Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Contact your Division Director, your SRAC member, or NHRA and support the proposal for new classes in Stock and Super Stock. 6.0, 6.5, and 7.0 in stock (call it A/FX or whatever) and a 5.5 lb class for Super Stock. Give the new high horsepower cars a destination and they might disappear from your complaint box. Imagine that! All the safety rules are already in place, so that ain't an issue. After class, it's a bracket race anyway, and almost all of the folks with these cars won't be on your horizon. Might be the late 60.s all over again. It's out there. Just needs support from the racers, Chevy to get in the field, and stop the Mississippi from rising. All easily done. Trust me. Might be a nice heads up ring on Saturday.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

if nhra would put all fuel injected cars aa to d in there own class that would be a quick fix.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

For gods sake, isnt this what we all have been bitchen for the last two years. That lets the old cars stay in the mix and should have been done already. What the heck is nhra waiting for?

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Stock doesn't need a class lighter than 7.0 pounds per cubic inch (and we can start the class there at A being 7.0). Even at that weight, some cars can easily exceed the safety margin, what little is left, of 9" tires and stock based suspension. The last thing we need in Stock is a bunch of out of control cars, there's no need to start wrecking stuff like they do in those outlaw classes.

If you need more help for them for Stock, put them in FX classes, say A thru C, then adjust the weight rules and HP to keep them safe on 9" tires.

Otherwise, just let them run themselves out of the class.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

I'm all for a 7 pound class in stock.
Mark Madison
7995

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

IHRA has had a 7.0 lb class for years and very few ever ran it. The FI cars are seperate from older stockers and again the new cars very seldom show up other than Jeff T.. I think they are all on an ego trip to show off in NHRA. .

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

You know I am all for it but as my Grandpa use to say

"some people would not be happy if you hung them with a new rope"


:-) peace

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

So Alan, you would prefer AA cars @ 4200 lbs? That's what you got now. You really think NHRA is gonna make Ford go home?

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Jeff, the current configuration of Stock Eliminator, especially with 9" tires, does not offer the necessary safety margins for 150+ MPH cars, it just ain't there. I'm not going to advocate a change that's going to cause a marked increase in accidents.

Like I said, make A/S and A/SA both 7.0 pound classes, move the new cars to FX classes, say A thru D, with A/FX being 7.0 pounds and D/FX being 10.0 pounds, then adjust the HP and weight rules on the classes to make the new cars fit and work well. If necessary, give them a 10" tire and some safety upgrades.

If they're going to run in Stock Eliminator, even in their own FX classes, they need to be held to the point where a really fast pass is a 9.0 at around 150. Once they get factored to where they don't fit the FX rules to keep them at that limit, send them to Super Stock.

Honestly, even FX classes with 10" tires is not the proper solution. Thoroughbred factory race cars belong in Super Stock, there was a reason they were put there to begin with, and the reason is still valid and still applies today. I'd advocate the FX classes merely because it's as close as we're going to get to the proper and correct solution.

I want to see the new cars race, I have no problem with them existing and being raced, it just needs to be done right. The factories and NHRA can promote them in any class, they don't have to be in classes they don't really fit, running all over the cars that belong in those classes, in order for them to be impressive and promotable. The new cars would be just as impressive, and easy to promote, in stand alone FX classes, or in Super Stock, where they belong.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Alan,that's the clearest explaination anyone's made on the subject of the new cars.The only one's who'll disagree are those who own/race one and don't want to lose their racing
(heads up) advantage or maybe stand to profit by an association with them.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

IHRA has AA/FI, BB/FI and probably go to CC/FI, DD/FI if needed.
these classes are for the 2008 and up (newer cars)
That is "classess of their own"

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

So Danny are you saying the same IHRA everyone BITCHES about on here has taken care of the problem? WOW.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Yup, solved it before it ever was one..

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Ed, I actually LIKE the new cars, I think they're cool, and I think properly classified and promoted they could be good for the manufacturers, good for NHRA, and even good for the classes. I consider guys like Jeff Teuton, Rock Haas, and Dempsey Pendarvis to be friends. Just as I do the Beattie family who own ATI, and who race a new Challenger in Stock. I'd like to see Chevrolet jump in, IF NHRA is going to solve the problems.

I'd also like to see all of the manufacturers actually produce street legal production cars that could fit in real Stock classes, and get them factored and classified at least reasonably. If they'd all produce something like the old COPO 9561 cars and the Road Runners, cars that were basically bare bones light weight cars with a production high performance drivetrain, those would be good for Stock Eliminator, and they'd belong. THAT would be a real return to the sixties and the muscle car era. A real street car, no air, no power accessories, no excess trim, no monster stereo with "blue tooth", just light carpet and rubber floor mats with no power seats. Leave off all the fancy paint, wheels, decals, and trim, and cut the price down where the cars could be bought. Then they could do a body in white program with support, and it would be good for racers, good for racing, and good for sales. I'd even be in favor of NHRA allowing them a shipping weight reduction (say 200-400 pounds from a 3600 pound shipping weight) to allow for taking off the safety and emissions equipment that wouldn't be necessary for racing.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

If we are going to factor them that close, then the 396's and 428's all got to get hit to slow them down for the rest of C Stock. Maybe hit the 273 in U/SA or hit about 19.8 combo's of 350 Chevys to make them run the same as the rest, and the 396/325, that got to get hit, for one thing it is way too fast for SS, Sounds like dumbing-down-America so everyone is the same. We have run a Viper for a friend on 9 inch tires @ 9.20 @ 148. Smooth as glass. The new V10 car I got @ 144 is like driving to the grocery. Any of yall ever been that fast? The title of this thread says it all. You want to get rid of most of the new cars, make new classes and let them beat each other up. No evil, no bull, no nothing else, all the cars are certified to 8.50 and you got the net, collar, etc. Where was all this factoring and evening-up before the new cars. Must have been buried in the back of the brain, or maybe the new cars are in a class where you were the dominant car. The new cars are here just like the new cars in the 60's, then the 90's. I guess if the GM cars were ahead of the goats and ovals, it would be ok with most people.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Not so much......

BATON ROUGE, La. - Final order after 2 rounds of qualifying in Stock Eliminator at the 2011 Nitro Jam Series, IHRA Mardi Gras Nitro Jam:
Psn--Num--Class-Driver, Home Town, Machine-----------------ET---Index---(+/-)
1 4022 D/FIA Jeff Teuton, Houma LA, '09 Challenger 10.495 12.20 -1.705
2 4909 B/FIA Dempsey Pendarvis, Gonzales LA, '09 Challe 10.003 11.55 -1.547
3 489 C/FIA Sam Pourciau, Walker LA, '02 Camaro 10.425 11.90 -1.475
\ 4 4561 F/SA Bill Bagley, Longview TX, '73 Duster 10.927 12.15 -1.223

The lower HP factory race cars still race in the "regular" FI classes. They only made classes for the high HP new combo's.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Jeff you forget one fact.FACT the old combos you mentioned didn't come into the game with such an outragously underfactored HP rating.The guys who ran those combos worked on them and got them to the point they're at now.I would think that you've been down that road for the many years you've been racig S/SS.How about it?

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

My opinion doesn't mean a whole lot nor should anyone elses as a single person, however I feel NHRA and possibly IHRA as well have gone about the system of factoring all wrong. It is my opinion thats every combination should be given a realistic number initially, maybe even a little on the stiff side. Make the owners run the cars hard to qualify and then back into it to make the cars competitive within the class they fit naturally. The anwser isn't "more classes" no one has a problem running the new cars, people have a problem running against ANY under rated car.

I know there will be people to say well spend 100K on a new car and you can be fast too. I choose to race and older car, it is my choice. However should I want to spend 100K on that car it would not be n the same ballpark as the new stuff. YOU CAN'T OUT RUN THE STICKER ON THE WINDOW, PERIOD. I personally couldn't care less at this point, but some people are taking a major reamin' over this stuff.

Joe Bohannon
1967 Camaro SS/HA and PROUD!

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

As i posted , there will be more classes added to the lower hp cars if there is enough participation... 1 car in competition will not make a new class....at least they are trying to make it fair at IHRA...Oh and all three of the cars listed above( 2- mopars and 1-gm) got hp that weekend too, instead of dropping all the indexes 3 tenths.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

These cars are faster than most super stock cars in "stock" form. Make them all super stock only. Parachutes and 10.5 tires are the next step with these things once everyone gets them to leave. Do we really want that in stock?

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Already there: (I think, is this thing a stocker or SS?)
http://www.bangshift.com/blog/The-Pa...Cobra-Jet.html

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Kind of makes ya want to puke dosent it !

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Well, let me tell you about Baton Rouge. I picked D/FIA to run only because there was only one D/FIA in the nation in the whole year last year and that person was from Michigan. So I ran that so I would not offend anyone. Only guy. So I ran what the car seemed to like. I think I went 4 or 5 rounds in a bracket race. No heads up---on purpose. So it was 1.70 under a very soft index. So what. Gee, what a deal. Purposely avoid any heads up and get hosed.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Jeff,I like your opinion of the question I asked you.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Well Ed, let me tell you. We have been working out these stock and ss cars since l958. And we learned plenty. And we applied what we learned to these new cars. Matter of fact I was in touch with the factory before the financial trouble about these cars. No one was more surprised than me when they actually made the cars. A 68 Hemi Dart today would have a 4 link, aluminum heads, efi (which did not exist back the, and neither did this crap they call pump gas), a Jerico, a two disc clutch and all the stuff we now have. Would you expect the manufacturers to build an old technology car? Did you know that the average stock/ss efi motor makes about 10 hp less than a carb? A comp motor makes about 20 less. The adjustablity is what makes them work good. The workout time now is about 5% of the time from the 60's. The knowledge is out there. Sorta like an Apple IIE, still a good computer, does the same as the newest stuff, but not as efficient. I'm not sure what you are looking for, but its all I got. Progress is touch, and change is here. No going back.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Jeff,I agree with what you said,but these new cars are way underfactored compared to the
Hemis,BBC and even the 335HP Cobra Jets.Do you agree with what Bo said about you
guys having at it in your own classes,away from the old combos?Sounds like a good start to re awakening S/SS in the eyes of the public.If the next generation were made in the spirit of the old cars,like mentioned previously,stripper showroom models you wouldn't have to mortgage your future on, we might see a resurgence in class racing.Wadda ya think?

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

And that right there says it all: Chevy guys crying and whining. Safe? It's freakin' racin' for grandma's sake...How safe is it supposed to be? If you are scared stay home and watch on TV.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Jeff, interesting you mentioned the 68 Hemi Dart. Wasn't that car placed in Super Stock immediately? Which is the point everyone has been making from the beginning.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Yeah, good luck with that position. The brilliance behind it is astounding. :rolleyes:

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Am i missing something here? was this not put on the table already and wasnt even considered ? I sure remeber a petition for this and they ignored it. Since you seem to be the Embassador to these new DP's what do you feel has changed that they would even consider it now ? enlighten us please.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

I'll answer for Mr. Jeff, since ya'll got him stirred up...He's probably drinking a LaBatt and laughing at all this..The 68 Hemi Dart was built specifically to compete in the SS class. Not stock, but SS. Mr Jeff probably knows the history of stock and SS racing racing better than most racers on this forum..That family has been around before dirt. They had one of the first 68 Hemi Darts, along with Mr. Sid. I believe alot of ya'll are just jealous of what that family has accomplished. I'm proud to say they are some of my racer heros. They are legends in this sport,compared to most of ya'll.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

I vote leave stock alone.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

And why not let the Hemi Darts back in stock? The specs are there. With a stock cross ram, 9 in tires, and a 500 flat tappet cam, why not? The 65 single carb is already here.
But forget that, what does the guy with a lower stock class care about the new cars. it's a bracket race. I must be getting old, or out out memory or something. Also look at Nitro's book on the cars that have run this year so far. 403. 10% were in A/SA Lots of high stock competitors, not many down low, at least that is what is showing up. Almost all the new cars are natural A cars, at least the Mopars are. The 5.7, 6.1, 6.4 are natural A as 2009 or 2010 models are there, the 512 is AA. What does it matter if you are not in these upper classes. What are you missing? What am I missing? Class ain't paying. Maybe they got tired of the singles. Maybe not. Participation down; maybe by design. Higher classes showing up judging by Nitro's numbers. Maybe there is a message there. Maybe you got to show up to race. Maybe I should take a couple of days and go fishing before the river floods the whole area. Maybe I will go tomorrow. I will give you guys a day off.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

I hate to interupt but ours is not ugly and it weighs 3600

Jeff I just could not resist

You know I want seperate classes - or we would run A/SA at 3800

Hope Kevin turns it loose this weekend in Atlanta



:-) peace

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Here's some food for thought for those concerned about the safety of stock cars on 9inch tires.

There is currently a new outlaw power adder class that is receiving tons of popularity called Outlaw 8.5. These cars run on 26x8.5 slicks and run well over a 140mph in the 1/8th with over 1500hp. To my surprise, I've yet to here of any catastrophic wrecks or incidents due to the small tire. Most stock cars down make anywhere near 1500HP and if these style cars with power adders can get safely down the track, one could reason that stock cars could and should be able do the same in a more safe manner since stockers are allowed a better slick than a 26x8.5. Yes I know I have no stake in the argument, but tire technology is light years from where it used to be and are much more safe than people realize.

10.5inch slicks have been well over 200mph

12inch slicks have been well over 240mph

there's plenty of room left before any stock car reaches the 9inch slicks safety threshold in my opinion.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

so now we need to give these cars MSD 7531 boxes? Because that's what gets those cars down the track on that tires, with that much power. My best friend has a 275 drag radial mustang, so I di know what I am talking about here.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Don't give Ford and Mopar any ideas. I am not sure they aren't already equiped with something similiar. But then it's "stock". I guess all the rest of the stock racers can just go bracket race and leave "stock" to the high dollar factory cars.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

There is a reason they run the 1/8th mile other than the amount of tracks available and the fans they generate at those smaller facilities. Gear them for the 1/4 mile and watch how easy it is to get down track.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

Jeff can and will answer for himself. And it would apparently be an excellent thing for him to do, since you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I don't think anyone here is jealous of the Teuton family. I happen to like Jeff, and respect him. That does not mean I don't disagree with him on several things.

Maybe you should let the adults talk now, since you have no idea what is being discussed, and you have no dog in the fight.

Re: Want to loose 3200 ugly pounds?
 

The difference now is Ford and Mopar are on board. A vocal group wants the cars out of their class, and NHRA has said the racers need to support this if they want it to happen. Judging from the posts over the last year or so, I would say that is a good position. The system is sending them toward the proposed new classes as opposed to running very heavy cars. NHRA is not going to outlaw a car because it ran out of classes (the Ford that is there already recent decision). The 4 V8 Mopars have recieved 170 Hp in the last year. I don't know on the Fords, but they got a pretty good share also. I believe it was about two weeks ago during Houston National, Indy Points, and Boise Points there were 12 or 14 DP's racing. All were C or higher, and after that weekend they will be all B or higher, except for my lone Challenger with the 5.9. Rumor has a Bowtie with 1000 hp is out there and talking to NHRA. That is my take on the new classes. And in the days of old when the Muscle Cars were new remember all the heads up classes for the Mopars, Fords, Chevys. This weekend I think there is a Mopar show in Dallas with a Gen III Hemi Shootout. NMCA has a shootout on the horizon for the Mustangs, and as more new cars are sold, there will be more such events. I personally would like to see a heads up class seperate from Stock that would run Fri/Sat during events. All new cars A/FX, Super Duper Stock, or something.