Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

There are several racers on this forum who are always talking about Stock and S/S losing its performance based status. Well here’s an idea where you can prove you still have performance based classes.

At the LODRS events across the country the tracks are prepped and the racers are there. Talk to your Division Director and see if he would allow you to have a combo race on Friday or Saturday night of the event. Make it a no breakout combo race that proves just how fast you can go, not who’s the best driver with a bottle of shoe polish. Either get your own sponsors or make it a gamblers race to pay the purse. Don’t expect NHRA to put up any money, do it all yourself.

My suggestion would be handicapped off the indexes with no breakout. Of course the AHFS would NOT be in effect. There would still be a need to be fuel checked and weighed just to keep everyone honest. And no ringers would be allowed. The car must be entered into and qualified at the regular LODRS event.

This would not be a TOP Stock or Top S/S race since all classes of Stock and S/S would be invited to race, not just a select few. So how many of you performance oriented racers would be willing to put up your own money to race this way? Think about it and talk to your DD for next season.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

i think thats a great idea if you put a CIC at -1.00

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

I would do that with my new car and I would have done it with my old car. When I started you had to win class to run the eliminator. Course the eliminator in stock was only 6, S/S thru E/S

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

I would for sure. If the entry was $200 and you get twenty cars, thats $4000. Before anyone says that is too steep, you are already there, you will spend this much on a points race and get paid less after you chase it down.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

No CIC, just flat out racing is the only way to prove true performance. Thats what everyone wants....right?

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Travis take a look at my thread about doing away with the breakout alltogether.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Travis,
I think it is a great idea - but I don't see it happening in D-1 because there's already too much on the schedule. A while back (like late 90's early 00's) D-1 used to have a gamblers type race race early Friday evenings at some of the points meets. They took the top 8 in reaction time from each class S/SS and the .90 classes (if you signed up prior to the time trials). It really was a lot of fun. Some guys did have a problem with it being based on RT. It did not last long though. And now, with Top Sportsman, Top Dragster, Snow Mobiles on the schedule - I'm sure it will never happen.

You have to remember that the now defunct NSCA did something similar... (Around '03-'05) with a CIC type system in place...a generous payout too.... and guess what? Hardly anyone showed for these races. I was able to make to 2 of them (You were at one of em, I remember) - but again, due to lack of support it was gone relatively quickly.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Maybe Gary Richard would be interested doing that at the Div 1 open races.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Sounds like a blast.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

the only time i could see this happening in a d1 event is thursday ,although no one has qualified it might be a great way to get a one day race in before the divisonal race ,,this could also be a qualifier for the divisonal race thinking out loud gmonde

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

I really like the idea, but Thursday's are hard. Maybe if it was run every Thursday before a points race it would have a better chance of developing a following. I know on Thursday at every Cajun Sportsnationals has been a problem with anything other than a test-n-tune. If time could be found during the event would be the best, but that varies division to division.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Fri night if there isnt a curfew

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

I bet there are a few Mopars and Mustangs willing to help you put up your money to watch their performance. Maybe even one or two 305 injected cars. Good Luck. Without a CIC method the "fix" is in to help the poorly factored cars take home some extra money.
This would only work with a tight CIC to help the second round cars. First round is not a pretty sight.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

How in the world would this ever work with the weak or complete lack of tech that we have now?

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Why is tech a problem ? A car can run a second and a half under at a points meet and get HP on Monday, is that car checked ? What is fair about that ? Some people need to see the decisions made at national events even get overturned by higher ups. Why are good tech's handcuffed and shutdown? Seems to me nhra dose not like to tear down and would do away with it if they could which would do away with S & SS. After a whole season of unhappy people why has nhra been so closed mouth ? How about end all this crap and give rules everyone can live with, rules that are fair for all not just a few. Now is the time to announce the new rules not after the first of the year.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Bob,you've heard of divde and conquer haven't you?The internet is NHRAs biggest asset.
We get on here argueing about silly bull$hit things,like first or worse,worse redlights,pay
outs,east coast vs west coast,etc etc.NHRA sits back and let's us tear our solidarity apart and doesn't have to address the major problems with our sport.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Dick, Who said these races should be fair? Forget about any CIC. People want to prove how fast they can go. Okay, let 'em go fast. You want fair and equal racing where people have got a chance, we've got that at the races now. In this type race only the fartherest under their index will come out on top....unless they redlight. Cut a safe light then see if you can drive around your competition on the big end.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

[QUOTE=Travis Miller;224781]Dick, Who said these races should be fair? Forget about any CIC. People want to prove how fast they can go. Okay, let 'em go fast. You want fair and equal racing where people have got a chance, we've got that at the races now. In this type race only the fartherest under their index will come out on top....unless they redlight. Cut a safe light then see if you can drive around your competition on the big end.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)[/QUOTE

I understand now. The whole deal was a "joke" to show people how unfair the whole deal would be if heads up, no break out. You werent even trying to have fairness, just slaughter by the underfactored,new cars . I get it now. I suppose this would again point to the poor rules being used currently.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

[QUOTE=Dick Butler;224783I understand now. The whole deal was a "joke" to show people how unfair the whole deal would be if heads up, no break out. You werent even trying to have fairness, just slaughter by the underfactored,new cars . I get it now. I suppose this would again point to the poor rules being used currently.[/QUOTE]

Dick, I'm shocked. I never thought I would ever hear you say heads up without a break out is unfair. My suggestion was not to run heads up. It was to handicap off the class index, just with no breakout. And my suggestion would let everyone in, not just a select few classes.

Here's a chance for performance oriented racers to prove just how fast they can go without being hit with horsepower. Call it a slaughter if you want but nobody would be forced to enter.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Gee thanks . I guess I know where Travis , Ryck Campbell , Wayne Lewis and myself stand now after all the hours of teardowns we put in this year !

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Dave.....He must have been talking about IHRA....LOL.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

I was not directing to you guys personally. I was only stating that the higher ups reverse most of the decisions made at the race tech level.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Travis, I do believe I detect a little bit of tongue-in-cheek.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

I didn't say that. No me. I been in the barn too many times. One funny story, a few years back I got both my full size trucks in there. I'm done with one, got the other apart and am checking stuff. I'm tired, I have had no beer, I'm grumpy, and Travis is checking my truck. I think we were checking deck height. I could not get the thing to check, hell I couldn't get the thing to stay on the block. Travis finally told me "Why don't you get out the way so I can do that and get out of here." I walked away, found a beverage, took a breather, and walked back. Travis said I had .002 to spare and in less than 10 seconds showed me why I could not get the thing to work. And there are some funny ones from Orlando over the years. One year I am through with the numbers, but hadn't started reassembly yet. The Tech guy and me walk over to Jim with the card, and in only Jim's way, he asked "This is it?", I said "Yep, all done.", He says "You sure?", "All Done.", and only Jim could say, well you better start again because this won't pass. I looked at the card, noticed the math was completely wrong, and shamefully walked back to the truck and started measuring again.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Travis,a race like you suggest would only cause more resentment towards the guys running these runaway HP factors.When the racers (and NHRA officials) see what some of these cars are capable of they'll be at the door of NHRA HQ in Cal like the mob in the freanenstein movie,screaming for somebodies head.
Dave Ley,we all know and appreciate the job you local tech guys do.It seems the foot
dragging comes from upstairs.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Travis, What a great idea. I would run them at every available race.
PB Candies
SS/STK 4312

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Paul,seeing that you have one of the cars in the middle of all the HP fiasco I guess you would want to run races like that.
But,if you had a car like mine,that on a real good day is an .80 under car,would you be so enthusiastic about plunking your money down?
I guess the arguement would be for me to just not enter a race like that.But it doesn't take away the fact that some run away HP factors need to be corrected.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Boy, tear downs have sure changed since Red Anderson! I never measured anything. Just took it apart and got out of his way. You measure your own stuff now?

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Travis, In the spirit of your humor I will bring a Turbo Dodge stocker and eliminate any chance of another form of car entering. That should alert you to the fact that "fairness" here is related to the basic Flaws of the factoring system not a dial in on a window.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

At least at the CIC race....we can see what these things can run.....think about that....it will be good for at least 50 pages....lol

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Dick, If anyone does put on one of these races, I'm sure you would be welcome to race anything you want as long it is eligible to run at a LODRS event and is legal. My suggestion for races like this is not a joke. While not a race most would even be competitive at, there are some who still want to show their performance building skills in Stock and SS. This type race would show off their talents. I have no idea how many would actually participate but at least these races would not be limited to a few classes as have been aggressively promoted in the past. Everyone including you would be welcomed.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

I do believe some might wish for this ONE time in a row. Without a CIC only a select set of cars could or would try it more than one time.
The aggressively sponsored TOP/STK and TOP/SS classes had several advantages over the "open" no break out you suggest.
1) The cars were grouped in classes with previously strongly factored combinations which resulted in very close competition.(New Mopar and Mustangs would kill the races until factored)
2) Many brands competed. A Dodge SS/B, Corvette SS/BA, a Camaro SS/CA all won at least one time. A T-Bolt was overdue to win based on performance before the series was ended due to Economy hit on racing in general.
3) If it were possible to get a True Cash sponsor for a series of TOP/STK and SS it would attract more racers. Several potential racers werent interested in the work to fit the class. MOST loved the format and really enjoyed the races. Middle Class and Lower class heads up could be similarly popular if MONEY were there.
Good Luck with your proposal...its all racing....

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

I apologize Dick. I did not realize that ALL racers and ALL classes got to race in TOP/STOCK and TOP/SS. I guess the other racers in lower classes just opted out. Maybe the racers in lower classes just did not race because "it would have been a slaughter."

My mistake.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Im all for it!

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

I would be to if the AHFS is in affect during the runs.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

There you go again travis, Joking. Of all people there you know that any car that reached the wt break could run in TOP/Stk and TOP/SS and consequently it WAS open only to A B AND C cars. Stick and automatic. D couldnt get enough wt out..
With time and support I am confident the lower cars could have fit other wt breaks, kind of like condensing class as discussed elsewhere in several posts.
Good luck Travis. Always fun to discuss these classes with you. I know you support class racing and we are all lucky to have your dedication and knowledge to back up the tech department in these classes.Many asked about just this increase in Wt breaks to allow the heavy cars a Heads up more often than just 2 or 3 nationals.
Dick

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Dick have something like this at your races and Ill be there! Im a Cincy guy but Im usually hanging out with Louderback or Disco Dean at Kil Kare at least once a week. I have thought about your races before but I havent got the wrong wheel drive turbo car that consistent yet lol.

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

This sounds like it would be similar to the "Quick 32"s that Alex had at his party in Byron in 2001. I remember a good turnout,, and everyone ran fast, and if it wasn't for some breakage in the late rounds, the #1 qualifiers in both Stock and Superstock would've pulled it off. As a spectator,,it was fun to watch,,I'll never forget Brian Olsen in that wheelstanding '67 Nova, drilling the tree. They did this on Saturday afternoon and got it in just before the curfew,,, very entertaining. My 2 cents.
Danny Durham

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

Love It I'll be there :)

Re: Performance Based Stk/SS Racing
 

They used to run a program like this at Music city raceway( Union Hill) years ago.. I can remember watching them run.. They called it combo 1 and combo 2 . I dont know how long it was ran. It was very fun to watch.
Maybe if notes were taken and given to nhra some true performance numbers might come out.. As jeff stated he could bring back one of the turbo chryslers and go 2 seconds under the index.. It might change a little if the car had to be qualified in the regular program and has been through tech..
There are more cars fast that are the slower index cars than the other way around.. There is a turbo thunderbird thats been real fast also.. And then Mr Bob Dennis is always around the top in super stock..

Scott Hutton