New AHFS 2011
 

New AHFS posted on NHRA site. Tom

http://www.nhra.com/competition/automatichp.aspx

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

link?

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Thanks Tom.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

New AHFS says National Events and LODRS events. Does this include Opens?

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

National Opens are not LODRS events

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

It still says final qualifying runs. I take that to mean they only use what is says on the final qualifying sheet. So, one person can only get one trigger in qualifying per race, correct?

If they are going to use all qualifying runs for the triggers and averages, why don't they just say ALL qualifying runs?

Could an SRAC member get a clarification?


-Toby

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Mark, YOU have a girlfriend !! LOL, just kidding

You are a true 'go fast' stocker guy and I, for one, applaud your efforts. Just go out and get ya some HP, then we can race in C together!

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

and I won't need those Merge collectors, either.... :~) LOL!

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

oops, Mark... sorry I might need those collectors for the old roadster I have if I transplant my power plant in it for Comp.... sorry just let the moment get to me!

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

you know, if enough people brought this scenario to the attention of contingency sponsors that it will cause them to lose business, they might bitch and moan to NHRA about it.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Adger, you have too many toys. :D

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Jim,

We are not going to use all qualifying runs, which is why it reads “final qualifying runs and all elimination runs.” It’s no different than this year, or years past. With that said you are correct, what ever the is listed on the final qualifying sheet will be used in the review process.

Pat Cvengros

Technical Services Representative

In regards to Toby's question
Jim Mantle
div 6 S/SS

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

So, you hit the review trigger four times in qualifyimg, and only one of them counts?

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Thanks a lot, Jim. I was told last season that one person could get flagged twice during qualifying at the same race. Maybe I misunderstood or got the wrong info, but when I asked this same question in the other AHFS thread that Mike Crutchfield started he said:


I'm glad it's all cleared up now.


-Toby

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

So, what if ?????

On one given weekend, at two different race tracks anywhere in the country, the same combo car (i.e. DP with same motor), which is two different cars with different drivers, go faster than 1.20 under to trigger an auto HP hit, does it get hit TWICE ??????

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Bernie,
Good Point if this would have been in effect DP 5.7 would have been rated at about 390 by the time it left Indy!

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Bernie, I believe the answer is "no". Last year, I believe Roy Johnson and someone in Division 4 (maybe Dempsey Pendarvis) both ran fast enough for automatic HP. I asked, and was told no, it only gets hit once. I would guess now, with the tiered HP hits, the fastest of the two runs would be used to hit the combination (i.e., if one car is -1.20 and another -1.40, the -1.40 penalty would be applied). I could be wrong.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Mike, that's my exact problem with the current 'setup'. I know it happened last year and I have a hard time believing that it doesn't affect the AHFS twice !!!

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

True. I don't what, if any, amendments will be made for 2011.

Using my scenario of -1.20 and -1.40, last year, it would have received one hit, the standard 3.25% hit for ANY run, regardless of how quick. This year, -1.40 will receive a 7.25% hit. So in that sense, it would be better this year. IF they use a 'quickest run/most severe penalty' rule. Time will tell, I guess.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Are they going to use the factored index, or the sea level index at the altitude factored tracks?

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Bernie, are you saying you think a combination should be hit twice if two different cars go 1.25 under on the same weekend?

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

If he's not, won't, I will. Hell yes, if two like combinations run far enough under at the same race/weekend that ENGINE combo should be hit twice.

RJ

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

The problem with that is both cars are running "unadjusted" by the AHFS for that weekend. It's not like one car earns the AFHS adjustment, they get adjusted, then the second car goes out and earns another adjustment.

As much as some combinations need to be reigned in pretty quickly, two hits in one weekend is pretty unfair.

Example: Car 3xxx goes to Bowling Green and runs 1.25 under, while car 2xxx, the exact same combination, goes to Atlanta and goes 1.27 under. Either run would earn 4.25% under the new AHFS system. It certainly wouldn't be fair for them to hit that combination for 8.5%, because both cars were running in the "pre 4.25% AHFS adjustment" condition. It's not like one earned them 4.25% on Friday, they had to add the weight Saturday morning, and the second car went out and earned another 4.25% after adding the weight, or having to move up a class.

No, hitting the same combination twice in one weekend is too heavy handed, regardless of the combination. Yeah, most of the new cars need a lot of HP added to them, but it needs to be done fairly.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Alan you use the word "Fairly".......you kidding of course? What is fair about these combos that are "Fairly"?, rated at least 150hp under what they should be rated? Whats fair about that? If the AHFS is the answer (sic), why not let it work both ways? If a combo gets too much hp placed on it, then according to the AHFS, they could get hp taken off by not running so fast. It is suppose to work both ways, whats good for the goose.......now I think thats "Fair". You can't make a good agruement out of being "Fair" to the new cars, since this problem would not of come up without the total loss of what ever integrity the decision makers had. As Bernie said "just follow the money"

Fairly......yeah I got your Fairly!!

Later RJ

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

RJ,
Just because the factories and NHRA did something wrong to us, that doesn't mean we have to sink to their level. That's the same reasoning some people use to justify the new cars.

How many times have you heard "well, GM had those under rated LT-1 cars, and then they got the LT-1 approved in the 98 Firebird, so we should get to screw the GM guys"? Or "payback is a beeyotch, you GM guys got over on us, so now we're going to get over on you"?

Do we REALLY want all of class racing to sink to THAT level? I don't.

We race an old school 69 Camaro in A/SA and AA/SA, so we have as much to lose to the new cars as anyone. But I wouldn't think it was fair if our combination got hit twice in the same weekend, so I'm not going to say it would be fair to anyone else, just because they race a new car. I can't bring myself to sink to that level.

Besides, let's be honest here. The AHFS is meaningless when it comes to the new factory race cars. All the factories have to do is change one or two blueprint specs every year, and they have a whole new combination. They don't even have to actually build cars anymore, they just have to put parts in the catalog and sell them. It's a new combination every year at the stroke of a pen. Anytime they get hit too hard, just get out the old pen and the catalog, and call NHRA.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

RJ, you are off your pills again.

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How far underrated is a 425hp 427 '69 camaro?

200 - I know a few make more than 625.

Lots of combos are underated they have been for years.

If you can not make more than a combo is rated you will not race it.

Come on you all know the factor is about 1.3 to 1.6 times more than the NHRA rating let alone the factory rating. (depending on how far under you can go)


:-) peace

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

or 2.5-3 for the new factory cars

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Are you trying to compare the 450 rated 12.5:1 Viper engine to the horsepower rating of a 427/425? The most recent Viper was rated at 600 horsepower and thats with 10.2:1 compression, a smaller cam, and a smaller intake. Not three days ago someone made the comment of how bad the 6.4 Hemi was because it was 2 points down from the 6.1. Using your factor.....1.3 x 600 = 780. 1.6 x 600 = 960 and thats with the factory specs. 800-900 horsepower is not out of the question with these motors with a good engine builder and tuner. People have gotten close with the factory specs.

I'm all on board with the Challengers because at this point its clear they are not going anywhere but its just funny how some people are actually trying to justify these horsepower ratings. A Challenger with a Viper motor on steriods? Awesome!! It's definitely going to be cool to see these cars going down the track in Stock as short lived as it may be. Just personally don't see the fun of running a combo grossly under-factored. No one is looking at these guys, (besides each other), and saying "wow, thats awesome, you guys did a good job."

No matter what side of the fence you stand on, you have to look at these numbers and just shake your head and laugh. At the end of the day, that's all anyone on the starting line is doing when they go down the track.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Chad, didn't you get 10 or 20 taken off your combo? What a system. If I had gotten 20 off my old car, I would still have it. I think you and the Sammy got the benefit of that.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Not too long ago we were talking about the first stocker in the 9s now the question is -

Will it be a blown CJ or V10 Challenger to be the first stocker in the 8s?

The snake wars will be interesting a Viper against a Cobra.

Sorry I could not help my self Jeff.

I think they will be in A/FX next year @ 7.0 lbs.

9.17 and 142 at Milan just kidding/guessing/hoping

I am bored at work today


:-) peace

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Alan

I appreciate your and everyone else's passion and involvement with Class racing. I myself hate to see it come to an end as I have known it for 50 years. There have been changes both good and bad and in most cases I believe it made the sport better and stronger.

However, with the latest issue at hand, I believe that its just about over for the older car combos, especially the AA-H Classes. With the new Factory involvement (which I think is a positive move) it has become foolish to think that an older combo has any chance in a heads up/class run. Maybe this is what NHRA wants, all things do change, so maybe this is it.

I just find it hard to believe that with the way NHRA rules and the Factory cars dominate, that it will be possible to ever get a fair shake in the future.

I know that there are people who are writing, emailing and calling NHRA with the concerns of most Class racers, but it is a very small percentage. I appreciate you effort. Most of us just sit and do nothing, thinking its a waste of time and "Oh, somebody else is already contacting them". So in the end we get what we deserve.

I hope thats it not too late for NHRA to make the playing field level or at least not so one sided. I am 66 and I still enjoy most of everything associated with Class Racing. Merry Christmas to everybody

RJ

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Mike, one of the best posts I've read in a while.

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Yup Mike is right on, DAD got pissed at my last post but you better hope there is an A/FX class cause you wont be able to keep that puppy in Stock for long, SS it will be and FAST.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Jeff, our car is a 435, not the 400. It was a 400 till 2008. I have written several letters to get HP off the 435 to no avail. The low rise 3x2 intake is nowhere near as good as the 372 intake on the 425, and the extra CFM don't make up for it.

I also wish we would have kept the 400 stuff, its a better combo for sure now. Look at Dave Casey ( not sure if he is the 400 but I'm pretty sure it is).

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

RJ and all my other buddies, there might be help on the way. Keep the faith, and keep the beverages chilled till we see what happens. Trust me.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Jeff if something happens I will see you down south in March. If not I will be staying close to home.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

I was just told by nhra that the competion commitee was responsible for the new afhs.
Was this the best our guys could come up with?
It will save us all a lot of money. just get a car to run 6 tenths under and they will take care of it for you. The fast guys (if they choose to) will be moved two or three classes at a time.
The slow cars will be defactored.
There is no longer any reason for R&D or buying parts.
I was having trouble with my transbrake. Spent weeks and about $1000 trying to duplicate it, i have a set of Individual Throttle Bodies good for 10 horsepower over the stock type box manifold I run now. I have a set of solid lifters (I've been running hydraulics)I was thinking about spending a grand or so on a step/merge collector header.
I walked through the PRI show today and thought to myself "What Am I Doing Here".
I ran 6 tenths under in so-so air leaving at an idle (brake not working). So I'm just going to put the govenor and a stock valve body, back in the trans and just put it in D for DragRace
I'm going to save a ton of bucks but I don't know if I'll enjoy it. I've always driven up the return road thinking of what to do to make the car faster.
Thanks Guys

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

You will like it if you win the eliminator.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Tony I'm a realist. We did way more than our share of winning years ago. I'm not intimidated by Fletcher, Biondo or anyone.
BUT I race about 6 to 10 times a year A lot of people race more than that in a month.
Years ago we raced wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Saturday night, and Sunday. Everywhere you went they had a stock/superstock race.
That is no longer possible. Where I live now the closest track (1/8 mile outlaw) 75 miles from home, Only opens every other week.
Without seat time you need to be lucky, real lucky. While I know it's possible. And I never expect to lose. If I do I don't get upset (unless i made a stupid mistake more than once).