how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

As much as a lot of us don't really consider these cars stockers, they are here to stay (well Fezell may have just moved the Stick 08 CJ's to superstock this morning). There has been a lot of bickering back and forth on here about whether they are good or bad for the sport, etc. I'd like to hear everyone's ideas on how to deal with them. Real Ideas, that NHRA may actually Listen to and/or implement. I'll throw 2 of my ideas out there (not solely mine, as they have been discussed.

1) FX classes
AA/FX 7.00-7.99lb 10.20 index
A/FX 8.00-8.99lb 10.60 index
B/FX 9.00-9.99lb 10.90 index
C/FX 10.00-10.99lb 11.20 index
D/FX 11.00-11.99lb 11.50 index

AA/FXA 7.00-7.99lb 10.20 index
A/FXA 8.00-8.99lb 10.60 index
B/FXA 9.00-9.99lb 10.90 index
C/FXA 10.00-10.99lb 11.20 index
D/FXA 11.00-11.99lb 11.50 index

2) take 10% hp OFF of every combo that fits AA-G except the factory cars.

I preffer option 1 (with some tweaking I'm sure), but doubt NHRA will add classes

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Dumb!

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Smart !

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Care to elaborate?

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Smart, concerning that they are really SS cars to begin with.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

I like the FX idea myself.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Do it now! Jim

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

nhra will do what they think is rite
not what we think is rite.

Hammer

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

I like option number 2 for AA-B/SA

But we do have a situation to deal with though. The 6.1 challengers are much closer to where they should be factor wise than the other DP/CJ combos out there.

Immediate HP adjustment for the 5.7, 5.9, and all Mustang blower cars must be done in order for option 2 to work properly.


There aren't any stock AA cars that can run with the AA CJ's. Not even the DP's can run that fast. The only thing you could get that fast would be possibly the 68 Darts/Cudas or 69 Vette.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Some of you guys that are on the band wagon for new classes....can't even run within two dimes of the same class car, same combination, as the fast guys. Tweak and maximize your stuff before worrying about everybody else.
Yes, the factors are screwed up....absolutely! But some of you aren't even close with some of your own combos. Just my opinion.....and whaaaah...if you don't like it!

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Sean, you're basically saying that the only people with a right to not like this are the fastest few in a class? that's like saying that only the wealthiest have the right to complain about a tax hike. Sure we're not one of the fastest A-AA cars out there (but no one else runs our same combo). Why in the hell should I go spend whatever it takes to find a few .10's when its not going to get me within .4 of the CJ's? We are constantly trying to go faster, and recently have had the reliability to test more and finally start learing what this thing wants, but the economy hasn't helped much lately. That's great, but there is no amount of money, or time, or effort that will make our combo (or any other for that matter) run with these factory cars, and they're just getting started. Hell a good running SS 427/425 may have a hard time with a new CJ heads up.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

You obviously didn't read my post all the way. I didn't bring up anything about the wealthy or the have not's. In a eliminator where everyone has the right to run whatever they want.....this is not the minorities fault that the majority cannot compete. It's NHRA's fault for screwing the majority right out of a competitive combo. But Chad, you answered your own question, why is it the minorities fault that your combo isn't the best it can be? I've seen Joe Sorensen's car outrun a Drag Pak in a headsup race with his spare stuff. If a person hasn't maximized his own equipment to be able to run with some Of the same "old stuff," then why should that competitor have a say in what to do with the new stuff.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

If you're talking about the race with Gaynor, word is that Gaynor spun, it was probably even posted here.

I have all the respect in the world for the Sorensons, and for DeArmond & McGlasson. But I'm not convinced that either of them can run 9.70 at B weight in 1000' air. I've seen a DP car get into the nine-seventies in 1000' of air in A, in bracket mode, with a lazy 60' time.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Sean, Your point is well taken , unfortunately the way the system is today --your only looking to run under the index far enough to qualify and then the bracket racing begins. Once in a awhile you run into a hitter in the class and go home early. Although it is a competitive sport a lot of gentlemen are not going to lose their house if they don"t cash. We all know the insanity of the investment. I don't believe the crying is for any individual but for what the nhra has done to the CLASS as a whole. Just my 2 cents----------John

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Sean, maybe you need to look at it from the other side of the fence too. Your 96 Camaro was one of the fastest E/SA cars in the country when you had it. Compared to all the combos. You set the record at 10.70ish years ago. Would be in D now at roughly the same weight. Let's be generous and give you .3 for finding more hp and other tweaks. So let's say you can go 10.40 in good air. Go to Indy and lose .1 minimum, so you could go 10.50 theoretically if you still had the car, which would be a great run!

BUT, you'd be a whole bulb behind Irvin Johns!!!

Not whining, just a little perspective. I know I can't run with anyone! *

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

I understand the comparison between old and new. I think it's been beaten to death on this forum for quite some time. I think Alan, you have also misread my posts. Can you personally, run a 50 to 65 in AA? Or a high 70 to mid 80 in A? I know Sorensen can.....I've seen it with my own two eyes. Until you can personally run that good, an opinion about the new cars being put into a different class is a moot point, that's all I'm saying. Once again, IMHO...that's all.
These posts are to be directed to he competition dept at NHRA, they're the ones that have allowed this joke to play out. NHRA needs to address the factor of these combos. D cars in the nines.....E cars runnin 10 flat....the racers should be happy the racers of these combos exploited the potential.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Chad has the best idea, but don't stop there STREAMLINE the classes you run now 1 motor 1 body. A 396 camaro runs B, 428 cj runs B, a 351 ford mustang runs F a 350 camaro runs F ect. ect. ajust weight to only get to min. of the 1class. Think of what class at indy would be to watch then. just my 2 cents
Dale

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

:rolleyes:


I didn't misread anything. No, our best pass in AA has been in the nine eighties. But then we don't spend too much time in air that is better than 2000 feet, either. We haven't had the car but a little over 4 1/2 years, we don't get to race a lot, and we haven't spent a ton of money, either. We buy parts, gas, oil, diesel, and pay our entry fees. I think that makes us entitled to an opinion and a voice.

I'll quote you here: :eek:

Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Saying that the only people who have a legitimate complaint about the new cars are the guys who have the fastest traditional cars is the same as saying those are the only cars that are affected. That's B.S., pure and simple, and you should know that. Everyone who gets beat in a heads up by a store bought car with an absurd HP factor has a legitimate complaint. Because most of the people who have those cars would never have gone out and spent that kind of money on a traditional car for Stock with a reasonable HP factor. In fact, the vast majority would not have bought those cars if they weren't guaranteed to beat any fast traditional car with relative ease. Many of them will come right out and say so.

The idea that we don't have a complain if we all don't go out and spend $50K to try to run with the new cars (that we can't hope to run with no matter what) is about as stupid as rewriting the rules to allow for letting them into Stock to begin with.:cool:

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Sean, I respectfully disagree with your opinion. I think anyone who has invested the time and money to build and run a car in AA-G has a dog in this fight. I have all the respect in the world for the Sorensen's as well, they truly have a handle on the 427/425 that no one else does. However that doesn't exempt the rest of us from having an opinion.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Your opinion is like my opinion, simply an opinion. But you don't see me on here rewriting the rulebook in lieu of having big block GT cars removed from GT/AA because I can't run with them. Those combos also have soft factors. My family and I work hard to try and even run with them.
Chad, making up scenarios to present to NHRA is not an opinion....it's a request. Request them to refactor or defactor the older combos, but once again, most that want change have not maximized their own combo. DEAD HORSE, but I'll keep saying it.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

I've requested to have our factor reduced several times over the years, haven't gotten it yet.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

The factory experimental class makes the most sense in my opinion to both the racers and the general non-racing public. There is nothing stock about these cars other than the body shell. None of these motors can be bought and registered on the street.

All in all, it is just the factories experimenting with motors and parts off the shelves to generate public interest to sell more cars. Nothing wrong with that, but they need to be a little smarter in their execution.

Let them run with the rest of the stockers. If they are not careful, they will end up with 5,000 lb stockers on 9 inch slicks. Talk about parts breakers.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Chad, I dont know if you know this or not, but the combo must have been run at a national event, within the review period, for a hp reduction to be considered. I didnt know this until a friend was told by the tech dept why his combo was on the sheet, but no hp change up or down was evident.

Wade

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

wade, I wonder if they count the Sportsnationals races? and, No, i hadn't heard that.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Since, in your view, the Sorensen's are one of the few people entitled to an opinion on this, what is their opinion? I don't know, but I doubt they would be too upset if they were put into their own class.

I do know one thing though, Hal Sorensen would like to congratulate the CJ and DP owners on all their hard work on the dyno. It's really starting to pay off.


-Toby

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

[QUOTE=Toby Lang;208143]Since, in your view, the Sorensen's are one of the few people entitled to opinion on this, what is their opinion? I don't know, but I doubt they would be too upset if they were put into their own class.

I do know one thing though, Hal Sorensen would like to congratulate the CJ and DP owners on all their hard work on the dyno. It's really starting to pay off.



I know , Hal has already congratulated me, albeit through another voice, not his own. But that's ok, a leopard can't change it's spots. Once again, I'll use the measuring stick, Sorensen's car has proven that a old car can compete. If NHRA would just get the factors a little closer, I don't think I would have shorted out computer terminals from all the seepage!

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
4312 P.B. Candies 2523 Bryan Phillips
E3 ****WINNER**** 0.325 10.219 132.44 0.002 10.718 104.65
E/SA Dial: 11.70 (+/-): -1.481 E/SA Dial: 11.70 (+/-): -0.982
Prior rounds:
E2 (M Truman ) 0.092 10.248 0.018 (F Maiolo ) 0.037 10.854 0.024
E1 (R West ) 0.050 10.233 0.033 (W Lent ) 0.015 10.891 0.111
Qualified: #7 10.399 -1.301 #55 10.827 -0.873
Heads up race and Phillips nails the tree to no avail. Candies has a 0.325 light and still wins by 27 feet.

Nice try Bryan! Glad you shut off early to ONLY go -.982 and avoid a trigger. Because YOU would probably be the one to get hp! Jeez....

Would Bryan's opinion count? #55 qualifier and -1.282 the old index....

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Maybe I've been living under a rock but I thought Sorenson's fastest run was a 9.75...at Mission. And what is your "magical number" someone has to run to be able to dare speak of the injustice of the new cars? Fezell has been in the 30's in 2,000 feet. That's pretty damn close to a half second off the pace. But again, maybe I'm wrong and he has been faster than that at an NHRA unfactored track.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Exactly, thanks for pointing this out Mark. A factor on a DP that is bogus.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

[QUOTE=Mark Faul;208209]Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
4312 P.B. Candies 2523 Bryan Phillips
E3 ****WINNER**** 0.325 10.219 132.44 0.002 10.718 104.65
E/SA Dial: 11.70 (+/-): -1.481 E/SA Dial: 11.70 (+/-): -0.982
Prior rounds:
E2 (M Truman ) 0.092 10.248 0.018 (F Maiolo ) 0.037 10.854 0.024
E1 (R West ) 0.050 10.233 0.033 (W Lent ) 0.015 10.891 0.111
Qualified: #7 10.399 -1.301 #55 10.827 -0.873
Heads up race and Phillips nails the tree to no avail. Candies has a 0.325 light and still wins by 27 feet.

Nice try Bryan! Glad you shut off early to ONLY go -.982 and avoid a


trigger. Because YOU would probably be the one to get hp! Jeez...



Would Bryan's opinion count? #55 qualifier and -1.282 the old

Another factor that needs to be addressed. Oh, wait, just stick him in another class.....how convenient. Do your job NHRA and fix the factor problem. Don't take the easy road like usual and just create another class. This is another reason I sold my '96 Camaro when I did.....right before the FI classes came out.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Most folks would disagree with your opinion. Those new cars are an anomaly with a built-in (high tech vs. old tech) advantage and you know it. Anyone who competes in the same eliminator with these high tech factory race cars has a right to complain about their unfair advantage!

M68

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

Just like that ill-named eliminator called Pro 'Stock.'

M68

P.S. Of course, not at the time of its inception and for about decade or so henceforth.

Re: how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......
 

I've been to Indy a few Times and have enjoyed it every time, but as far as Class racing in Stock and Super stock it was a complete heartbrake for the guys that have put years of time and money into thier cars only to have them de-valued and useless as a heads - up race car for the next few years in the upper classes, AA,A,B and C ! How can we ever run with a car first year out runs a 9.79 135mph in "C/SA" in bracket mode ? lets hit it with HP, put it in "A/SA" oh wait still to fast !!!!! These cars need to be in an F/X Class, CJ and DP so they can all run each other except for eliminations with us ! How fast will they run when all of the so called "bugs" are worked out ? Can't blame the car owners, no different than finding a good combo to run, makes even the Pontiac combo not look so good now ! Lol !!! only they knew to protect thier combo like most of us try to.