How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

What would it take to get the NHRA sportsman racers to support the IHRA more? Try to be serious with your answers, because they could bring about change for the positive. I do know that there are many racers that support both bodies. And there are some that just can't seem to do it. I understand the rules enforcement issues, and some difference in class structure. I know the difference in the race tracks themselves, but from the starting line to the finish line the racing seems the same (other than 1/4 vs. 1/8). Then there's the money.......but if you loose first or second round....you came away with more....cause the entry was less (thats 75% of the competitors for each race). I would bet that there are a few things that (I) does, that (N) folks would like to see on there side.

I'm just wondering what a NHRA sportsman racer would have to see, to think to themselves....hey, I think I'm gonna try some of that IHRA stuff!

Remember folks, you never know who might see some of your good ideas! I know....you said it once, and you'll say it again. My thing is keep saying it...till the right people hear it!

Wade Mahaffey

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Some honest answers would be interesting.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Wade, as someone who is going to dip my toes into the IHRA waters for the first time this year, I wonder some of the same things that you do. Previously we had always been "happy enough" with our NHRA experience to not look elsewhere. However right now I believe that IHRA has more of the sportsman racers' interest at heart than NHRA. They have separated the factory cars, having double points races is great, etc. Some of the negatives I see are way too many classes (i mean really, a fwd conversion cavalier stocker?), 1/8 mile points races completely disinterest some people, and historically lower car counts discourage some as well. What few rule variations there are I don't really think are of any consequence, but the roller rocker issue may deter a few. That and the "it's not NHRA", and its not quite as big of a stage are issues for some.

I'll be heading to the Nitro Jam in Baton Rouge in a few weeks, I'll make sure to post my impressions after I "cross over to the dark side".

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Having a track closer than 475 miles away would be a start. To reach Tucson, I literally drive within five or ten miles of four NHRA tracks.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

run class at nationals
pay money for class
when nhra runs class more racer come to that race

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

X2 It's time to pick up what nhra doesn't want.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

This thread is taking shape now! Everyone please add your thoughts. The worst thing that could happen, is that you get more places to race.....and the class does'nt die!

Wade Mahaffey

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

excellent idea. With the car counts it shouldn't be impossible to do.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Wade my problem is. To many 1/8 mile races.
My car doesn't seem to do good in the 1/8 mile. It runs quick enough, but I'm shifting into high just short of the finish. It revs super fast in the top of second so I can't just run it out. So I can't watch the competition chasing me down.
I'm the slowest SS class, so I'll always get the spot.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

If only 9 S/S cars show up like in Palm Beach how can you justify class runs? How can you get sponsors to pay you when no one cares enough to show up at a race? Its the old story of what came first....The egg or the chicken. When IHRA did run class at all of the National events and have class win money (a good pay out) and really good eliminator win money (I was there since the early 70's) the NHRA cars still did not bother to come. There were close races such as MIR (Budds Creek) in the early 90's where I remember seeing only 12 stockers (and some races even less) show up at the National event and how much closer can you be to Div.1 and Div 2? IHRA was going to drop stock all together back then. Maybe they should have and this wouldnt even be a topic for discussion? If your not going to support it then why should IHRA and the sponsors even bother supporting you? Thats my perspective. You know as well as I do that there are a "Gazillion" stock and S/S cars in NJ., Penn., and surrounding areas yet most wont travel any farther than between exit 4 and exit 8 on the NJ turnpike with a side trip to Maple Grove once or twice a year. Wade I hope this isnt to negative but something a lot of racers should look at. Look in your mirrors and figure out why there is no class runs, and even the few tech people IHRA has left are starting to wave the white flag and find something else to do.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

The changed the highway laws on the route to Maple Grove. It's now about a 2 and a half hour drive. Definitely skipping it this year.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

We like to chase points.....and I can't do both....so NHRA is still the answer.....I've been to many IHRA races over the years.....and I've always enjoyed them....but for my group to take time off to go have fun at an IHRA race is not in the cards....I would rather chase points at an NHRA race....I have 10-13 outings available to me.....

We have Grand bend and Martin fairly close by but if they conflict or make for too many in a row....we don't go....because it just costs too much for our circus to leave the house.....

and I have no interest in 1/8 mile racing.....and I like to park on pavement....



Rock Haas

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Pay more $$$$$ to win.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

How so Mike?

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Great, looking forward to seeing you at MIR and VMP this year.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

West coast tracks

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Just my opinion, but IHRA appears to be more "newbie" friendly. I was a member of NHRA for 30 years.

As for the argument that there are too many classes in IHRA, that could be good or bad depending on one's point of view.

I view all the classes as a positive being a newbie. We will start out with a Pure Stocker and if that works well, then we will step up and modify the car to run Stock.

I am a fan of the newer body styles and big block carbed V-8s, so the IHRA Crate Motor and Stock GT classes look appealing. :)

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Here's my two cents worth; when I sent an e-mail to IHRA with some questions, within half an hour the division tech director called me and spent as much time as was needed to discuss each one until all were addressed. I don't know if the same thing would happen at the other santioning body but I was impressed with their concern for a sportsman racer. Give them a try, you won't be sorry!

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

????????????????

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

You guys don't have to drive 2 1/2 hours to race? Most of ours are 5 to 8 hours from here, No Problem is over 12. You guys have it easy.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Consistency would help. For the first time, I went to 4 IHRA races last year that were a reasonable distance from me. 2 of them are not on the schedule this year, so I will only be at 2 IHRA races this year. I would have returned to the other 2. I can think of 2 other tracks that had IHRA races a few years ago that I would go to if races came back to them.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

great point, dropping Montgomery is the main reason my IHRA number starts with a 4

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

For myself the reason are in order of importance:

1)Not enough time to run both sanctions. I enjoy the challenge of chasing points and only have 15-16 weekends available to do it.

2) Quality and location of tracks local to me (Louisville, KY area). The only local one that runs a IHRA race is a dust bowl. The IHRA tracks for the most part are farther away than the NHRA tracks.

3) 1/8 mile racing. Have done it on occasion, heck I even won a IHRA points race on a former IHRA track (1993 @Ohio Valley). I enjoy the challenge of racing on the 1/4 mile!

4) Too many classes. I don't like too much the modified classes in NHRA Super Stock and IHRA has those classes plus Super Stock production cars. Just another negative to me to racing IHRA.

5) Constant harping on classracer by IHRA supporters/fanatics about NHRA racers being elitist. Some people like Pepsi. Some like Coke-Cola. Some enjoy both. Most people have their reasons for not racing with one sanction over the other. Just cause you don't agree with reason does not mean that it's not valid!

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

I am going to race some IHRA this year, Joined this month. The biggest problem is the lack of tracks close by, I will race at London Ky and Clay City and probably Martin MI. I may go to Budds Creek in July and maybe Virginia in the fall. Another thing that I think keeps people away is the lack of contingency money available. For a pro am I can only get $600 in conrtingency if I win and about $2400 for a National. I don't win very often but it would be nice to be able to win a little money if you happen to get lucky. All that being said I am going to support IHRA as much as I can.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Many of these issues are a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like scheduling, just as a for-instance, nobody went to Montgomery last year (even with no real conflicts), so why on earth should they lose their hide again? And contingency... I used to be able to make close to $9K at a National. One reason that it's down so much is the lack of support by the racers. How much value does a sponsor receive for their advertising dollar with short fields? (Don't forget the number of racers out there that don't even have a sticker on their cars!)

Greg Hill has the necessary attitude. If everybody with an excuse would just GO, guess what? The car counts *would* be big. With big car counts, the tracks make money. When tracks make money, you would see better and more consistent scheduling/locations. With quality cars, tracks, and schedules, sponsors would return to fight for your hard-earned dollar.

A sanctioning body is what YOU make it. Re-read that sentence and think about it.

$.02,

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Michael, I think you are right about a lot of this. Obviously there are a few legit issues in some people's eyes. We would have run Montgomery last year but 2009-2010 was the worst 2 years business wise that my dad and I have ever had, we didn't do any racing to speak of. I am going to the Nitro Jam in Baton Rouge, and going to try and run D4 for points (as finances allow). I think IHRA's heart is in the right place, they are trying to make things better for the sportsman racer. I do think they should read/listen to some of what's being said here, as some of it has merit.

As far as the contingency issue goes, unless you are a touring pro, or a perennial final rounder ( Beard, Bertozzi, et al) then is it REALLY a big enough issue to keep you at home?

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

I think Michael's right if we support IHRA I believe it will improve.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Change the I to a N

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Scheduling

in Div 4 this year, the race in Crandall is the weekend between Houston Divisional and Belle Rose National, I live in Dallas area but can't go because of work schedule. Very difficult to take that many days off in a 3 week span. State Capitol is the weekend before Ennis, Houston National 2 weeks after that with Easter in between. You would have to be a traveling professional, retired or independently wealthy to race that many weekends in a month.

Gilliam is scheduled nice compared to Belle Rose divisional

San Antonio is also doable 2 weeks before Houston divisional

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

A. run 1/4 race's.
B. a lot less classes.
C. one race in 3 days.
D. run class at more races.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Ego Alert: Worrying about contigency payouts as a excuse not to show...Rember you have to win first and you cannot win un less you show up...IHRA is trying to facilitate as many racers as possible..The BS about to many classes you still have to go 7-10 rounds to win so what is the difference who or what is beside you. I say hats off to IHRA for their effort to save our sport without enhancements... My .02 DD

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

How can they when they get NO SUPPORT from the racers?????

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Another smart azzed remark from a loser.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

1/4-mile I can understand. Racers need to petition IHRA and the tracks and let them know what they want.

One race in 3 days? What do you do with the other two days (for Divisional races)? :confused:

Personally, I *would* like to see them go back to having 1 Qualifying run on Sunday morning. We used to gain several cars on the last day of an event, and with the lower car counts these days, I don't believe it'd be a time issue.

Correction, they are typically 5-6 round races. Factor that into your budget, as your chance of winning a 5-round race is much higher than a 7-round race. Look at the big picture... entry fees vs payout, number of days off work, number of races in a weekend, number of rounds in the race, etc, etc... the return on investment can actually be quite good.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

I agree that they need to go back to having a qualifying run on Sunday. With the low car counts, time to finish the race shouldn't be an issue until car counts improve.

They should race 1/4 mi at the 1/4 mile tracks. They should run the classes 1/4 mi that can run it safely. I don't think it is that hard to switch the timing system back and forth.

IHRA does have too many classes. They need to re-align their classes (esp fuel inj) and hp factors with N. I think they could make the rules a little more restrictive for the crate motor cars then put them in with regular stock at the appropriate weight break. I mean use dual plane/stock replacement legal or factory aluminum intakes and require vacuum carbs. No one racing NHRA wants to come race at alot of the IHRA races where the crate morot cars are the top ten qualifiers. Also, IHRA needs to require 9" slick in stock. If A/S and B/S big block Camaros and mustangs can hook on 9" slick, then we don't need wider slicks in IHRA!

Also, the IHRA SS guys that run NHRA usually run in a modified class, so why do they run in production at an IHRA race? What is the difference?

I think that IHRA needs to lower entry fee's until contingency and/or corporate sponsorship of payouts improves. Paying $135 at a pro-am to race for $1000 (S) or $1100 (SS) is not a good return on investment. Maybe instead of the IHRA making the tracks foot the bill for all the IHRA staff to put on the race and make payouts, the IHRA could use nationwide membership fees to subsidize the pro-ams and sportsman portions of the nitro jams.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Michael & Chris,

Both had great ideas; I think the 9 " standard tire rule is a good one.
With the bad economy , two day races make good sense ( with a time shot on Sunday ) ... 1/4 for 1/4 tracks makes sense also , 1/8 mile where they have too ... IHRA, needs to update the HP factors & combine some of the classes where they can ...

Yes, we need to keep Ego's on both sides out of making this thing work , Sportsmen racing as we know it could end ... Some how
we racers need to come together & make this thing Work .. It won't happen over night , but we need to start somewhere & this maybe it ... I would like to see a Racers panel , whom could talk to IHRA about ways to make Sportsmen Racing Better for everyone .... Just a thought .... Keep them coming & don't let the Jokers get you down, nothing pleases them ....

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

This was done once, at San Antonio, where they ran T/S and T/D 1/8th (the locals that made up the car count wanted to run 1/8th) and everything else ran 1/4. Another track a couple years later wanted to do so as well, but it didn't happen.

1) This one's been rehashed many times... what fast NHRA car is getting outrun by a crate motor car?
2) Aren't most guys running 9" radials to begin with?

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Dave has an excellent suggestion about a Racer's Panel. A compliant heard over and over again is that NHRA doesn't listen enough. IHRA could take the lead in this area and change to fit the racer's suggestions. Since any panel could be subverted to one persons agenda, a vote of a classes members should follow any proposed change.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

If Crate Motor cars are combined with "regular" Stockers, I'm pretty sure there would be more complaining because they would be running heads up. There are enough issues with trying to equalize regular Stockers as it is. At least seperately, they handicap race and there isn't any advantage/disadvantage to complain about. As Mike pointed out, there are fast crates and there are fast regular Stockers - even if you don't count the new factory cars. Qualified fields from both sanctions were compared here and the results showed a pretty even mix throughout if they were combined.

Re: How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side
 

Look forward to seeing your car run this year. Ed