The Future of our class
 

We continue to complain about our future of stock and superstock but seem to do nothing about it. We have "rules" that make us different from bracket racing yet seem to ignore them when we see fit. You all know what I am talking about. We all seem to agree that parts should remain "stock" yet we have tons of "enhancements" to various parts of our cars. It is frustrating to see visible violations to rules even if non performance related being ignored. I do not claim know the rules completely but walking through the staging lanes even I can spot deviations from the rule book yet we all seem to accept them. Either we accept our fate of becoming another bracket class, or begin changing our rules to what the perception of our rules are, or start self policing our current rules. The NHRA is understaffed and we can not rely on them to perserve out class. We need to take care of ourselves. I realize the devil is in the details yet something must change soon or our class as it has been will soon be gone. We need to stop complaining an really ask "what can I do to help?" If we can all become ambassadors and regulators of our sport it will become what we want it to be. I would be proud to lead such a change but I believe we have much stronger leaders within our ranks that most of us already follow.


Most of you do not know me. I have been racing in stock for only 10 years (I have been involved with S/SS since birth in 1965) and by no means have a fast car. I enjoy the competive nature of our sport and will only continue as long as we are having fun doing so.

Happy Holidays to everyone.

Norm Webber
LSA 6635

Re: The Future of our class
 

Hi Norm

I am afraid that racers like you and I are mere pawns in a game that we cannot control. We can bitch and moan or take our toys home or just try and enjoy ourselves while we still can. I honestly don't know what the sport will look like when my young kids are old enough to jump behind the wheel.

Not to be totally negative--it seems that Stock has always been a dynamic, quickly evolving class and it has been around longer than us. Also, "self policing" does exist believe me! Most of the racers that I see in Stock take the class rules seriously. I'm not going to waste my time bitching about it but I think it's the NHRA's responsibility to meet us halfway.

Congratulations on your great season. Between you and Jody there were two wagons in the top ten!

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621

Re: The Future of our class
 

The issue of checking stocker legality is tough pre-race. Too many combinations, too many cars, not enough tech people to enforce. The real enforcer of legality for most racers is the paranoia you might get caught or personal integrity to adhear to the rules.

I have suggested to NHRA that perhaps they just need to add enforcement at the end of the race, and inspect the winning car post race, besides the usual safety check for everone that we go through now.

Just add the policy that all winners undergo technical inpection. Leave it open to what that means, driveshaft check, carb check , cam check who knows?. The policy might weed out illegal stuff through out the system by requiring "if you get a check, you will be clean". I would rather pull my car down if I had to at the end of a race and put it back together at home. Not a big deal if I took home a check.

By the way,

Have a great holiday too you guys!

Brian Thompson
P/SA 6665

Re: The Future of our class
 

There are quite a few guys out there that are flying,that for one reason or another don't
go a lot of rounds.They would only get torn down based how fast they go.And we all know that there are very few teardowns for any reason.
When the last pair go down the track it looks like rush hour in the Tokyo suway for everyone to get out of there.The last thing you'll see is a teardown session.
My opinion/solution?
Remove sportsman racers,up to and including Comp. (if the comp guys want to),from
nationals and run us at two sports nationals in each division.That's 14 races.Make the
points counting towards the W/C consist of the usual 5/8 divisionals and 2/4 sports nats.
The tourers can still run all the races they want.The budget guys get a bit of a break.
That,and a little budgeting work on the part of Glendora would free up enough caash to pay the divisin tech people what they deserve for what they do.It would also pay for the equipment needed to do the work.
Hell,they just voted two more cash cows to the board,so they could figure out a way to come up with the cash to fund a quality tech dept.
Lastly no more East coast/West coast rule book.
I'll put the bong down now and retire to my bedroom.

Re: The Future of our class
 

[QUOTE= I'll put the bong down now and retire to my bedroom.[/QUOTE]

Hey! That's really rude of you not to share! ;)

Re: The Future of our class
 

They used to do just that. We won two national events in two weeks and came apart both times post race. It was the way they did things they were not picking on us.
We were surprized they did not take us apart after the world finals.
In 73 (I believe) both winner and runnerup were tossed at the E'town national event. There was no winner.

Re: The Future of our class
 

Re: The Future of our class
 

Thats how we did it in IHRA back in the 70's. I remember checking Dave Boertmans 383 several times after he kicked butt after the finals.

Re: The Future of our class
 

Ed,
As much as we all complain about the pros I think most of us would not want to be removed from the “Big Show” even though most of the spectators don’t even know we exist.
I think what they should do is after final qualifying pick a set number of competitors at EVERY race seal their motors and tell them to report for a tear down after their eliminated or if their lucky after the final. That way it does not affect anyone still in competition and it spreads the work out for the tech guys.
I also think the tech guys jobs in some ways could be made easier while allowing them to be more through. For instance they should have a photo album of cars and trim options to ensure everyone is racing what they are claiming. I go to the trouble of changing hoods depending on what combo I’m running while I hear stories of people rebadging cars that are not even built on the same platform that they are claiming.

Re: The Future of our class
 

Bill,that was my solution.As long as we go to nationals,as they are structured now and the type of spectators who attend,we'll continue to be treated like ***** and used like the cash cows that we've become.

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x 2

Re: The Future of our class
 

Too many motor types and specs to check. It would be totally counter to religion of Stock and SS with the motors having "specs" but Mod production only type motors 2 barrel, 4 barrell, 2/4 or injection and lb/cubic inch would remove many opportunities to Cheat. Pump them at the end of the track by the scales and go home.
No more cam cheating, crank cheating, rod cheating, piston cheating.
No I dont like it but it would cure a lot.

Re: The Future of our class
 

Yeah of course you're right Dick. It would cure a lot. Mostly it would cure many people from the addiction they now have (class racing) and give them time to persue another endeavour. I think you're over-estimating the number of people that can actually afford to build a competitive comp style engine.

Jerry

Re: The Future of our class
 

All racers see the "issues" from THEIR prospective. What car they own affects their stand. What brand they support, what dealers give them parts etc etc.
We have all been tied to the "factory Spec" ideas so long any major leveling of the fields by common specs or parts is FOREIGN and OFFENSIVE.
Look at sports car club racing. (my limited knowledge). One motor, one class. Bigger motor another class. Sealed motors to keep costs down. Different Brands in separate classes.
Many months ago Jim Boburka and myself and others suggested Common specs for three brands with common wt cars. All based on Current available over the counter parts.
A FOREIGN idea if you own a car to sell, or only know one motor or stuck in your ways.
Much like super modified with Limited flat top piston, head combinations. Cheaper, over the counter and use in body styles you may already have in the garage.
When started could be divided by wts into multiple classes if needed.
Win with a tune up, traction set up, tire or gear choices. DRIVING SKILL. Not bogus HP ratings, Bogus specs, Ignored combinations from archives.

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Dick as an AMC racer I think your idea sucks and smacks of discrimination towards
independent brand cars.:>)

Re: The Future of our class
 

Ed, I like this ideal of yours best, because I could care less about being at a national event with the pros...they (and the alcoholic cars), get most of the tv air-time anyhow, so I won't go out of my way to watch them at any national events I might attend, when I can go home and see them on ESPN. I'd rather watch Stock & Super Stock (when not racing myself). I wish there would be more sportsnationals (sans the Tad's and Tafc's), for the reasons you stated...thanks Ed! MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU 2!!!

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This sounds like IHRA's Super Stock Production classes. 2 barr. 4 barrel, (multi carbs years ago but no longer being used) limited to stock stroke cranks (no wierd cu. inches or wacky comp. type ground cranks. Limited to cubic inches produced by the factory but with a max of .070 overbore blocks. Ported alum heads with factory numbers and NO welding allowed. Not quite mod production or comp engines but not like S/S either with factory specs. It used to be VERY popular in IHRA years ago. It could work but in the long run someone with more money than brains would screw it up for the little guy.

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Dick, I think that is a great idea with just a couple of suggestions, the engines would have to be built and sealed by "approved" engine builders with a "pre-agreed to" price and availability and a "claimer" rule that the winners engine could be bought post-race at a "set price" that would be significantly lower than a new replacement. You get NHRA (and enough racers) to agree to that an you'll have something!

Re: The Future of our class
 

Ed, What no AMC 350 blocks, or motors, or heads. The classes I listed were a starter which could be adapted to 90% of current racers. Others could run as is in their classes if wanted or if the 1 % of AMC racers wished I am sure a similar AMC type motor could be created with their input...Remember the goal of the topic was the best for the CLASSES not the best for ED or AMC or Dick BUtler or any one faction. It was with the overall group or classes as a goal. Jeff or other great running AMC guys could adapt.
Billy, if we could find a BIG corp like JEGS to push it and who would earn money from production of the motors it would FILL the pits with cars.

Re: The Future of our class
 

Nhra has lost the handle along time ago on Stock Eliminator rules enforcement,as the rules changed camshafts,springs,it was increasingly easier for racers and nhra to look the other way accordingly.Depending on what era you grew into, 60's,70's,80's,etc I think has a direct influence on what and how you build your car, integrity now has been compromised for winning at any cost. Cost of racing has skyrocked more so for the technology that has trickled down through to Stock, but what has been lost is the definition of our class, once known as a entry level class, now has become more expensive than what it took to run a Pro Stock in the 70's. Were all guilty for the sake of going faster we have excepted this racing and its rules structure and ultimately its demize because INTEGRITY, HONESTY,and RULES, have been thrown out the window.I once changed classes from Super/Stock back to Stock because the cylinder head rule changed and spending $5000 and more to keep up performance was out of the question now I find myself again at a crossroad,$50,000 and up Stockers just doesnt make sense.Acid dipped bodies,acid dipped cylinder heads,$4000 headers,55mm camshafts,light wt valves,spools, axles, brakes, transmissions,suspension pieces front and back, and racepak computers,have all been overlooked and excepted as the normal thing to due. The Stock Eliminator world has a ever changing horizon but a $100,000 race car, trailer,truck,support equipment,etc doesnt seem worth the investment just to win $3000 to $12,000 dollars and Wally if your ever lucky enough to win the Big Show and still be treated worse than a local bracket racer at your local track.....just my 2cents.

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Ouch, You think. You are not alone.

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x 10

Re: The Future of our class
 

I think the price of some of the cars are out of line but if people want to spend that much on a car its up to them. Just because a car cost that much does not get to the winners circle have the new cars dominated in regular elimination no. Going for class wally's they have done well and qualified well. There are still combo's that can run with the new cars they just need to be used and worked on there is some soft combo's out there they may not be the best looking cars but can be fast. My 10,000 stocker runs with the best of them in normal elimination, yes it will be faster this next season do to work and money but no where near the amout as the new cars. I have beaten some expensive cars and some of the top 10 nation points guys this year with an inexpensive stocker. In the northwest we have policed are self a couple of times should there be more self policing I say yes ask a question is a car not legal get the rule book out and find out by asking the text guys. There are some cars that have things that are not legal that should not be able to get away with.