Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

This is a serious question, not wanting to jest with someone saying I'm a 'CJ' hater or a Ford hater.

I don't want to get involved in the 'is it underrated or isn't it' bitch fest. That's a waste of time, seriously debating the question is asinine at best. The car is obviously padded big time thanks to the big checks the Ford now sends the NHRA.

What I would like an answer to is... What is Ford, and what are the racers getting out of this?

I could completely understand if you actually built a better mousetrap, you would have every right to feel triumphat.

But seriously, just buying a car that literally makes all others obsolete, simply because of a bogus HP rating..... how is that enjoyable?

Would you go to a water fight with a nuclear weapon?

Do you really think you have earned or deserve the performance, wins and records that the CJ now has? Do you think they are warranted?

Do you enjoy wiping out the competition with the single signing of a check? How do you feel when you look at you trophy?

I'm sure there will be lots of drama and flaming, but I'll be skipping over that looking for an honest answer.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

I would also like to extend this question to anyone running a Challenger in E or F.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

I think this is a loaded question.

If I had the money.. for sure I would buy one. If you can't afford one.. sorry about you luck. If it means they can win and it's legal under the current rules.. I don't see any problem with it.

To ask if it is fun.. being at the top of the qualifying chart would definitely be fun.. having my picture all over the net.. that's fun too. Being in National Dragster would also be fun.

They aren't cheating.. it's perfectly legal. They just happen to have more money than the rest of us..

These cars are expensive.. to say it isn't fair that people with money qualified better.. is sad.

It's almost like the welfare entitlement many feel.. that everyone should be equal and have equal benefits. People complain that they shouldn't have to work for what they get.. it should be given to them.

Life isn't fair. life is what you make of it.. same with racing. There is no entitlement in racing either.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

I'm not complaining about not having them.

You are completely missing the point. Which is that every single one of these vicotires has an asterisk next to it. I'm just trying to find out of the people driving these cars realize that.

Honestly, If I had money to just throw away.... I would buy a CJ and run it ALL OUT and factor it to hell and back.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Sean, how much do you think it will cost building a competitive AA, A, B or C Stocker that is not a CJ or DP?

A competitive car for the higher classes, built from scratch in today's dollars, can cost almost as much as a CJ or DP by the time you are done with building the car and doing all the R&D.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

My opinion. There is NO asterisk by John Calverts win at the Winternats. Why should there be. He has done it before and he will do it again. CJ, Dragpak or the Ole Stang. The factors are wrong, but to think that people build cars for the joy of qualifying low or not at all, or that they don't pick cars with an advantage is also wrong. Granted, some advantages are larger than others. How does Voth feel pulling his Monte up beside a Cobalt for class. Wonder if Cobalts should have an asterisk too? No.
Again, the factors are wrong but NO asterisk is by wins of these cars because they are LEGAL if built to the rules.
Just because you don't like the way things are doesn't put an asterisk anywhere.
Every winner has an advantage or every race would be a dead heat.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

This is funny. It's like the people left on the deck of the Titanic arguing wetheth they were First or Third Class passangers. At this point in time it doesn'y matter. 99 cars at Englishtown may seem like a high car count to some but it wasn't long ago when you had to qualify to get in. Where's the other 30 or so cars in stock that used to show up? Looking at the NA Ford, You can't blame a guy for wanting a latemodel roller cam smallblock with a huge throttle body and a powerglide (c-2) sounds like a pretty good bracket combo. Maybe NHRA is looking for someone to pay the fees for the Nostalgia progrm and will move all of the Antiques into Nostalgia Stock and Superstock and run them there.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

It's true: The drivers/car owners aren't cheating.

The CJ's & DragPaks *are* the entitlement. They require money, but they haven't been flogged, let alone flogged for decades.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

You are right just look at Div3 it was not unuaual for 120 to 140 stockers and close to the same amount for stock. It lloks like to me that this Div has taken a even bigger hit than some of the others.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Sure looks like know one wants to answer this question.What do you guys think the value of John Calverts A/S Fairlane?

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Maybe we should just all go race PT Cruisers for a few years until the CJ's and DP's have there factors corrected.
I think we will be seeing alot more B/SA cars next year.....................

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

If I were looking at building a top of the line A-B-C Stocker and no CJ/DP, I would look at a $75K budget. Sure it could be done cheaper but a popular body (Camaro, Mustang, Mopar) can cost a minimum of $10K as a buy in and then you have your restoration cost. Personally, I would buy a new body from Dynacorn, even with their fitment issues. That's $15K right there.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

The problem is that it is not competitive against a Cobra Jet or Drag Pak even if you spent twice the amount. The Cobra Jets and Drag Paks start out with significant advantages that any other combination cannot overcome without larger runner volumes, larger throttle bodies, larger valves, greater lobe lift, and or power adders. Plus the deep pocket R&D of the manufacturer.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Jeff you would be buying a car. That was never on a showroom floor. And doesen't have a vin# for the year/model claimed.
According to some on here you shouldn't be allowed to run it.
Oops, Nevermind, it's a GM

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Why don't you build a Neon for SS like me.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

OK, sense the supporters of these cars keep coming back to say it's time to purchase these new cars, lets take a look at that idea. Lets say there are about 1,000 stock racers in north america and all the sudden half of them fall into a bucket of money and can buy one, well now we have another problem. There aren't enough cars and parts produced to build some of them, now that is why they are limited production and should be in super stock period.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

But I already have a 1988 Shadow and a 1993 Eagle Talon waiting in the back yard, LOL.
I do plan on asking you for some advice in the near future though...

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

John calvert winning the Sunday eliminator (read: bracket race) definitely should not have asterisk. Any heads up wins or lcass wins on the other hand.....

Not one person has given a serious attempt at answering this question, because they know I'm right.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

How many people are gonna or want to pay to watch a yard full of just Mustangs and Challenger go down the track? Maybe Ford will come up with another paper tiger like a 428 powered pick ups/suvs that can fit into the H through T stock classes. Hey now you're talking!!
Oh yeah, sell 'em on Monday!!
Until they find out they can't actually buy one to drive on the street.
What a bunch of malarkey.

JC

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

'Naw

Not padded. Ford supplied the specs and NHRA accepted them.

Ford: Marketing
Racers: Their money's worth on their investment

Yep.

It does not make others obsolete; they end controlling a specific class. Again, the HP factors were submitted and NHRA accepted them. Blame NHRA.

Quite a disparity, but funny

They earned them because they were done with approved cars in the classification guide. Warranted? They were legal. BTW...do you wnat Sean Cour to return his trophy?

I responded earlier.

Here they are!!!

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Send in the clowns.Oh,they're already here.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

You're here, that's most of them. Where's Ed Obrien......

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Running the AHFS in Glendora and getting the last laugh! :D

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

The economy has been and continues to be in a hole. The midwest was hit hard by job losses...Div 3 = midwest.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

That's right I'm a clown.And I laugh alot.But you're a poopy face.You cry and while a lot.
What will be you're next agenda,when the new cars become AFX'ers?
I know:The other cars have an aerodynamic advantage over my flower car.Boo hoo hoo.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

I do have an agenda Ed. It's to see stock eliminator to continue to he healthy and GROW. Which it is not doing right now. If I see things which I believe to be bad for the class as a whole, than you damn well better believe I will be on here talking about it.

Most of the people on this board have been doing this for a long time, I WANT TO BE ABLE to do this for a long time, and not see the class whither and die. Which it has been on it's way to doing for the last few years.

If that makes me an asshole, a winer, a dick or whatever other name you'd like to call me, than I'm going to be the biggest asshole I can possibly be.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Whither and die?

More S/SS cars at indy this year then in the past five years
They just added 20 spots in stk for the keystones and it's was full in three days.

Once again I see mostly people that don’t race or race very little are doing most of the crying.

You all forgot one very important point. NHRA likes these new cars. which means there not going anywhere.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Yes, and the additional cars at Indy were made up of Cobra Jets and Drag Paks. You come across at the one that is crying because I don't see anyone refer to the new cars being eliminated other than you.

It has been very consistent by people that race more than you and the ones that may race less than you that these cars just be classified properly. It has also been said by many including myself that we are very pleased at the effort and money that the factories are putting into the sport with these cars. They just pulled a fast one over on the NHRA and the NHRA allowed it.

We are just calling them out on it.

Don

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Sounds like what Obama did to the people who voted for him. Gosh, I hope I'm politically correct.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Yeah, it was Ford's "No Crate Motor Left Behind" program and Dodge's "1,000 Points of Modified Engine Parts" offering.

Wait, I may have cornfused the political parties. :eek:

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

fixed

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Sean

Actually it(the class) has grown by potentialy 250 cars in the last two years! Without these FR500CJ's and Drag Paks, I doubt there would be that much gain in numbers.

Maybe NHRA is watching and saving the class from extinction?


Peter

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

for every one of these BS cars they gain, they will likely lose 2 (either those who park their cars, or those who don't get involved)

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Potentially 250 cars? And how many actually? I'd like to see these numbers, and the source for them, please.

It certainly did not appear to be headed for extinction in 2008. It had its problems, but extinction was not imminent.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Alan

potentially = delivered. Being raced may be another story!

2009 Dodge Challenger Drag Paks 100
2010 Dodge Challenger Drag Paks 50

2008 FR500 CJs 50
2010 FR500 CJs 50

I'm sure you can/may easily look it up for your own interest?

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

Just a few question/observations:
How many of the Mustangs are actually in competition? Bet many are sitting in collectors garages. Since the Challengers are not sold as complete cars, do they have any collector value? (Remember the last time you drove down a street and there was a Daytona or Superbird rear wing visable in an open garage door? Does a Challenger on trailer tires get your heart thumping the same?) Think you will find it is just like the younger racers, where a lot have very wealthy parents running multiple cars.

I no longer tell any of my friends the $$ involved in racing. Many choked on the cost of just tagging along as crew. Engines and transmission are out of their realm. And $90,000 for a car? (plus 12% sales tax here...) One almost passed out seeing Arnie Martel's nice rig! Could you purchase one of these cars for $90,000 and run it without spending even more $$ on it?

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

I know how many have been built and sold. I'm sure NitroJoe can tell us how many are being raced, I'm betting it is not 250.

The point is, not all of those cars will be raced, and all of them that are raced do not add up to growth in the car count. Some replaced cars already being raced, some people are parking older cars and retiring, and some of the older cars that are being sold will end up either not being raced at all, or raced a few times at best and then parked again, and they won't sell well, either.

Potentially, all the Dynacorn reproduction cars sold are new race cars, but actually the vast majority of them are not. And those that are often replace other cars that are just parked.

Re: Question to Ford, CJ Owners and supporters
 

PC? I don't know...Admin threatened to ban me for life last week for the same type of comment!