Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Ok, gave up on motorhome idea, but now this new Ford Eco-Boost has got my curiosity up.
New Ford Turbo V6 has 365 HP 420 ft lbs torque, 11,300 towing capacity. New combo supposed to be good for around 20 daily driving. Just drove one @ Ford dealer, computer showed that truck was currently averaging 22 mpg-and this was a demo unit being supplied to dealers for prospective customers, gotta believe it wasn't being driven easily....ya think?
Currently towing with a 2007 Powerstorke F250.
Diesel gets10mpg towing, 15-16 everyday driving.

Currently around my house there is .34 gallon difference between gas & diesel, and we all know gas/diesel forecast for end of year.

Truck would pull primarily to D4 & D5 events from Kansas City home base. Probably tow to 10-12 events year. Otherwise truck is a daily driver.

I realize this is a new combo from Ford, but reading and studying up on it, I'm pretty impressed with their use of technology to be able to provide these kind of numbers out of a 1/2 ton. Chassis & brakes appear to be up to the task.

I'm pulling a 24' Pace, 68 Camaro combo. Loaded trailer weight 9300

Thoughts? Opinions? Comments?

There is a lot of knowledge represented on this forum, would appreciate your thoughts, & please, stay on topic this time.

Thanks,

Unk
__________________

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

That thing got a Hemi?

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Yea, for lunch........

:-)

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Now Unk, I gotta tell you. That towing capacity don't take the wind into consideration which a race car trailer is the absolute worst for wind. I would figure minimum camper top and wind deflector. Now about that turbo, sounds great on paper, but builds a lot of heat under steady heavy load. The harder you pull a turbo, the more it spools and the more heat it builds, and it's gotta pull hard for a 6 cyl to make that much hp and tqe. On the wind, my conversion (32 ft, 500 cummins, ) picked up 30% fuel economy when I put a wind deflector on the top to get the breeze over the top of the stacker. Also dropped about 5 to 10 degrees operating temperature. Just my opinion. I like a 3/4 ton Diesel.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

What Jeff said. (Not the part about the Hemi.)

c

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

2003 duallie 4X2 Cummins turbo....6 speed stick....373 gear....sweet....22 MPG....44ft gooseneck 75-80 all day long. My accelerator pedal has never seen the floor mat. Towing, the pedal is only a 1/2 inch off idle at highway speed. Change the oil and filter regular and just drive it. 160k and replaced the brake pads one time, the tires one time. My wife ask me the other day if I wanted to get a new truck..(she just got a new hybrib something or another)....I said "if I thought for a minute, I could get one as good as this....I might"

Wade Mahaffey

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

I like overkill when it comes to towing. That new eco-boost is a little too close to the edge for me. Like the others, I'd get something with a Cummins.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Ken

I've seen that along with the rest of the videos. I've also been reading/studying.
.
I've always thought the diesel was the answer too, but with modern technology comes new ways of doing things.

The Europeans have been doing alot with small motors/turbo's etc for years, why can't the US do the same? Because we have always done it this way?

All of which got me to tinking about this combo, and consequently prompted me to pose the question on the forum.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Let's revert to good old common sense. Do you really think that a 213 CID engine pulling a 24 ft enclosed trailer with a heavy *** old camaro plus parts, tools, beer, and who knows what else is gonna do the job? You think that thing just goes down the road and rolls along easily with all that load? Unk, you been in the tower too long in that thin air. At least get the big Ford motor. Think going down the road with no vacuum that activates all the power adders in that thing to make it work. It ain't made to work that hard for that long. Sorta like me. This is tireing me out here.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Bob, you need lower RPM torque for towing. A diesel would be better. I wouldn't recommend a new one. New EPA regs call for the particulate filters since 2007 which kill you when towing. They keep going into "re-gen" mode to clean that filter. Mileage drops like a rock in that mode. I would look for a nice 2006 model, or if you can find an early 2007 without that filter. Best towing mileage. I have friends that traded older models in for new ones and are sick they did.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Unk,

Diesel, it's what ya do, to tow, end of story !!!!!!!!!!!!

I reckon you already have the tool ya need for the job. Either send me the money you were gonna spend on the new fangled piece or get a Jappo 4 cyl. for a daily driver.

I've heard of some extraordinary mileage numbers from cummins owners, but can ya really trust those type of people !!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Did I ever think that I'd be having this discussion? Nope, but then I look @ new technology Mustangs running 140mph+ at 67% throttle, and Challengers running in the 10.40's (off the throttle?) when the cars they compete against go 10.90's on a good day, down hill, with a tail wind.

Technology marches on, if it works in race cars, why can't it work in other vehicles? Case in point....We've got ways to provide the vacuum we need in race cars, certainly woulldn't be that hard to do in a street vehicle would it?

Yea, I'd like to hook one up to my trailer too see for myself, but right now I'm studying, and asking questions.

Besides, I don't haul beer in my trailer....... Crown Royal & Grey Goose yes, but beer no. Lighter weight ya know.......

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

The Europeans don't tow like racers in the USA. I also would not tow the load you have with a 1/2 ton truck.....can't stop the darn thing.

I have a 2004 Dodge Cummins and did have a 1999 Ford Powerstroke. I resisted the change to diesel for years but once I did and made the first tow, I was hooked. Up the hill.....down the hill.....70 MPH and 14.5 MPG with trailer loaded to about 8,000 pounds.

Besides that, when your gas engine hits about 170K miles and is worn out....the diesel is just getting worn in.

....and one very very important piece of advice....if you like Grey Goose you have to try Tito's Vodka. Some snobs rate it higher then Kettle One and Grey Goose. It is made in Austin, TX of all places. When I sip vodka....Tito's is my new brand...and this is from a person that loved Kettle One and Grey Goose...for years and years.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

I would be more worried about stopping. I know you have horses too. I have seen some of my wife's friends got all excited about the euro style Brenderup trailers. They are very light. They did the math and hooked them up to V6 blazers and Ford explores, etc. They were scared plenty in any wind and dropped trannies like mad. All I am saying is that to them, it looked good on paper. In reality, not so good.

If it is possible, maybe you could keep the race rig separate and buy a little Ford Focus for driving around the city?

I drive my Duramax daily in the Chicago suburbs. It pisses me off that the diesel is as high as premium and there isn't really a good reason for it. That being said, I get 21-22 mpg and it's paid for. Pretty low cost per mile. It pulls our old trailer great as well.Not bad for 240,000 truck.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Looks like a lot of old thinking here. With all do respect to everyone who thinks the new 1/2 tons are incapable of handling a 10000 lbs trailer safely. You guys are looking at these vehicle from the old school view of 1/2 ton's. If your towing 15000 lbs plus, I can see going with a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck, but for a 10000 lbs trailer, its not needed. Has anyone here driven a 2011 1/2 ton, Ford, GM, Dodge that's properly equipped, towing a trailer? They are all rated to tow 10000 lbs trailers.

The truck Bob is looking at has a tow rating of 11,300 lbs. Do you think Ford would overrate there towing capability, or GM and Dodge for that matter.

The chassis is thicker, the trans is better, the brakes are much better. The Ford engine makes peak torque at 2500 rpm. They come with sway control and a trailer brake controller. These trucks are made to tow. You guys need to open your mind to new technology, it blows the old stuff away.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Just find it hard to believe that a 231 v6 is gonna move a 7-10000 pound trailer with a 3:15 gear gotta take ya a half hour to get up to 60 MPH---I dont care what Ford says----Take one home from the dealer and load up all yer stuff and take it out on the hiway see if it makes ya happy--If it does buy it if it doesnt do the job look at something else--Got 204000 on my 2000 Ford Super Duty---replaced some stuff but man this thing has some balls---it will move my 10000 pound trailer across the parking lot at an idle cannot believe that V6 is gonna do that--Comp

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

My initial concern is detonation on a non-diesel block and heads. I'm sure there are all kinds of safe-guards there to protect it from that.

Is that the same as the FLEX and SHO engine? I keep saying it, Ford sure has some cool stuff on the market!

Off subject, did any body see the 1 hour presentation on Speed Channel on the new Boss 302? Oh man...! :D

OK, I just watched all the video's...That HEMI gets eaten for breakfast and the 5.3 Chebby gets eaten for lunch AND diner! Wholly crap!

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

dont go with a 1/2 ton esp a v6.

i borrowed a friends 1/2 ton 4x4 dodge, 2001, with the 360 automatic, with a 1500lbs trailer and my 2900lbs nova that thing acted like you were trying to pull a semi with triples behind it, 1/2's suck for towing period end of story.

get or keep the diesel.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

The new Ford combo certainly sounds interesting, but it still doesn't sound like something I would want to tow heavy with. In my opinion, anything over 5,000 that is a bumper pull is heavy.

I don't care for unneeded stress when I am driving. I want to tow with a 1 ton dually when towing heavy. I don't care how technologically advanced that Ecoboost engine or the new 1/2 tons, it isn't a dually. A dually or even a truck doesn't make as good a daily driver as a nice passenger car in our local Metromess. Fuel mileage isn't everything and ranks down the list for me.

I think you are going to end up with a so, so tow vehicle and a so, so daily driver. It is your money and your blood pressure. Please let us know how it works out if you do decide to get the new Ford.

Don

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Ken, it's not a case of being closed minded. Personally, for the price of these trucks, I would only buy something with a proven track record. Not just "will it do the job", but will it do it for years to come. Will it still be doing it a 300K? If somebody trades up every year or two, it's a different story.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

I can't see buying anything new. Makes no money sense. I'm not poor, but I never buy new vehicles. Unless you pay cash or make a big down payment your upside down in that sucker for a good while. Finding a nice one a couple years old makes a lot more money sense. Let somebody else take that first depreciation hit. Long term supercharged or turbo charged engine have more problems. The more you stress a smaller engine the more likely it is to have problems.

My experience with customers who bought 1/2 ton " towing package" vehicles for towing their travel/camper trailers has been they have not been that happy. They will tow the weight for which they are rated, but not as easily as people like.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Bob,

(A) Win another national event :D
(B) Sell the race car :mad:
(C) Problem Solved ;)

Yours Truly,
Gary

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Unk, you do know that in testing those new trucks for towing they all use a flat bed trailer and add flat pieces of measured weight on the test track. The wind seperates the men from the boys. Why do you think the big rig manufacturers go to such lengths to get the wind around the trucks. You need to drink a few Grey Gooses or try this Absolute Brooklyn Vodka with Red Apple and Ginger. That is what you need to get your wishful thinking over with. Let's see 213 inches with 420 lb/tqe @ 2500 rpm. The only way that can happen is the turbo spools violently. Probably works and gets the truck moving and probably mileages. That violent spooling @ 65 (if it will go that fast with your trailer and heavy *** car and bottles of Vodka) is making enough heat to cook a burger real well. What I have been telling customers succesfully for years that want to pull a camper occasionaly with a 1/2 ton truck. If they are mostly going within 100 or so miles and are willing to put up with weak performance because they just don't use it that often, then it is fine. I always caution them about the truck trying to shift out of overdrive too often, and push the tow button. You gotta help the motor out. Anyway I can't help you no more. Modern technology aint that modern. This crap been around for years. Gary has the real cure, but we are all too stupid to listen.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

What Jeff said!!

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

I towed with a 1/2 ton gas 2005 5.3 Chevy with 3.73 gears. It felt maxed out to me with a 4700 lb package but was rated far more. Go with a diesel 3/4 or 1 ton truck. Better brakes and more stable on the road at speed. You wont be sorry if you travel a lot. .
My friend tows with a 3/4 ton (non dually) Dodge 4 door with a 5.7 Hemi gas (nice truck Jeff) and it does good with the same 4700 lb package of open trailer and 1965 Plymouth Satillite. The Dodge has 4.10 gears and an extra lower gear in the auto trans. He carries a ton of extra stuff in the bed when he goes racing. Gas millage was OK at around 13 and 14 on both trucks towing. I got 20 to 22 MPG with the Chevy not towing driving to work and my friend gets around 19 not towing. I wouldnt use a small engine truck with 2 turbos or blowers. Its just over worked.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Wow, what a tough crowd. So all the literature is wrong on the 1/2 tons but its right when it comes to the 3/4 and 1 tons.

I think you need to take bais out of some or your opinions. No one here has ever towed with the new 2011 1/2 tons.

Jeff, with all do respect, new is better, not a little ......... a whole lot ! Just a 5 year old truck is obsolete compared to the new stuff. Would you rather tow with a 1990 1 ton or a 2011?

Bob, I know you posted this topic for expert advice, but in my opinion they are based on bias, not fact.

I think the new trucks are great and would definitely purchase one as a dual purpose vehicle.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

What kind of work do you do, Ken?

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

I have a buddy who purchased a new F350 and he is not happy with 8.5 mph towing a 34ft toy box type travel trailer. I get with a couple of mph with my motor home.
Keep in mind that it is new truck with only a few miles. But it is a very nice truck.

Jeff you have way to much time in your hands to come up with the BS, but you are a "USED CAR" salesman.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

lol...................

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Bobby, that's what I'm hearing from guys buying the new diesels with the particulate filter. When towing they don't get the mileage the older truck did. They go into the filter cleaning mode often when towing, even more if you "turn the wick up".

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Sorry. I don't know him.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

I have friends that purchased 2009 3/4 ton and 1 ton diesel pickups and they are not happy with the fuel mileage. Smog equipment is apparently the major factor in the reduced fuel mileage.

In California you are now required to pass a smog check every two years on 1997 and newer.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Exactly!!!!! And no one anywhere has towed with one after it's past 100K.
New product "literature" is known for being a little "nuanced" to put it mildly.

Ah....Bob, check the batteries in your caculator.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Man this is REALLY unbiased?.....this is funny.....


Anyway, here is the deal....I tear apart and upfit the FORDS, CHEVYS and DODGES for a living, everything from 1/2 tons up, I see them everyday and drive them too, with and without trailers....pick your brand but the facts are that a 1/2 ton will always be a towing/daily driver compromise if you are towing a race car trailer....will it do the job?, yes, but there is always something better no matter what you have.....The better compromise would be a 3/4 ton....same physical size as a 1/2 ton but a LOT better for your towing needs without a large hit for fuel mileage, plus it gives you the diesel option since no one has pulled the trigger for a diesel 1/2 ton yet....the 3/4 ton gives you bigger bearings, bigger brakes, stronger transmissions and axle assemblies.....

Want to read an unbiased towing test pick up the latest DIESEL POWER mag and read the test pitting a 2011 FORD 1 ton against a 1 ton CHEVY.....it will let you know who really believes in their product....

I personally run the 3/4 ton diesel myself which works great for me cause I can let anyone drive it (my wife has driven over 80,000 miles in it herself) and I can pull darn near anything I want with it without any concerns.....

D L Rambo.....

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

DL, how did that test turn out? How did the Dodge do? I have not seen that magazine.

Thanks

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Okay Ron, you have made it clear how you feel along with most. I am in the minority, but my opinion is the new truck Bob is looking at will work fine.

DL, Bob was looking for an alternative to a diesel. I think is pretty clear that a 3/4 ton diesel makes a great tow rig, he was just asking about other options.

Ed, I don't know Ken very well, maybe you can ask X-TECH MAN (Terry bell) what he does. He seems to know it all.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Bob U., Look at the FORD Truck web site where they have an ongoing test of the eco trk (V-6) ! They have it on dyno for 160K miles, then they took it to Oregon to be a log skidder for an unknown length of time, I forgot what it was, then they took the truck to Hempstead track in FL, where they hooked up to a flatbead Trailer with 2 NASCAR race cars, weighing gross 11,300 # and towed it around the track for 24 hours, a total of approx 1625 mi, at an average speed of approx, 84mph ! They then took the same truck and ran a BAHA race in So Cal, and finished pretty well, then they headed back to the Dyno, and a teardown.! Myself, I was impressed !My self, I tow with my 96 Dodge dualie,w/cummins,w/5speed,and a 3.54 gear ! It has 322,000 mi, average mpg w/trailer @ 65mph is around 25-26 mpg! With trailer, 28' Pace Big Foot, golf cart, tools,3700 # car, and other sh#t, at 65 mph, 14-15 mpg. I was offered 3000.00 for the truck at my local dealer, told him to stuff it ! Its in nice condition ! You asked for opinions, thats mine ! Good Luck..........John

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

I can tell you from experience.Ken is a Bon Vivant.I've seen him eat peanut butter and jelly
and a pepsi while watching reruns of South Park.

Re: Input, take 2, & leave the politics out!
 

Sounds like good work if you can get it.