Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

That should be a good race....if Lynch leaves 3 or 4 spark plug wires off.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

5035 Keith Lynch 1778 Joe Santangelo
E3 ****WINNER**** 0.079 10.490 110.63 0.029 10.780 121.67
C/SA Dial: 11.40 (+/-): -0.910 C/SA Dial: 11.40 (+/-): -0.620
Prior rounds:
E2 0.473 14.839 4.579 (J Brimer ) 0.068 10.951 0.091
E1 (J Hefler ) 0.089 10.232 -0.028 (J Simoneaux ) 0.006 10.876 0.036
Qualified: #1 10.262 -1.138 #17 10.892 -0.508

Another Heads-up! Santangelo had a good light, but the new Challenger easily gets the win light.



Yeah great. The kid was on a roll right to the top, too.

So, a C/SA car that 's been hit ,what 2-3 times ? Still goes 10.20's at a slow track...

Thanks ,NHRA

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Sad

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Yea and the car's owner was stating how this would effects very few racers and the
DP owners are being unfairly attacked.........

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Exactly, they just ruined Joe's shot at the National Championship.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

I think Lynch gets McClanahan next.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Life and class racing are not fair.

How is it sad ED? Did Keith cheat in any way? Joe is a great guy and just got beat heads up. That is class racing.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

fixed to reflect factual content

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

And McClanahan is gone

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Actually the 5.7 DP cars have been hit 5 times already.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
1967 Jim Marshall 5035 Keith Lynch
E5 0.053 11.198 117.35 ****WINNER**** 0.013 10.319 118.60
F/SA Dial: 11.19 (+/-): 0.008 C/SA Dial: 10.29 (+/-): 0.029
Prior rounds:
E4 (R Hall ) 0.038 11.238 0.068 (R McClanahan) 0.037 10.291 0.011
E3 0.001 11.389 0.219 (J Santangelo) 0.079 10.490 -0.910
E2 (E Richardson) 0.050 11.368 0.198 0.473 14.839 4.579
E1 (W Neely ) 0.002 11.260 0.120 (J Hefler ) 0.089 10.232 -0.028
Qualified: #2 11.105 -0.745 #1 10.262 -1.138

3:21 p.m. Lynch nailed Marshall to the tree to get a trip to the final round. Keith Lynch's MOV: 0.0099 seconds (approximately 20 inches).

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Keith Lynch may be one of the best driver/builder/tuner racers there is.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

without a doubt. Mr. Wertman has done very well by getting Keith on board

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Amen to that. Good job, Keith and congrats to the Wally
Thanks for the entertainment this cold and dark Monday night
/ Pelle

Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
5035 Keith Lynch 400D Slate Cummings
E6 ****WINNER**** 0.001 10.280 124.51 0.020 10.648 124.70
C/SA Dial: 10.28 (+/-): 0.000 B/SA Dial: 10.69 (+/-): -0.042
Prior rounds:
E5 (J Marshall ) 0.013 10.319 0.029 No Time
E4 (R McClanahan) 0.037 10.291 0.011 (B Plourd ) 0.015 10.709 0.009
E3 (J Santangelo) 0.079 10.490 -0.910 (D Eichem ) 0.008 10.735 0.025
E2 0.473 14.839 4.579 (D Latino ) 0.013 10.648 -0.022
E1 (J Hefler ) 0.089 10.232 -0.028 (W Carrell ) 0.036 10.614 -0.086
Qualified: #1 10.262 -1.138 #11 10.640 -0.610

3:50 p.m. Wow! Lynch puts together a 0.001 package to slam the door shut and take the Stock "Wally."

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Well done!
Keith and Dave
congrats

Dan Wilson

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Charlie sad for Joe that's it. Lynch is running and driving great. Nothing against him at all. If they were factored right it wouldn't be an issue. Joe's car won't run 10.20 at Maple Grove much less Noble.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Has anyone (Nitro Joe) ever put together what percentage of stock eliminator runs are heads up?

You think it could be as high as 5%?

Would really like to know.

Have to go rounds to increase your chances - that is for sure.


:-) peace

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

I agree with this post 100% Keith is obviously a great racer and has a history of doing very well.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Andys dad
I am not sure Joe has done that but one thing he did was show the Top Guns
Might be worth a look.....

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

I know about his list and have looked at it in the past.

I am a computer geek so I will try to run some of my own numbers on the last couple of years.

Not sure what being a "Top Gun" has to do with heads up - fast cars don't get any more heads up runs than the rest of us (porbably) - another thing for me to figure out

I just know there are not that many heads up runs - even when we were fast

This last weekend there was one - it just happened to be "famous"

Probably can't automate the pull of the data but maybe - I will give it a shot - I love stuff like that



:-) peace

Ron Durham

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Joe got enhanced and did not have a chance!

Its sad when the national champ is decided by the w**** in Glendora.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Joe has been beat several times this year in a heads up run. Just imagine what he could have done if Stock eliminator allowed the driver to win instead of races decided by money or horsepower factors.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

i know where you're going with that............................don't

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

There is an eliminator tailored specificly to what you want. It is called bracket racing.
Do not confuse bracket racing with stock or superstock.
Someone will always have a faster car no matter what brand.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

He's also won some too.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

And bracket racing with the correct carb is called Stock or Super Stock!!!!!

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

And correct block. Correct throttle body. Correct heads. Correct cc's of the head. Correct intake. Correct, stock lift of the camshaft (in Stock). Must meet chassis rules for the class. Tire size restrictions. Must be an accepted car/engine combination (except Modified classes and GT). Must meet the minimum weight. Must pass fuel check using accepted fuels. Must meet minimum performance levels. Can not dial-in slower than said performance levels. Must be able to pass a teardown inspection. Full, correct interior. Stock hood (in Stock, S/S and SS/GT).


etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Your correct Mike.

In Stock or S/S the next time anyone puts their dial in on the window with shoe polish, close your eyes and click your heels together 3 time while repeating..."I'm not bracket racing, I'm not bracket racing, I'm not bracket racing."

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Yes. And, that two-dollar bottle of shoe polish is about the ONLY similarity between Class Racing and Bracket Racing. I'll simplify it, since I have done both in my day.

-In Stock, I have DNQ'd (did not qualify) at a race, the 2000 Indy Divisional race. 141 cars showed up. Only 128 can qualify. I ended up #138, was not quick enough, and did not get to race. I've never been told in a bracket race that I was not quick enough to race. I showed up, paid, and got to race.

-Stock requires that all cars raced be accepted in the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. A minimum of fifty units must have been factory produced for that particular car/engine combination to be eligible to raced. Brackets, pretty much if you can build it, you can run it, as long as it meets safety specs for the ET's it runs.

-At the same race in Stock, I had a run DQ'd because my fuel did not pass fuel check. I have never had my fuel checked in bracket racing. In brackets, you can run racing gas, pump gas, methanol....in Stock, it is accepted racing fuel only.

-Stock requires all cars leave off a footbrake/clutch pedal, off of the bottom bulb, and you must manually shift the car (unless it's a late model EFI car where the computer shifts the car). In brackets, air/electronic shifters, delay boxes, throttle stops and transbrakes are permitted in a few classes.

-I had a run disallowed once in Stock because the car was five pounds too light for the minimum weight for the class I was running in. I've never been asked to weigh at a bracket race.

-I set a few National Records in 2004 in Stock. I had to teardown, have my head, intake, throttle body and camshaft checked to see it was the correct parts, correct year and casting number for the part, that they were not modified in any way, and that they met all the factory specs. Had I failed to meet any of the above, I would have been sent home from the race, and possibly been suspended for several months to a year, depending on how flagrant the violation was. In bracket racing, the only things I've ever had checked were to see if I had a seatbelt, that my battery was secure, and that I had an overflow resevoir. I have to show my NHRA/IHRA membership and competition license to race Stock. In brackets, never once was I asked for any credentials, even a state-issued drivers license.

-In Stock, each car/class has to meet a performance minimum (Class Index). I can not dial-in any slower than that particular standard. In bracket racing, I was never told that I "can not dial slower than _.__ seconds.

-Stock has a tire restriction of nine inches wide, by thirty inches tall. In bracket racing, I can run any size tire. Stock allows no chassis modifications, other than bolt-on traction bars. In brackets, I can run a 4 link suspension. Stock does not permit tubbing for bigger wheels. Bracket racing does.

-I have to run a stock, steel, flat hood in Stock. Bracket racing permits a fiberglass hood with a scoop.

- I have to have a full interior, dashboard, headliner, etc in Stock. In brackets, I can strip everything out that I don't want.

-And, last but not least, there is no advantage to being x-amount fast in bracket racing (unless you want to chase). You just want to be as consistant as possible. In Stock, you want to be consistant, but you need performance for the times you run Class Eliminations or have a Class Run in the eliminator. No shoe polish needed in those cases. Your B/SA bracket car can be the most consistant car in the world, and make 100 runs with .05 seconds. But, if your B/SA bracket car is running 10.90's and you have to run Jim Boudreau or Gary Richard in their B/SA, and they are running 10.40's....well, sorry about your damn luck. 10.90's, and $3 million dollars worth of stock in shoe polish will get you a cup of coffee....and a trip home for the weekend.

I need to talk to my buddy tomorrow. He built a really nice bracket car last year for Super Pro, but admits he's not the best driver, as far as driving the finish line. He asked me to drive it for him next year. It's really sweet. It's an early 1980's Malibu, with a 509 big block on alcohol, Dart heads, Dominator carb, 2.02 Powerglide with air shifter, and a delay box. Fiberglass hood with a Pro Stock-style hood scoop. The car has no interior (sheet metal) except a few gauges, drivers seat, steering wheel and roll cage. 14x33 Goodyear slicks, tubbed, no inner fenderwells in the front, aftermarket lightweight aluminum radiator. The firewall has been altered and moved back an inch. Car is fairly consistant, runs high 10.0's on a really good day, and low 10.20's on a hot, muggy day. Weighs about 2730 pounds, with driver. Sounds like a really neat bracket....err, I mean Stock Eliminator car, since they are the same. I think I'll ask him if we can take it to the first Division 1 open next year and enter it in Stock. Over/under five seconds for the tech guys to laugh their *** off and throw me out, or put me into Super Gas or Super Street? But, they can't throw me out of Stock!! I mean, it's just a ''bracket race''...right?

Oh wait...

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Mike, you hit the nail on the head there. No bracket motor even comes close to sounding like a good stocker motor plus the wheels in the air show. All together different ballgame, but some people think it must be that easy.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Ditto from us too Mike! Did you mention the distinct possibility of be torn down at ANY given race usually in the rain! Youngest son ( 20 yr. old) torn down 3 of first 7 races he ran this year...first two times before he set turn up wick and set a record.Oldest boy the race before that. We don't bring spares and half the tools to a bracket race or even our work clothes. I sure doesn't feel like bracket racing to us at least.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Don't forget the ladder that you have to run certain persons per qualifying. Unlike bracket racing as you can hide in the back of the lanes and pick and choose who you think you can beat or split buy-backs (none in stock) . And as Mike saysect ect ect.........Along with 9 pages of stocker rules.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Then after you have met all 9 pages of Stock rules you pull up against a non-driver with deep pockets in a heads up run and he sends you home. Maybe that is a better way to race...if you're the one with deep pockets.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

I guess you're calling Keith Lynch a "non- driver"......... (that's funny right there!)

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

If you are referring to Keith with that statement then you better do some homework. Also with everything that the "Drooze" crew has gone through this season I would say that this win was well deserved. Great Job Guys!!!

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

How many bracket racers plan or wish they could run stock or superstock? How many stock/superstock racers wish they could run brackets?
You are trying to level the field by taking the top down. Instead of making the bottom better

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Next time YOUR class racing in stock and the car along side of you has the same letters, click your heels together 3 times while repeating "I'm bracket racing, I'm bracket racing". Then let me know if you advanced to the next round and what number you dialed with the shoepolish, oh wait, we don't use shoepolish in a heads up or a class eliminations run because it's not the bracket race you think it is.

The racers who think stock is "just a bracket race" are those who change classes to avoid any chance of a heads up run or those that never go any rounds and have a very low probability of being in one. The winners know a heads up is likely and prepare the best they can.

I invite you to any D1 race, bring a "D" car and we can "bracket" race all day.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

Well I guess that ends the controversy of the DP and CJ cars being factored wrong. So no one will ever complain again when they get beat in a heads-up run.

OK NHRA. You can go on to other issues because ALL these racers like running heads-up against cars with deep pocket owners or ones that are factored lightly. Looks like your AHFS is working properly. Good job NHRA.

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

And I guess the Mopars are not legal? They pay their money, they build their cars and they meet all of the rules but they're "ruining" racing for everybody else. Boy have I heard this story before, as the old saying goes, history repeats it's self. Seen how many cars both in Sportsman and Pro have a "M" or "Ford" supported on them. NHRA knows. When the money leaves this time that may become a problem in this economy. And don't no one get me wrong I was racing a chevy against the Mopars the first time this occurred.

And right in the middle of all the comparisons to a Stock/Superstock legal car and a "bracket car" is the fact that the hood has to be exactly correct. Any body wondering why there is now so much conversation with NHRA and UNLEASHED and maybe Pinks All Out. Seen NHRA's website today?

Re: Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up
 

I agree. Many years ago, i will never forget in qualifying at Topeka in Stock Eliminator a run that Keith made in his Nova. I remember it like yesterday, he was in the right lane and he carried the wheels past the 330 beam and ran a 10.68 on a 11.70 index. That was the coolest stocker wheel stand (that was controllable) i had ever seen in person and still ran a second under. Keith is a GOOD racer-period. :cool: