Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

I have a Nash trans with Liberty face-tooth gears. Heavy, but bulletproof. However, every once in a while, the thing will not go into 3rd gear going down track. It goes in third around the pits and on the return road but under 8000rpm load it won't. It does it randomly and it did it in 2nd round last night. It is not a clutchless trans and I have to use the clutch to shift so I put more pedal travel (We are at about .080 air gap) and I even tried granny shifting it in 3rd round last night and it still wouldn't go in. We've taken the trans apart a few times now and found nothing.. Everything still looks brand new. No problems going in 2nd or 4th ever.

Could the clutch be getting too hot in the burnout that it is not fully releasing? But why is 2nd and 4th never a problem?

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Go to this web site. Its for stick cars. A lot of the guys over there are running that trans. Look under tranny tech.
http://www.umtrnorth.com/Forums/default.asp

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Have you checked the adjustment on the shifter stops?

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Shawn I haven't checked the stops because it seems to go in 3rd fine everywhere but on the track. I'll double check it though.

It's weird though because after I miss third, I quickly get off the throttle not to over-rev but even with the clutch still pressed all the way in and me coasting I still can't jab it in 3rd for those few seconds. I have to put it in 4th or neutral.

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

check the detent in the trans its a steel ball with a spring,you mite have a bind from 2-3 and also the case holes for the shift forks ,as those transmission get older the holes start to elongate and that affects the detents ,,i used to run one and the holes where an issue,should have re bushed the case but sold the trans ,,pull the trans out and mount the shifter on the trans a try to duplicate the the shift but you will need an assitant to turn the input shaft ,you mite find something there gmonde

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

If it is ONLY 3rd gear then Somewhere along the way you either missed a shift or ground a gear trying to get into reverse or it is time to service the trans and burred up either the slider or the gear or both on the mainshaft---a few things to look at also

#1--Double check your shifter arm bushings if you use them make sure they are not cracked or broken in any way you would better off with heim joints on the shifter rods anyway Hurst bushings or Mr Gasket used to work the best---change them FREQUENTLY

#2----Take the trans apart and look at the sliders or the main shaft gears if there are ANY burrs on the teeth it will not shift at hi RPM--

#3 if there are any burrs take a Dremel or carbide burr and dress them make sure there are NOT ANY burrs on the slider or the gear

#4---Have you removed the dogs in the gears if there are any in your trans?

#5 --check the shifter alignment pin and adjust the shifter so that that pin slides in and out FREELY with ABSOLUTELY no movement of the shifter arms while doing this

#6--- look at both of the holes in the shifter arms make sure they are not wallowed out and make sure you are using a locknut to attach the arm to the shifter fork stud

#7 air gap is not that important unless you are using a real aggressive clutch disc that gets more aggressive the hotter it gets then the disc will not fully release cuz it got hot and closed up the air gap

these are a few suggestion and not necessarily in this order but from my experience things that need to be checked

My guess is that the slider or the teeth on the gear need to be dressed!!!!Thats the first thing I would look at--if not that then look at the other things next --- good luck let me know what you find out-- I probably made 300-400 passes with a DNE2 trans and from trial and error learned how to make these things live and work well---Comp 387

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Look at your hub, also. You might have a problem there. If so, turn you're slider one tooth and, the hub one tooth, and make sure it slides freely.

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Yes I forgot to mention the hub!!! The ends of the teeth should almost be just slightly rounded like this ) not like this ] if you understand what I am saying---also make sure that both the slider and the hub have no burrs on them try to slide them together and if you do feel ANY burrs they will probably be a cause for your problem--comp

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

I'd say slider/dog problem,but a few more things has bellhousing been checked for alignment? My brother had one out he told me drive it maybe I can't drive,I can't remember if it was 3 or 4 or both but it was like you hit a wall with shifter would not go wide open or even the shameful Granny shift. BTW the term Granny Shift offended my Granny's,God rest their souls. His bell was like .050'' out and was way out of parallel we had to find guy with blanchard grinder big enough to true it up and we centered it.After that would fall in gear,still will need to service sliders/dogs once they are wore they will actually push apart instead of engaging.
Also make sure pilot bearing is good input out of line from bell or loose pilot bearing will let input move and keep from shifting.usaully misalignment high gear will be the worst but if you can't get high it's hard to tell.
You need to service trans and check all the things that have been mentioned in all these posts so you got it right and will not problems shortly.
If you have problem with pilot bearing the only type I have seen that will last is bearing w/sleeve on od that fits in the big hole where,please excuse my language,but i'm just gonna say it ''torque converter'' centers,well anyway on chevrolet.Jerico sells them
I had slider getting bad in Nash one time if you did'nt hold in would jump out of third when jumped out kept pushing when it bumped high side would go back in and most people never knew anything happened.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Forget to also mention input shaft and checking the runout on the bellhousing but I would of thought he had already done that---pilot bearing to use is from GM 6.2 diesel its a roller bearing same one Moroso sells also offset dowel pins from Moroso for bellhousing lets you move it where ya want it---you'll need a dial indicator with a magnetic mount on the crankshaft to check run out--get used to taking this trans out/apart only way you will solve your problems----after ya take it out and BEFORE ya split the case make sure you install the nuts on the shifter forks otherwise they come out and you'll need a long skinny screwdriver to get the detent springs and balls back in---ya gotta service these things every 40-50 runs check the sliders -hubs-dogs- grind the teeth--- check reverse idler gear also if my memory is correct 3rd gear runs the reverse gear so if ya ground it trying to get into reverse ya mighta screwed up 3rd too--Comp 387

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

I have a Jerico but last year mine did the exact same thing. Every 2 or 3 runs it wouldn't go into 3rd gear. The bellhousing was out of alignment. Fixed that and no problems since(besides the engine last weekend)

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Hey guys thank you so much for your input. You guys definitely have me thinking because the last two times we put the trans in, it was kind of tough and it wouldn't go in easy, as if something was possibly out of alignment. I had a great bellhousing (quarter inch steel made in USA) from years ago but the rules state you need a new one every 5 years (I don't understand why, and all made in China now).

I am getting to the bottom of this over the weekend. I will also check all the other things FED and some others recommended.

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

I can't help myself, but I guess I'm glad I'm not a real man. Wow, what a list of potential problems....
ss/nA

I know I'll be sorry for posting this

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Regarding trying to put the trans in reverse from a forward gear ya might hafta let the clutch pedal up from the floor just a hair NOT TOO MUCH to get the shifter lever to move into reverse ---You'll feel it if you know what I mean otherwise your gonna buzz the gear and it probably is not gonna go into third next time. When you shift the forward gears pull the lever QUICKLY ram it into gear this helps too. Once ya learn all the little things/tricks about this trans they will really will work good ya just hafta do your maintainance on them otherwise you're gonna have problems.. See if ya can get 12 point bolts to mount the trans to the bell and 12 point nuts for the tail case to main case cuz of the tight space there it makes it easier to get a socket in/on them. --- Comp 387

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Did you look at the Quick Time bellhousing. It is made in America, SFI certified and a great piece.

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

While you've got it apart, take the clutch out and make sure there's enough clearance between the clutch disc hub and the flywheel bolts.
I once had a worn clutch disc that just barely touched the flywheel bolts and caused the same problem. I never missed a shift unless something was wrong and one weekend at Bowling Green I missed the 3rd gear shift 3 times. That disc was the cause.

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Took the trans and clutch out yesterday and the pilot bushing just fell out. It was worn and burred up which leads me to believe something is not lining up correctly. I could feel the vibration coming up through the shifter handle on the last few runs and that could be the main reason it wouldn't go in third gear. My trans still looks good.

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Since Dueces wild called it I didn't respond but yes a misaligned bellhousing can cause exactly the issues you're having. You need to check the alignment and correct it before reassembly, Lakewood makes a nice set of offset dowels that make it easy to zero a bellhousing in it's not hard to do just need a magnetic base dial indicator. You can probably download the directions off their web site. Joe

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

Bobby, are you using a bronze pilot bushing, or a roller or needle bearing? When I first switched my 428 FE Ford bracket car from a C6 to a Jerico and McLeod Soft Lok clutch, after a short period of time, I pulled the clutch out, and found the stock style bronze pilot bushing very badly worn, with the hole enlongated. I figured that the sintered iron dust from the clutch disc was chewing up the bushing, like valve grinding compound. I replaced the bronze bushing with a ball bearing, and that worked fine for a few years, until I found out that the pilot bearing had walked out of the crank, which allowed the input to move up & down excessively. The next pilot bearing I installed into the crank with Loctite, and have had no further issues. On my 302 Stocker, also a Jerico/Soft Lok, I use the factory Ford needle bearing pilot, 7 seasons, not a problem.

Re: Doug Nash 4+1 Help
 

The lazy mans way to line up a bellhousing, is get every size off set dowel, pull factory dowels out, take an input shaft, slide a trans collar over it, slide it through the clutch with bellhousing loose, into pilot bearing, make sure collar enters the snug part of the bellhousing, install the proper off set dowels, and the trans will slide in and out like its not even there. it's a poor mans version of the browell tool, which we now use. Most pilot bearing problems result from misaligned trans. Hope this helps.