Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

If NHRA goes though with the proposed changes in the afhs. Why not do away with the breakout? It would level the faster cars real quick.
Then at least the guys that can go fast are not as punished.
This might sound crazy but think about it a moment. If you went 1.50 under to win a race it would come with a 9.25 % hp, or .50 on the index. It wouldn't take long till the underated cars got adjusted. It would be like running class the whole race. You get there first you win.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Are you talking about heads up runs or all elimination runs?

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

No break out in heads ups now, Ed. I would be OK with it, buy don't think many would go for it.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

I'm talking about all runs. With an afhs like the one proposed it should correct the out of line cars pretty quick.
And down the road you would have cars running about 1.20 or so under.
Good competition and easy to explain. you get there first you win. Go to fast your combo gets hit.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

The idea of go fast racing has always been taken down because of the big dollar guys.
Now the big dollar guys could not dominate for long. If a car can go 2 seconds under and you hit it .015 it still goes 1.85 under but with the proposed ahfs it would get whacked 9 tenths or 18% hp. As long as the car checks legal.
It could work

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Artie that's ridiculous for eliminations.Here's why
I qualify at say .65 under.I run an A car that qualifies 1.10 under.We dial and run to the end.I go .01 under and he goes .44 under.You're saying he gets the win light?That's what
it seems like your saying,that they'll be no run outs in eliminations Correct me if I'm wrong.In raceday eliminations,on a non heads up run who's going to be stupid enough to go 1.50 under?
Rereading your posts are you saying we don't dial in,we run off indexes?

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Yes Eddie you run off the index no dialing. First car there wins. And while I'll agree with you if you are a 6 tenths under car a car isn't going to go 1.50 under against you.
But what about when 2 cars that can go 1.50 under run each other. The loser goes home, and they both get an afhs hit of 9.25% or .45 Do you think they will be able to run 1.50 under again? Now they should be 1.05 under.
Couple this with one class (natural only).
And I think this might work. It would sure get rid of the sandbaggers quick.
And at Indy go back to Class winners and quickest losers.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

You would get rid of sandbaggers and every car that cant run more than .85 under as they would have no reason to show up.
The really big bucks guys would just switch to the next under factored combo to stay on top after the current one gets hit.

I like the idea of these as a extra race like they did at the class nationals.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Well Art,if they go back to that system It's been nice racing Stock for the last 11 years.
Car counts will drop in my estimation by more than 50%.
I neither have the combination nor the money to run with these guys.
The solution to the skewed hp factors and the obscure older combos that are grossly underrated is for NHRA to take the run history they have and just hand out HP where it's warrented.Drag racing welfare,probably so,but at least it would make for some closer racing.Much better than the crap that's going on now with both the old/new out of whack factors and "selective" rules interpretation through out the divisions.
For those who think I have no dog in this fight,the record was just set in my class (T/SA)
at 13.15.It was at 13.29.The fastest I've ever gone was 13.44 inkiller weather at Atco.
I have no problem what so ever with the owners of these cars.I consider them both friends.I do have a problem with the rules structure that allows cars to bomb class indexs
by this much.
There are plenty examples of this.Mostly in the upper classes by virtue of the fact that a lot of people want to go fast.
So if you want to return to the days of winners being the guys with the deepest pockets,suit yourself.It's not my cup of tea.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

I love this idea. In fact, I'm in the stands at every race I attend because I can't afford to race that class. Its called Competition eliminator. Strap a $80,000 motor in that thing and go run Super Modified if you like this idea. As stated before, I can't handle that kind of cash. Change it for One year only, then maybe we are talking. But instead of trying to change the class rules because somebody purchased some bogus factors, maybe we should try not to let this bogus crap get into the class guides in the first place. I suggest we focus our efforts there.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

x2

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Hey Artie
I remember NHRA tried this in 1975. Three didget index no run out.
C/S was 4.27 C/SA was 4.46 the C/SA would get a .19 head start with no run out.
It lasted only one year.
Terry Welsh

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Art, It'll never fly! NHRA tried it and almost killed Stock.
Now if you want to try something different (and I don't, I'm just talking here) keep the index system as it is for a reference point. Each race starts out with the indexes as we know them, they don't change from race to race. After qualifing, the fastest run in a given class becomes the "index" for that race. In eliminations, a racer can dial up to 3 tenths SLOWER than the "index" or up to 1 tenth FASTER than the "index". Example, the SS/AH index is a 9.30, the fastest SS/AH car in qualifing goes an 8.50. The "index" for this race becomes an 8.50. All SS/AH racers at this race must dial between an 8.40 and an 8.80. All heads-up runs are still flat out. At the end of the day the "index" reverts back to the index. There would still have to be some kind of an AHFS in play or maybe a panel of racers and techs to factor and defactor out of line combos but maybe the triggers could be dialed back.
There ya go, the fast guys can "wag their d**ks" and the not so fast guys have to "work on their stuff" to stay within 3 tenths of the fast guys. Problem solved, now I'm gonna work on world peace.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Billy, "Ya gotta understand somethin'. The world doesn't wanna to be saved." - Billy Nees :cool:

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Michael, obviously those words were spoken by a truly brilliant man!

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Billy
How are things going with world peace today anything new?

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

I just put my key in the Nuke!

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Iran, NK, and all the stans?

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

How about no heads up in the eliminator? Just dial it!

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

that's called a bracket race, they have those every saturday night at your local track.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

I would say h#ll no!

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

art what do you say to the 50% of guys that run .5 tenths under thanks for coming see you next time you have no chance off winning EVER.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Looks like you might not be the only one with his key in the lock Billy......

If anyone needs parts for a KIA, better get them soon.....there might be a shortage coming.....

Raw, LIVE octopus eaters ain't right in the head anyway.....

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

If you want to race like this go run Comp. See how long you can afford that. It would kill SS and Stock.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

There would be almost no car count. Can't just do away with break outs.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Yes, car counts would suffer tremendously.

Back in October 1998 at the Dutch Classic, they did a special race. Sign up, pay the fee ($20 or $25). Top eight reaction times of those who signed up got to race. Payout was something like 40% winner, 20% r/u, 10% each semi and 20% to the track or NHRA, I can;t remember. There were about 20 cars or so that signed up.

In the spring of '99, at the first two Div 1 Opens (Delmar and Atco) and the LODRS race at Maple Grove, they did it again. This time, it was 16 cars, for the quickest under the index cars. Race was run with a CIC. I believe the CIC was the average of the field, and went into effect for first round. The car counts in S/S at those races were five, nine and seven. Stock didn't draw much better. Point is, trying to run S/SS racing like Comp will kill it.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

OK now that we've gone through this attempt to kill S/SS what's next on the totem pole.Step right up.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Art, I think you have a good ideal, But I'd change couple little things. Here we go: lower index's 4 tenths or maybe 5 tenths! #2 Ahfs trigger would work like this, run -.05 under new index get 5hp on Monday ,run -.10 under get 10hp on , etc. etc. run a second under get a 100hp every run counts adjustment every Monday. But to be fair, If you run -.10 under on run #1, -.50 under on run #2 and run -.30 on run #3 you would only get 50hp on Monday !! Now that works for me, Maybe just maybe by the time the Indy points meet rolls around I could run the $200 entry bonus race with no breakout and now who care's about the points meet!! 70 cars@ $200 = $14,000 WOW what a payday? LOL

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Don't take it away, just limit it! Go to .75 or 1.0 weight breaks! This would increase the headsup runs and mix it up a bit. That way u'd have to keep on your headsup toes a little more. This would bring the performance equation to the rounds. It would also limit some of the bracket racing game playing.

It's like when they put the 3 point shot into the NCAA bball, it brought the sharpshooters back in the game. Ha!

Stacy

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

AHFS would definitely have to change as well, that is so unscientific and statistically incorrect its pitiful. You can't average runs, it skews the curve. You have to do a standard deviation, much more statistically correct. My bro has advocated this FACT since they came out with it.

I'm just a washer salesman and I know that! :eek:

With the more heads up runs, this would have to be improved.:cool:

Stacy

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

I'll try and do a spread sheet on how many headsup run's would happen on .75 versus 1.0 weight breaks. Just for fun:D And yes Im bored!!! hahaha!

stacy

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Bracket racer and fan of stock here. How about getting rid of the handicap start? Drivers would not know when to lift if there was no one next to them. Yes, cars will still be driven in bracket mode but at least they would be kind of forced to make a full pass for consistancy sake, would'nt they? It may not flush out much more performance but at least it would put an stop to the top end nonsense and make life more difficult for the sandbaggers. Not trying to be a smart ***, if this makes no sense please explain.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

If you did this it would be just like time trials, No racing at all.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Here's my idea.One car lines up on the starting line.The other car lines up in the other lane on a starting line 1/2 mile down the track.Handicap start and both cars race to the finish line.No clean/dirty tree,no fast car advantage chasing and as much sense as some of the bull$hit that's being suggested.
How about we all band together and pressure the powers that be to fix the HP/AHFS mess.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

lots of luck with this suggestion !

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

I agree with the no break out concept but in the final round only as it would;

1. Places more emphasis back on performance incase you made the final

2. First car to finish line winner making it easier for spectators to relate, I.e. Pinks all out

3. Who wouldn't give up 5 HP for a national win (some poor drivers may have to give up even more)

Jim Parsons

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

more emphasis on performance

how about class winners only

then Ed you would have to spent some money

everybody saids to fix the system afnbchyz what every it is, BUT nobody has given one good ideal

i will be at the PRI show
hope to see you there

have a very MERRY XMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

The answer to that would be what NHRA did a couple of years ago with class winners at the Indy nationals.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Vic,I'm po.

Re: Idea????? Do away with the breakout!!!!
 

Billy, I like your idea the best so far... especially now that all of those turbo mopars aren't in DF/S anymore...at least I'll have a little bit more of a chance at this. Furthermore, since I'm one of only two (known of) DF/S racers in the southwest (or four west of Missouri?), and we all run nearly the same, then with your ideal we'd all have a chance to be competitive...the turbos have A, B, & CF/S...leave DF/S to us normally aspirated racers!!!