A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Lots of discussion about the new cars and mumbling of new classes and some cars taken back off the" for sale" market. Does that mean its officially "Solved" ? Is FX a go for 2011 for these cars?

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Dick something better happen or a lot of higher class stockers will sit or sell as some have already. Cars are for sale all over the place and not many are selling, I wonder why. Nhra mite gain 25 or so new cars but add together AA, A, B, C, D and E and the total loss in nhra's pocket could be large to say the least. The ball is in there court. The option may be run IHRA next year for some.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

IHRA already has aa/fi and bb/fi and are thinking about adding a cc/fi and a dd/fi. That should take care of the new car so called domination due to hp ratings. Then they can have at it amongst themselves.THIS WOULD BE FUN TO WATCH ALSO.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Why not have a class just for those cars? Make it like the Darts and Barracuda's in Super Stock. Have a shootout during Indy to put these cars on display, and have the manufacturers post money to make this possible. Wouldn't this solve the problem for everyone?

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

How many guys are actually affected by the new cars?

Truth is, not all that many.

But there is an overwhelming send of fairness expressed here, in spite of the fact that it actually only affects a few, but emotionally expressed by those, who are all for fairness, unless of course, it is they who hold the competitive edge.

And if they all quit, isn't it really because the new cars have taken away a lot of their personal playgrounds when they, some of the guys complaining here about the new cars, who themselves have been beating up on the all the carbureted cars with fuel injected cars, and don't want to give that up.

Haven't most just have picked a place where they can win or dominate, and have no regard for the other guys in those classes, who may also have been racing for ages, but still haven't found their magic combo. This is drag racing.

All this nonsense about the new cars driving out the old iron is just that, it is nonsense! If guys are tired of racing, then by all means, retire. It may be time for some of you to do just that. But if guys care so little about racing, that they will only show up if they have their own personal edge, then the truth is that they probably aren't any more good for the sport, than you claim for the new cars to be.

How many new cars, especially the badly bashed Challengers, will there be in Las Vegas, Three, four, or maybe just two? And guys are going to whine that they will give up racing, or simply not go to that particular race, because of the Challengers, when only a couple of classes may be affected? Or, isn't it really concerns due to the economy, and uncertain personal finances that is keepinga lot of them away? We didn't go to a couple of races for that same reason; money...

Having said all of that, I understand that you don't want to get beat. Neither do I. You want a competitive edge, and we have one. When I bought the car, I didn't even know what class we would run in, because the horsepower wasn't set yet. So don't blame the car owners, because having bought one, and spent a ton of money and a lot of time to become competitive, DP owners have as much right to run these car as anyone else has to run any others ones.

Also I didn't twist the NHRA's arm, and neither did anyone else? They did what they thought was good for the sport. You don't agree with them, and that is fine, but why continue to attack the car owners?

Bashing the cars, the owners, factory programs, and the NHRA with insults and unfounded claims of all kinds hardly seems like a productive approach. But if it makes you feel big, or somehow serves your self-serving sense of fairness, then go ahead.

Will it actually make a change? Probably no more than rational discussions, and factual presentations would have made, but that ship has sailed. But frankly, I think it is counter productive. Do you really think that calling the NHRA names, and assaulting their intention, while attacking their character is the right thing to do? Where is your sense of fairness there? Because those attacks simply aren't fair! And then you expect them to roll over in your direction. Good luck with getting everything you want.

I would welcome separate classes, but the truth is that if we do get them, then we will have to listen to all the whining about us having our own classes, and how it isn't fair for the guys running 40 year old iron, who may want their own class too. Oh well. Apparently there is nowhere we can win except on the track.

See you on the track.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

That'd be cool. A Drag Pak shootout race at Indy.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

I have misplaced my 2009 end of the year stats, to check total car counts. But, if you add up every Stocker that competes in a class with the DP and CJ cars (AA through H Stock), I would bet big money it is several hundred. And many more when you add in the Super Stock racers. And, yes, people ARE selling and/or parking their cars until NHRA fixes this problem. Two racers, both of whom can easily qualify at Indy and had a good chance of winning Class, told me they stayed home because of this, they ''weren't going to bring a water pistol to a tank fight''. And, until NHRA either 1) fixes the HP issues and/or 2) puts the new cars in their own class(es), there will be more racers joining them on the sidelines.

I've said several times, the new cars are cool. And, if it brings in new cars, drivers, fans, media attention, etc to out sport, it's a great thing. But not at the expense of hundreds of good drivers/cars.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Trust me, no one would whine if they were to put these factory experimental cars in their own class where they belong.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Would you guys please post the stockers that are for sale.Sorry,I just do not see them?

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

My B/SA '70 Camaro which can only run 10.30

This will be back to normal next year

I am not selling mine because of these cars - well not exactly

I want something new - like a V10 Drag Pak

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

I see nine (9) cars, that can run in the classes affected by the new cars, for sale on the first two pages of classifieds here on Classracer. Whether or not the CJ/DP dillema is the reason, well, only they can answer that.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

David with all due respect, you don't have a clue. This affects all of us, especially if you race a car that runs from AA through H. For someone who has been racing for less than a year you seem to know a lot. The fact is that these cars don't resemble any previous stock eliminator cars. They are current body styles with motors made up of parts from Ford and Chrysler's high performance parts books and have no relation to what's being sold to the public. NHRA and these two manufacturers have deliberately done this to take advantage of racers who have spent a lot of time and money on their race cars. One of NHRA's missions according to their 2008 Tax return on page 2 is and I quote; "The association establishes rules that govern competition including rules and standards that are designed to enhance safety in the sport as well as promote fair competition."

I would say that allowing these cars into traditional stock classes has had the opposite effect. It has been anti competitive and favors one group of racers over another.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Kind of sounds like little children. I'm going to take my bat and ball and go home and oh by the way " I'm going to pout ". Pleasssssssse give me a break!

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

David, your first mistake is that only the higher classes are affected. All cars AA through H are affected. Second yes it is difficult to determine how many racers are staying home or selling their cars but just by the overwheming number of racers that have expressed their views on this site it is apparent that we have a problem. Why can't you understand that all we ask is for them to be placed in their own class just as the FI cars were. Very few people have blamed the new car owners. Yes most of us would take advantage of the situation if we could afford to. However I find it offensive that you and the other new cars owners won't support our position. It makes it appear that you are only interested in your own welfare and that you desire an unfair advantage at our expense.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Greg you said it best about who it affects.
New Hemi Guy & FECARMAM must not live on this planet
to think the way they do!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hammer

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Your right. Maybe I'm not on your planet. Some planets are so far out that there almost back in.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

It is interesting you made this statement as post #5 of this thread. I read post #'s 1-4 below you and am perplexed to read anything in these prior posts that even hints as being "bashing", "insulting", or any "unfounded claims". It leads me to believe you have now formulated a standard answer that you cut / paste from your "Defend Challenger File".

And Greg Hilll said it best with his reminder of NHRA's mission:
"The association establishes rules that govern competition including rules and standards that are designed to enhance safety in the sport as well as promote fair competition."

"Fair competition" in the eyes of your detractors would be classifying vehicles that race in the sport equally amongst those they compete with. For nearly 50 years, the Stock Eliminator class has been entirely inclusive of factory assembly line produced vehicles (some vehicles have received the benefit of off-sight development & / or reconstruction, i.e., the 1969-1970 Boss 429 as one example) yet all shared one commonality; they were street legal vehicles produced and distributed for public usage on public roadways. The DP Challenger defines the exact opposite intent of Stock Eliminator for the prior 50 years.

Stock Eliminator has always been for those seeking a challenge. I would define the typical owner / racer as one who can take equipment deemed a hindrance by most performance enthusiasts and turn it into a performance standout. Recognition is brought about by several methods which include winning races, winning class, claiming #1 qualifier positions and setting national records. All the while against others who followed the same set of rules and had the same expectations for rule engagement and enforcement.
These "old guys that need to go out to the pasture" attitude is disrespectful for not only those racers you quibble about, but the institution they have been a part of for 50 years. Given the funds (and desire), many of these guys could take the same Challenger and set the bar so much higher your head would spin.

And I have to wonder out loud. What is it that kept your team (prior to Keith Lynch) out of Stock Eliminator in years prior to the DP Challenger concept?

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

So would the only cars that go into A/FX be the CJ and DP cars? Would the criteria for A/FX include any other cars? And with all the griping about the CJ and DP cars plus the many threats to quit racing that have been made, is it possible that there maybe some new rules on the horizon that could wind up affecting everyone in Stock?

Remember the old saying..."Be careful what you ask for, it just might come true."

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

I believe that after reading a lot of posts over the last few months that a lot of you just dont have a clue about stock and super stock rules or racing in general. You are either life time spectators or bracket racers that just post to stir up s##t. What is it that you dont understand about putting these cars into a seperate class until the HP factors catch up to real world reality. It dosent matter what the class is called or what is plastered across the windshield. The current stock rules wont change for the old cars or the new cars. Most likely the new class' will have a lower index to run off of because of the lopsided performance advantage they now have. The stock rules are screwed up enough as it is so what could change? Just what the class designation is called running at the same wt. break as they run now in 2010 for 2011 dosent matter. If the AHFS or any new way of factoring these cars ends up factoring these new cars and more weight is needed than the car can be allowed to carry over the factory shipping weight (remember THAT rule?) to stay and run in stock elim. at 7.5 lbs per HP then they get a free ride to Super Stock at one of the 6.0 thru 7.0 class wt. breaks. NHRA wont tell you what thier plan is until they are ready so its all just BS until it happens. .

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Wouldn't the F/X class designation be Super Stock only and not Stock?????????

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

You're playing with words.NHRA can use the designation for any class they want.All they need to do is WANT to do it.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

OK Ed, not sure what ya mean there, but, the CJ's need more tire width for when they're finally able/allowed to 'turn the wick up' cause right now they can smoke 'em to the 1000'. Wouldn't that be considered or do ya reckon the F/X class would allow this if it is a stock class, I hope NOT !!!!!!!!!!!

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

I see what you were driving at Bernie.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

I think the point should be - the Drag Paks are "normally" aspirated - the CJs are blown - big difference

Some sort of SS blown class would be good for the CJs but the Drag Paks deserve better fate

55 HP in 9 weeks on the one of the Drag Pak motors - using the "terrible" AHFS

Maybe they will correct themselves soon enough

In the meantime we play the game we always have - avoid heads up - or go into debt and buy one

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Well put-Greg-Jeff-X Techman--it alway seems that someone who does not understand what stock/super stock racers are about ,try to define who we are and put us in there world, instead of them learning how to fit into ours--How loud would the new car guys scream if I put a tunnel ram,fuel injection,computer,hood scoop on one of my L88s--it would not supprise me that I might be the # 1 qualifer at the next race and you can bet they would be yelling louder than we are right now.--I heard that the new Hemi motor looks like a comp elemantor motor on the inside--and for old cars that are for sale I have 9 of them--and I could rattel off 10 more of my buddies cars right now--but we would have to take pennies on the dollar if we could even sell them ,until we get this late model issue resolved--there is more at stake here than going down the track--who is going to buy/race a 1969 Camero,Corvette,Mustang,Challenger,that is 4 tents slow and no chance of ever getting any better and the late models keep on getting faster???How is this going to affect the engine builders,piston mfg,trans builders,header builders,Jegs,Summit and the list goes on and on , and there is a lot of 60+ year old racers that cant believe that this is going on after they have spent 30+ years honeing and polising there skills so our cars perform the way they do and have to compete against FACTORY built race cars-- Stock/super stock is what it is today because of the RACERS and the people above, not the New car mfgs or the race sanctioning bodies--I believe that every one that currently races stock and super stock needs to speak up and it does not need to be a bash the new cars--I dont think that we need to kill the goose that laid the golden egg just to let the new cars race--thats my 2 cents worth --Emmett

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Not always true, some of the CJs are natrually aspirated pushrod engines.

Re: A/FX or what for 2011?
 

Very well said Mr. M. It is not the current DP & CJ cars that are the only issue. They are the tip of the iceberg. The problem is the way the manufacturers are piecing together these combos from their racing shelves trying to represent a car that doesn't exist under the current stock eliminator rulebooks (or it is an interpretation that was loosened by some big factory dollars).

These combos are perpetual and will quickly make the previous combos ineffective. The real screaming will come from the current Drag Pak & Cobra Jet owners when they put them in their own class to pound away at each other. They have no clue as to how much money it will take to be competitive against each other. They have a free ride (nearly) in competing with the existing cars. That will all change when they have to go against the other deep pockets that own those cars.

I kind of have pity for them.

Don