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-   -   What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=30168)

cal 12-08-2010 11:02 AM

What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Hello All
I been outta racing for several years, and just returned last season to my true love,
"DRAG RACING".
I mostly bracket race, but ran a couple IHRA Nitro Jams races, and competed in Hot Rod.
And to my suprise I liked it, and hope to attend several S/ST & H/R races this coming season.

I guess my question is, is there anything you the races see that would make the class more appealing to other racers and to fans. Is there something that you think should be changed in your particular Super class.

Do you think S/ST H/R would be a better class with no throttle stop?
Should S/ST H/R be for back half type cars only?
Must have Stock Firewall and a stock dash?
Should the minum weight be raised to 3000 lbs?
Should all cars in S/ST H/R have a glass windsheild?
I really like all the different types of cars competeing in S/ST H/R.

I like the 5 tenths Pro Tree, as far as the Scotty rule goes, I think you should only be able to run 1 super class, if you want to run a 2nd class run Stock or Super Stock, T/D or T/S, or? (but it really doesnt matter to me)
The 10.90 index is fine, but so would a 10.50 index too.

I allready sold my slow 10.70 motor and have a 9.50 motor in the works, so I can throttle stop too. LOL :)


Maybe what NHRA should be doing is putting a maxium MPH for all 3 Super Classes.
From a fans point of veiw 8.90 at 190 MPH is not as appealing as a 8.90 at 160 MPH
without a throttle stop. can they really tell if the car is going 160 MPH or 190 MPH.

It appears that index racing is not for everybody, but I'm sure looking forward to learning more about it. Racing as many races as I can. Having FUN meeting new racers and making new friends.

O well my 2 cents not that its worth that much LOL ;)
Cal
HR 177X

Nitro Joe Jackson 12-08-2010 11:16 AM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
simple, take away the timers. Thats it, nothing else, leave the rest alone.

JThomas 12-08-2010 12:36 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitro Joe Jackson (Post 226638)
simple, take away the timers. Thats it, nothing else, leave the rest alone.

You sure do a lot of whining about timers for someone that doesn't even race the classes. :D

X-TECH MAN 12-08-2010 12:48 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitro Joe Jackson (Post 226638)
simple, take away the timers. Thats it, nothing else, leave the rest alone.

I know my opinion dosent count but I have to agree with Nitro Joe. Take away the timers and throttle stops and you guys might have 2 or 3 more spectators watching in the stands. Leave the rest alone !

jmcarter 12-08-2010 01:18 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Cal (and adding your signature to provide your real name is helpful), I've run several Super Street races and really enjoyed it, having a little success after mastering the timers and such. I think the .5 tree and minimum weights are the great equalizer that makes such a wide variety of cars capable of winning and entertaining to watch. Consequently, I think the classes should be left "as is" except for dropping the Scotty rule. Hope you continue to run 10.90 and get to know all the racers, great folks.

Barney B 12-08-2010 01:31 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Never go backwards in life, always look for room to improve, move ahead. Taking away timers is going backwards. "imo"

The only thing I would like to see change is someone let me win:)

BB no change is better than going backwards.

Chris Williams 12-08-2010 01:56 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barney B (Post 226667)
Never go backwards in life, always look for room to improve, move ahead. Taking away timers is going backwards. "imo"

Agree completely.

Chris Williams 12-08-2010 02:04 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Whatever the indexes, I'd like to see two changes:

1) As long as the index is relatively arbitrary, pick a nice round number. Whoever came up with x.90 was just not thinking clearly. Ever try to explain to someone that 8.898 is a breakout but 8.989 is really slow? Make it x.00. A breakout is obvious.

2) Make the distinctions not based on body type, just on index. Let a dragster that can't make the SC index run in SG, and so on. Have three or four classes (say 7.00, 8.00, 9.00, and 10.00) and just say "run watcha brung". If you have to say that a driver can only run one of these classes to keep the sharks out of the tank, fine.

My $.02.

THE LEGEND 12-08-2010 02:33 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
If everyone thinks a timer makes it easy JUMP ON IN THE WATER IS FINE.

In the other classes all you need is a bottle of shoe polish.

Leave them alone except do away with the Scotty Rule

Chip Johnson

Maverick 12-08-2010 02:33 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
I agree with Nitro Joe, There should not allow timers in a class that uses time as a base for the class:rolleyes:

Rich Biebel 12-08-2010 02:48 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JThomas (Post 226654)
You sure do a lot of whining about timers for someone that doesn't even race the classes. :D

Dude..you are way off base here about Joe....Anyone that has been around a while knows Joe raced and so do and did his parents and they go wayyyyyy back.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with delay boxes or throttle stops in drag racing. Timers are the single item that allowed big HP and big speed to invade .90 racing. Remove them and we go back to the exact same speeds as 20+ years ago.....and the racing was close all the way down the track usually within 1 car length ......just slower speeds...........


Big deal remove delay boxes than racers would use other means to stay green and would still cut near perfect lites.....remove throttle stops and racers are supposed to do what to get on the index? Add weight...use a fixed bolt.....use a high side chip thats a little to low........all the same stuff that was done 20+ years ago.

All the big engine builders throw out all their big engines and start building small engines.....How many manufacturers go out of business thanks to these changes......

If there are any changes made they should be PRO-gressive....not Re-gressive........Add a faster class....for those who want to run faster.....7.90

Yea I know they can't finish what they have now but they could drop xxxxx.... fill in the missing blank there LOL...........

The LL 12-08-2010 02:58 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by THE LEGEND (Post 226677)
If everyone thinks a timer makes it easy JUMP ON IN THE WATER IS FINE.

Chip Johnson

quote of the year

WW2RACING 12-08-2010 03:07 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
I think super street is fine. But super gas I feel you could lower the index to 9.50 and super comp to 8.50 and not hurt anyone. Average super gas car can go 9.50 as well as super comp 8.50.

JThomas 12-08-2010 03:25 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel (Post 226679)
Dude..you are way off base here about Joe....Anyone that has been around a while knows Joe raced and so do and did his parents and they go wayyyyyy back.

...

I have know Joe and his parents for a long time too(great people). I was just poking some fun at him. That is why I added the smiley face.

Rich Biebel 12-08-2010 03:28 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JThomas (Post 226686)
I have know Joe and his parents for a long time too(great people). I was just poking some fun at him. That is why I added the smiley face.

OHHH! Now I get it..They are nice people for sure....

X-TECH MAN 12-08-2010 03:34 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel (Post 226679)
Dude..you are way off base here about Joe....Anyone that has been around a while knows Joe raced and so do and did his parents and they go wayyyyyy back.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with delay boxes or throttle stops in drag racing. Timers are the single item that allowed big HP and big speed to invade .90 racing. Remove them and we go back to the exact same speeds as 20+ years ago.....and the racing was close all the way down the track usually within 1 car length ......just slower speeds...........


Big deal remove delay boxes than racers would use other means to stay green and would still cut near perfect lites.....remove throttle stops and racers are supposed to do what to get on the index? Add weight...use a fixed bolt.....use a high side chip thats a little to low........all the same stuff that was done 20+ years ago.

All the big engine builders throw out all their big engines and start building small engines.....How many manufacturers go out of business thanks to these changes......

If there are any changes made they should be PRO-gressive....not Re-gressive........Add a faster class....for those who want to run faster.....7.90

Yea I know they can't finish what they have now but they could drop xxxxx.... fill in the missing blank there LOL...........

Drop Alcohol Ha Ha cars and Alcohol dragsters and gain plenty of time. They dont pay thier own way anyway. I bet you all knew I was going to say that.....LOL.
Good idea about running 8.50 and 9.50. I dont think that would hurt anyone who runs the Super classes these days. Maybe 10.50 would work also in S/ST and H/R. Leave the stops, and delay boxes like you said but those timers need to go away. Its not about what Legend said about it being easy or hard....Its just one more thing to cost more money and like you said it brought the MPH up and made using the large and more expensive engines eaiser to get down the track with. Just another learning curve and more $$$$$. IHRA tried a 7.90 class years ago but it turned into T/D. If you want to run that fast join the T/D guys. Just my 2 1/2 cents from being around it for many years. I know you guys dont pay attention to me anyway but felt I needed to say this.

gmeyer 12-08-2010 03:43 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Leave everything alone in HR and SST it works.Along with the Min weight i would like to see a Max MPH of 135.

Barney B 12-08-2010 03:52 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
One thing I can promise is what ever the rules are I will be out there mixing it up:)

BB just wana race

Bob Verwold 12-08-2010 04:22 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Will they let us know before winter is over, so we have time to build new motors ?

mannymen 12-08-2010 04:22 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
The index racers don't use delay boxes and timers and do just fine. I say do away with them in the 10.90 classes. Plus make it for backhalf stock style front suspension cars only (No roadsters whatsoever). No tube chassis cars allowed

Tom Goldman 12-08-2010 04:23 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Williams (Post 226673)
Whatever the indexes, I'd like to see two changes:

1) As long as the index is relatively arbitrary, pick a nice round number. Whoever came up with x.90 was just not thinking clearly. Ever try to explain to someone that 8.898 is a breakout but 8.989 is really slow? Make it x.00. A breakout is obvious.

2) Make the distinctions not based on body type, just on index. Let a dragster that can't make the SC index run in SG, and so on. Have three or four classes (say 7.00, 8.00, 9.00, and 10.00) and just say "run watcha brung". If you have to say that a driver can only run one of these classes to keep the sharks out of the tank, fine.

My $.02.

Super Gas has always been a left hand steer ,roadster / door car class,AND should always stay that way regardless of other changes.
If a dragster cant run at least 8.90, it has no business being at a NHRA sportsman event !
Nobody ever said this is a cheap sport , if a racer cant afford an engine powerfull to move his 1900# dragster to an 8.90 ,[ and now days its hard to build a motor that DOES NOT have the horsepower to do that ] then they should go bracket racing, they have a class for everybody.
Tom
]

Rollins_2241 12-08-2010 04:49 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
"I think the .5 tree and minimum weights are the great equalizer that makes such a wide variety of cars capable of winning and entertaining to watch."

Agreed. In addition, my favorite solution to keep the spirit of Super Street alive is to raise the minimum weight 200 lbs. No extra tech or policing (same scales) and it would make most of the tube chassis cars move to S/G, where they should be.

Chris Williams 12-08-2010 05:16 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Goldman (Post 226702)
Super Gas has always been a left hand steer ,roadster / door car class,AND should always stay that way regardless of other changes.
If a dragster cant run at least 8.90, it has no business being at a NHRA sportsman event !
Nobody ever said this is a cheap sport , if a racer cant afford an engine powerfull to move his 1900# dragster to an 8.90 ,[ and now days its hard to build a motor that DOES NOT have the horsepower to do that ] then they should go bracket racing, they have a class for everybody.
Tom
]

I appreciate that, Tom. My point was that if you're going to move them all down (say SC to 8.00, SG to 9.00, etc.), give people who have an 8.5 second dragster today a place to run.

TruRacrMotorsports 12-08-2010 05:20 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
If you guys think taking timers out of class racing would bring the speeds down, I say BBBB SSSSSS....you'll just have people picking spots, counting, doing whatever and then driving the wheels off the cars. Chasing has always been seen as an advantage and people will find a way to do it. People don't setup on a .90....so why wouldn't picking spots and making sure you have room work?

Just stirring the pot...because that's how I roll....

Scotty (Wishing I was the "Scotty Rule" Scotty") Rienschield

Chris Williams 12-08-2010 05:26 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TruRacrMotorsports (Post 226716)
If you guys think taking timers out of class racing would bring the speeds down, I say BBBB SSSSSS....

Truer words were never spoken. IMHO, the only people who say "take away electronics" are people who aren't very good with them. :rolleyes:

The ONLY change taking away the timers would make is to make the MOVs bigger. Period. The races would be decided by .10s not by .001s. Big deal.

There would still be people in SC going 185 racing people going 160. People with money will still spend it for whatever perceived advantage they can get.

super comp 112 12-08-2010 06:42 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tom goldman (Post 226702)
super gas has always been a left hand steer ,roadster / door car class,and should always stay that way regardless of other changes.
If a dragster cant run at least 8.90, it has no business being at a nhra sportsman event !
Nobody ever said this is a cheap sport , if a racer cant afford an engine powerfull to move his 1900# dragster to an 8.90 ,[ and now days its hard to build a motor that does not have the horsepower to do that ] then they should go bracket racing, they have a class for everybody.
Tom
]

did anybody ever think maybe we should try to get the purse increased instead of worrying about spending more money to go faster for the same purse.

Chris Williams 12-08-2010 06:47 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by super comp 112 (Post 226728)
did anybody ever think maybe we should try to get the purse increased instead of worrying about spending more money to go faster for the same purse.

I don't know about you, but when I race an NHRA event, the purse means nothing, I'm racing for a statue of a little guy standing next to a slick :)

super comp 112 12-08-2010 07:02 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris williams (Post 226733)
i don't know about you, but when i race an nhra event, the purse means nothing, i'm racing for a statue of a little guy standing next to a slick :)

does the little guy standing next to the slick pay your bills? I know there are few making a living sportsman drag racing but atleast i would like to get a little back. When you can go to a local track and race for 2000.00 on a saturday night and 3 or 4 days later at a nhra event they want to hand you a check for 1500.00 plus decal money if they pay something is wrong.

Chris Williams 12-08-2010 07:08 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by super comp 112 (Post 226735)
does the little guy standing next to the slick pay your bills? I know there are few making a living sportsman drag racing but atleast i would like to get a little back. When you can go to a local track and race for 2000.00 on a saturday night and 3 or 4 days later at a nhra event they want to hand you a check for 1500.00 plus decal money if they pay something is wrong.

Never once even dawned on me that money came back out of racing...

lazrcng 12-08-2010 07:09 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
IMHO.........

Leave it the way it is for the current classes (10.90, 9.90, 8.90) and make a MPH limit (maybe?)

Make a new class 7.90 (any MPH you want)....call it Super Eliminator! :rolleyes:

I would suggest weight breaks by Cu.In, but you don't think there would be honesty issues would ya.........MPH is indisputable.

Or do nothing at all and we will still go racing without question!

super comp 112 12-08-2010 07:12 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris williams (Post 226737)
never once even dawned on me that money came back out of racing...

boy would i like to sell you parts. Also have some prime swamp land in florida if your interested.

Chris Williams 12-08-2010 07:14 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lazrcng (Post 226738)
Leave it the way it is for the current classes (10.90, 9.90, 8.90) and make a MPH limit (maybe?)

This has been brought up before, but I don't understand how it would work. So there are two ways to break out now (time and MPH). Which wins? Let's say there's a 175 mph limit. I run 8.89 @ 165, you run 8.90 @ 200, who loses? What if we both break out on both? Ugh...

And of course there'd have to be software changes at every track on the planet to make this MPH breakout stuff work...

Chris Williams 12-08-2010 07:18 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by super comp 112 (Post 226739)
boy would i like to sell you parts. Also have some prime swamp land in florida if your interested.

Don't know a single person in racing, ever, who if they had their books audited would show a dime of profit from racing -- without a sponsor. Period. No annual revenue from purses and contingency in the history of mankind has ever, ever, made up for the costs it took to win it if you look at it on an honest, long-term, and fully-depreciated basis. If people tell you they do, they're full of pooh.

super comp 112 12-08-2010 07:30 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris williams (Post 226741)
don't know a single person in racing, ever, who if they had their books audited would show a dime of profit from racing -- without a sponsor. Period. No annual revenue from purses and contingency in the history of mankind has ever, ever, made up for the costs it took to win it if you look at it on an honest, long-term, and fully-depreciated basis. If people tell you they do, they're full of pooh.

you are just what nhra wants more money then brains

Alan Sargent 12-08-2010 08:22 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Just leave the classes the way they are, IMO. I'm planning on running in Super Street (my first time running a "Super" category), occasionally, and I like the idea of running a throttle stop and all the gadgets that go with it. 10.90, 9.90 and 8.90 sounds good to me.

Chris Williams 12-08-2010 09:03 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by super comp 112 (Post 226745)
you are just what nhra wants more money THAN brains

You went back to fix the spelling and still got it wrong?

frank v 12-08-2010 09:25 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
get rid of roadsters in sg!

frank v 12-08-2010 09:27 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
just kidding

BLIND MULE 12-08-2010 10:15 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
About 8 years ago we had a dragster that would only run 8.88 wide open and we ran a few S/Comp races and did ok with NO STOP!!! Sherman Adcock said most racers would kill for that we ran about 152mph but we had to look back WAY BACK! We run the 1/8 mile 6.0 and 7.00 classes without a stop and we had HUGE success in 7.00 and we ran a S/ST race against all the stop cars and won it was it luck Maybe but we just moved some weight around and it has worked for us. In 2011 we are gonna run S/Gas with a stop but I'm sure it wont be easy! I would like to see the stops not used kinda more of a seat of the pants deal but we will race either way. Good luck to all in 2011!!!!!

cal 12-08-2010 10:27 PM

Re: What Changes In Super Classes Would You Like To See
 
Hello All
Thanks for your imput, it was very interesting. It really appears that leaving everything the way it is, is the best thing to do. :)

I am looking forward to this season. I just hope I can at least go a few rounds here and there. I hear there is a big learning curve in all 3 of these classes.

By the way for anyone wanting to know.
Calvin Starcher
Laplata MD

Owner Fas Trax of MD drag slot car racing in Hughesville MD

Cal
HR 177X


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