Roller rockers
 

I saw on here once before IHRA allows roller rockers in Stock. Are you allowed to run FULL roller rockers or just roller tips? Is this just for crate motors or all?

Re: Roller rockers
 

You can run full roller rockers of the correct rocker ratio for your combo. No "Over the top" style such as Jessel. or shaft rockers on a chev or individual stud rockers on something like a 340/360 MoPar. You have to maintain the OEM configuration and mounting. This came about to increase reliabiliy in some engines because of the extream valve spring pressures being used on todays stockers.

Re: Roller rockers
 

Thanks Terry,

Re: Roller rockers
 

It would be nice if NHRA took this same enlightened approach.... it would save money and broken parts.

Re: Roller rockers
 

Dear Marv,
If you want to use roller rockers, NHRA will let you. You can also put in a roller cam and an aluminum intake manifold and you can even use a transbrake valve body in the trans. They call it SUPER STOCK. You have to be careful what you wish for, you might wake up one morning and find out that your stocker can only run in Super Stock. Since Indy in 1985, when over a dozen stockers got bounced from tech for improper valve spring pressure, the stocker rules have been diluted and corrupted from the original concept and pushed closer to Super Stock rules. Unlimited cam duration, any valve job,beehive valve springs with unlimited valve pressure, non factory lifters all used to be Super Stock only items, now found on every stocker that can afford them. I know we can't go back to the old rules but roller rockers in stockers will just put one more nail in Stock Eliminator's coffin. Call me when you get a chance.
John

Re: Roller rockers
 

Marv I agree & having an Olds I understand how this simple change could fix a pis poor factory set-up. I'm sure the big block Chevy guys would love it too.

Re: Roller rockers
 

I'm not having any rocker trouble. I'm not wanting roller rockers in Stock.

Re: Roller rockers
 

Greg, at least the BB Chevy guys can get good aftermarket replacement parts for their valvetrains (hardened rockers, better metals, etc.). Trying to find or engineer stuff that works on your own can cost a fortune on a combo that's not mainstream.

Re: Roller rockers
 

John, you forgot about aluminum heads, 4-link & coilovers, wheel tubs, big tires, little seats, motor plates, etc. It costs a lot more to setup an SS car that's competitive... not looking for power edge (at least not with repl rockers) just parts that won't break and don't cost a mint (and can be found). OH! wait a minute.... these are RACE cars -- NOTHING is cheap!!! ..... LOL

Re: Roller rockers
 

Marvin: Get a hold of Jim Bailey. He can fix your rocker problems.

http://www.finishedracing.com/

Re: Roller rockers
 

No mainstream combo and no rocker troubles here.Leave it alone.

Re: Roller rockers
 

Stump pullers don't need high rpm. Tray lifters $28.00 Sealed Power selected rockers with three piece steel pivots $68.00 CP Products valve springs $48.00 ----150 seat 350 open. Perfect machine and assembly.

Re: Roller rockers
 

What is considered extreme valve spring pressure in a stocker?

Re: Roller rockers
 

Some of the composite lifter engines have moderate roller-type pressures. They even recommend starting at 170-180 closed on the seat.

Re: Roller rockers
 

Any pressure that requires a "Shubeck" style modified lifter that cost more than roller lifters thats used in S/S ! Like Danny (Hi Dan) said in the post below......150 lbs seat pressures 350 open MAX should be all you need. Saves wear and tear, less breakage from lower RPM's like a stock engine was designed for. Then you could run the OEM stuff until rebuild time. Some of these "Stockers" are being turned up to "Never Never land" on the shift points and in the traps. No wonder the racing associations had to allow aftermarket rods (more expense). Stock was never meant to be S/S. Max valve spring pressures in this range would be one rule change I would vote for instead of allowing S/S type replacement parts every time someone breaks an engine because of turning a stocker to 8200 + RPM with a stock capacity oil pan. This is also one reason some have used "Cheater" heads and intake manifolds over the years to allow for more air flow. Its the Associations fault for letting the rules get out of hand.....not the racers. They just use what the associations allow but it cost EVERYONE more and more to stay competitive. My 2 1/2 cents and Im sticking to it !

Re: Roller rockers
 

add a hundred

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Hi Terry------You're dead on. Worst rule change ever. Started all this BS.

Re: Roller rockers
 

Hi bud......Its good to hear from you. Its a nice 77 degrees here in sunny Fla. today....lol. I see your listed as being in Florida ? Question is....how can the stock racers every get this stuff changed back to some sort of sanity?

Re: Roller rockers
 

Hi Terry---I'm still working in Va. with a connection to Jensen Beach for the past 15 years. Wish I was down there with you full time but still have family obligations. I'm afraid class racing will never get back to what we grew up with and love. Too much work for the new sanctioning bodies run by bean counters and not people like you and Farmer. Majority of the class racers are eligable for Social Security and still racing the cars they bought new. As Macarthur said, like the old soldier, "They'l just fade away". As for me I'm putting my ( bought new ) Black 66W30 2dr post together for D/S . So find yourself something to race ( 4 speed of course ) and Craig and I will come to an association race down ther and try to wear your ***** out. Then fry up some burgers and dogs and drink alot of beer. :)

Re: Roller rockers
 

LOL....sounds good ole friend. Ive been looking and there is one or two Im seriously considering. One is an A/ stick car. I still have my health and got a good buck for my old place in Md. I can afford it now with the left over money after moving here but my garage is much smaller than what I had before and Im having a hard time parting with the $$$$$$.....LOL. The money is to hard to come by being retired (or is that retarded?) Its much more expensive these days as you well know. There are not many that I would love to be out run by other than the "Old Guard". Your ride sounds "SWEET". Take care and drink one for me. See you at the races.
Terry

Re: Roller rockers
 

My AMX in D/S had 450#'s open pressure when it was running 10.50's. And I know some guys (multi-makes) running around 480#'s nowadays.
I shifted mine at 6800 RPM, not something I would call "extreme", went through the traps about the same.
Broke rockers all the time. Coated them, cryo'd them, ARP 7/16" studs (AMC is like a SBC rocker assembly) best fix was adjust valves every two to three runs. Guide plates & unlimited style valve spring were not legal at the time.
If I were doing it again I would try 7/16" dual taper pushrods with guide plates & a double (triple?) spring.

Some would say the cam profile was wrong. I don't know, had about a half-dozen in the car over the years, all custom grinds. Didn't break rockers too often until the spring pressures got up to 420. But then again the car got faster with the cam and springs.

Now when you look at it, NHRA will allow $1000 billet or tool steel cam cores, $800 Schubeck lifters (that may take out your engine) or tool steel lifters, they'll allow $600 push rods, they will allow beehive or ANY valve spring you want (neither allowed when I ran Stock) that can approach $500 a set, stainless valves, $750+ BBC 8.2L rockers with the whammy treatment and 1/2" rocker studs....but it would be ridiculous to allow $279 Crane Gold roller rockers that would live with the rest of the valve train! :rolleyes:

Re: Roller rockers
 

But Jeff their not "stock" (unless you have an LT4 vette) besides we get enough sticker money why would we want to get it for rocker rams?

Re: Roller rockers
 

Even with the milder RPM's you ran at I suspect the "square lobe" cam I assume you started running and the increased spring pressure required to make the lifter follow the lobe was a cause of the breakage. Stock just "Ain't" stock anymore. Its wilder than the early early early Modified Production engines. I know they are more modified and wilder than my SS/IA 68 Camaro engine was in 1977-78 !

Re: Roller rockers
 

In regards to the solid lifters being an issue: How is it that bracket racers are running near .680 -.700 lift mechanical cams and not breaking lifters???

The factory rocker arms with the higher spring pressures I understand, but the lifters I don't.

A very good friend of mine was running a custom (BBC) high lift mechanical/solid cam from Crower and never had any issues with his$100 set of lifters breaking. He would easily get 400 passes on them shifting in the mid 7k range.

Re: Roller rockers
 

nothing to do with lift, all has to do with ramp rate. if you have 260@.050 duration on a .750 lift cam that is one thing, now if you have .300 less lift your ramp rate is increased dramatically with the same duration

Re: Roller rockers
 

That's why anybody can build a fast bracket racing type engine.
Likewise, my 3160+ weight stocker with .457" maximum lift cam and a little 600 CFM Autolite carb can beat most Dominator equipped .700" lift engines which weigh 300 #'s less. Of course that's part of the fun...

Re: Roller rockers
 

One of my favorite things to discuss is cryogenic processing. I love when someone tells me I tried that a couple years ago and it didn't work. Well, a couple years ago you ran your computer with dos.....cryogenic processing ain't what it use to be! Additionally, all cryo is not the same! There are new machines,(very important), new programing available, and unlimited control over the process. Some new machines never directly expose the parts to the liquid nitrogen. It even has cause some manufactures to say their parts are already cryo'd. OK, but was it done correctly? Ask what machine was used, old it is, and how long did the process take. Ask questions. ( you can't cryo a part, correctly, in less than 3 days -72 hours-).We've developed programs that have eliminated roller lifter breakage in Pro Stock, eliminated valve spring breakage, eliminated timing chain stretch, and done a very good job with rear end gears and stock stamped steel rockers, among other parts that fail. I will tell you that dry ice in a bucket isn't used, and that all parts are treated with different programs, and, I can make your high speed drill bits last 10 times longer - guaranteed. JB.

Re: Roller rockers
 

All very good points Jim!

Re: Roller rockers
 

Mr. Bailey, i think is right on target with cryogenics done properly it works very well. ive also used the metaltt lax process . what i like about metal lax is before you treat the part it gives you a graph showing how tight the grain structure is before you start, then what it is after a cycle. i know on titanium it machines better and holds up longer. for example, titanium rods in a sprint car used to change , every 2 weeks. after metal lax , 6 weeks without breaking one. anyone else on this?