NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Let me get this straight..... If I read this right.... My combo:1976 dodge aspen 360
factory rated @ 160 hp NHRA factored 284 hp. Keep in mind: dished 8.0 to 1 pistons ,.423 lift hydraulic flat tappet cam, iron boat anchor heads with 1.88 1.60 valves ,60lb cast iron intake with a plastic carburetor and having to weigh 3578lbs is supposed to be the same as a 5.9 drag pack: 11.4 comp,.490 roller cam, 2.02 valves ROLLER ROCKERS! magnum heads (which are killers right out of the box), aluminum high rise intake and port injection.

BOTH RATED @ 284 HP!!!!!!!If you look @ mopar performance catalog the engine in the drag pack combo is rated at 390 hp @ 5300 rpm.

how on earth is this fair or even competitivly close?

Kenny Newsome 7709 h/sa what to do now?

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Does anyone know if Vaseline has a racing products division and do they pay contingencies?

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

dude, i just spit coke all over my laptop.......................that's hilarious

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

I think "KY" pays !

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

I don't want what KY or Vaseline is paying..:D

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Only if you send in the warranty card.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

I have had that happen to myself a couple of times. Many of the members around here are too funny not to take precautions when reading their stuff. :D

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Bruce -- Contract ??? I know you live in tobacco country but you just have to stop smoking that weed .................one of us has to keep their sense of humor ! ! !

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Bruce - Small computer glitch -- see post number eight ..............

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

The nhra executives are dumb about some things. The OEM's probably bent them over on these deals and the money has been spent already. Now nhra looks like the laughing stock of the American Auto Sports Industry.

I'm sure the NASCAR guys are snickering at the # 2 Auto Sports Retailing Company.

The OEM guys see this nightmare from a completely different view point. This is strictly a marketing scam for them. They don't care what kind of problems they leave behind for the racers. They are here to plunder the classes and then they will leave as quickly as they appeared. This is no long term committment by the OEM's. nhra knows this as well and that makes this fraud even more egregious.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

I am not saying it is right or fair, but I totaly disagree. Win, look good or go fast on Sunday and sell cars on Monday. I think it has been a great advertising move by Ford and Chrysler. I think both of these cars are selling and the racers building them are creating very neat race cars. Not all DP's were fast, Garlits, Pustelny and Lee did not make the cut. Anyone that reads this forum is getting a lot of advertisement for the new cars as much as you guys write about them. By this time next year it will be another car and another story ..

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

[QUOTE=Bruce Noland;209002 This is strictly a marketing scam for them. They don't care what kind of problems they leave behind for the racers. They are here to plunder the classes and then they will leave as quickly as they appeared. This is no long term committment by the OEM's. nhra knows this as well and that makes this fraud even more egregious.[/QUOTE]

Bruce - Marketing scam ? Not hardly as they are selling cars and at the end of the day that's the business they (both Ford and Chrysler ) are in .As for a long term commitment they (Ford) signed up to be the "Official Car " for several years ..............And I really don't think they're going to disappear in a year or two .

You and I must be getting our info from separate planets .............And yes , I'll agree the HP's are wrong .

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

You totally disagree and then you agree that it's been a great marketing scheme for the OEMs. ??? Another car next year? Let's see what is left? The Minicooper?

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Whatever you say Bruce ...

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Then the Minicooper it is. Let's all petition nhra to get a triple turbocharged Minicooper in the Sheets by next Indy. We'll have to take up a serious collection but we can get it done if we raise enough money.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Jack, so we agree the OEM's are marketing the heck out of this deal. Can you please provide us with a copy of the contract between the OEM's and nhra? Frankly, I don't think you know anymore about this mess than we do.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

For the 47th time Jack, I don't do booze or drugs. The weed thing is just plain old. You need to come up with something new..

Your posts about nhra policies sound so authortative at times that it may lead the casual reader to believe that you actually had some inside knowledge on a particular issue. I like the sense of humor thing. Keep on smiling because we're all in the same boat, that is, for as long as it stays afloat.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Sorry, Posts are still out of order on some threads. I know that people are working on the problem.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

How about "quit drinking your own bath water" Eh ! Nothing meant here.....It just happened to pop into this old brain when I read the post.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Chuck are you trying to say if you were at Indy in G/sa you would enjoy seeing a mid 10 second run next to you in class, or eliminations???

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

One thing I can see is NHRA followed their own rules as far as the AHFS goes.
I commend them on that.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

But Art, can you commend them on making hundreds of thousands of dollars-worth of scienced-out race cars OBSOLETE with the stroke of a pen?

If you can, educate me as to how this benefits the rank-and-file racer. You know; the guys who pay the bills...

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

If they are going to make a stroke with a pen and change things........why not get rid of "heads-up runs during eliminations" since the class designation doesn't seem to matter. Yes, you might get blown out in class run-offs but you could still crush them in eliminations.

Make the National events, ALL RUN. It adds a round...big deal. At least they haven't started first and second round buy-backs....yet.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

if I wanted to do that, I'd sell the stockers and have a couple of really nice dragsters...................just like everyone else

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Because its supposed to be a performanced based eliminator. With out a chance of heads up you may as well put PRO on the window and save a bunch of work. I bet you would like that.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Nothing wrong with heads up elimination I have a slower class stocker and by no means the fastest. I cannot afford to spend endless money to go fast or try to be the fastest. In my case i am probably on the lower lower half of slowest in my class. never the less i still enjoy running stock. I run it as i can afford it and try to go with in mind to have fun, . If i get beat on a heads up run (so far i have been lucky enough not to have one yet) so be it as long as the car that beat me is legal. I have moved up or down a class to avoid a possible heads up and will continue to if posssible. Do like IHRA and put the new cars in a class of their own and let them dook it out. I had a dream to one day be able to have a class car. That dream has come true,Now when i win the lottery LOOK OUT all you 283 combos i'm a comming. If i can't be faster then i'll just buy the fastest one.lol

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

I agree Danny.....Thats the same line of thinking that my friend Don Dimler has who used to own the K/CM 65 Plymouth and I have about this stuff. You go to these things to have FUN and enjoy being with friends who have the same interests. If you won every race your still never going to get rich and you need to get beat to keep it interesting. To many racers place such an importance of being the baddest dude in the valley and sometimes it takes the fun away from what you enjoy to do and money out of your pocket. Tell Hank I said hello if he is there. Have a safe trip and dont work to hard.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

No, not the Mini but Chrysler/Fiat has dropped the PT Cruiser and will field ProStock Fiat 500's next year.......already got my order in!

JimR

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

I found top secret video of the first Pro Stock Chrysler/ Fiat 500 completed at RJ Race Cars, to be run next year. Rumor has it this is Larry Morgan at the wheel, lured back from Ford, driving in this video! Jim

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vid...6?q=fiat%20500

http://ecomodder.com/blog/wp-content...-500-photo.jpg

.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

What I am saying in my particular case is 10 years of my racing life and thousands of dollars of my hard earned cash has been rendered usless by a bogus hp factor bought and paid for by mopar from the prostitutes @ NHRA! I am not being brand prejudice I drive mopar but to let that abomination of the class get to run me and my combo heads up is tragedy! I am not comparing a cobra jet to a max wedge or a 427 camaro to a new hemi but this a 5.9 magnum (still a 360) to a 360 iron head small block both rated @ 284 hp!NHRA you mean to tell me those engines are EQUAL!!!!!! Come on you morons even you idiots can see that the magnum has roller rockers ,roller cam, highrise aluminum intake,higher compression plus fuel injection and its the same hp????? Art how would you feel if mopar created a new neon combo supercharged to run against you heads up but the turn key car cost 60k and 10 people showed up at indy to take your class trophy with them. You would be PISSED OFF! but hey right now this does not affect you right? to bad for those of us who fell in the wrong catagory...go buy or build a new car right? thats what NHRA would have us do! This is just wrong anyway youlook at it!

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Obsolete? I don't think so. If you build a SS/GS car and I can run a second faster than you is that car obsolete? In 1981 when they got rid of Modified that was close to Obsolete, but even they had Comp to run.
They way it benifits the rank and file racer was they followed there own rules, So maybe you can expect them to do that?

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Many of us have been the recipients of bogus hits from nhra, including Art. Everyone knows that nhra follows it's own rules only when it is convenient for them. Art knows this as well, so, he's just out here having a little fun. He's twisting the knife a little bit because no one would listen when he took a bogus hit.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Bruce you are partly right. NHRA tried to screw me a couple of times. And thankfully they missed the mark.
But I'm not twisting the knife as you put it.
The one thing that has bothered me about stock since 1980 is the heads. There is no way a big block camaro can run in the 9's with stock heads. Heads that pass tech are not necessarilly stock heads.
They pass tech and are deemed legal just like the DP's and CJ's
When I was face to face with that kind of headwork I chose to quit. But at the time I didn't live in a glass house. Even though I never threw stones.
In the 90's when I came back with the turbo car it was sort of you make your air one way (heads) and I'll make it another (turbo) But I was badmouthed on here by some as a no-talent jerk. Now the only turbo I have at the track is in my Ford F 550. And people still think I'd be lost without power adders.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Bruce -How long did it take to get 124hp put on his combo ? It wasn't done overnight as you are suggesting it to be done today on this DragPak .....the combo we're talking about has got HP twice recently and with some good weather National events coming up will likely get more.......And yes , I really feel the FX classes are on the horizon ...........but as you say - what do I know - or who ? ?

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Kenny - By no means is your combo equal - but just for a second lets look at this from a different angle - your 360cid / 284 hp was once 160 hp -- was that fair ? Over the years it grew 124 hp -- and not overnight i'm sure -- let the system work awhile like it did on your combo ...........

PS-If you feel H/SA is no fun you 'otta try E/SA - now there is a challenge ( no pun intended) .Trust me I feel your pain ..........

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Jack,
All combinations were underfactored in those days and they all had their horsepower increased at about the same rate. Do you think this man should wait 10 years for these new combinations to be fairly factored? And why should he have to wait? Everyone agrees these combinations are not factored correctly.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Its the difference between a "Net" rating and a "Gross" rating. The 360 your are refering to never was classed and ran at the original factory HP as many other later combos. They have all been "Enhanced" by NHRA.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

If you feel the pain as you stated then speak up you don't work for NHRA any more if more of you guy's would speak up to NHRA you would be better off!

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

I was not referencing any particular combination or adjustment formula. But I think we agree.

Re: NHRA: are you really that blind or just stupid?
 

Overnight? I suggested that all the combinations were fairly close in the old days and the HP was brought along in a mostly fair manner to ensure honest competition. There would ne no need for "overnight" adjustments had nhra done the right thing to begin with.