Where are the lower class cars?
 

Looking at Stock qualifying at Bristol. Only seven cars in classes lower than G/SA. I guess everybody's need for speed trumps again.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

No altitude factor (the 4-cylinder is massively effected by the altitude. I was almost half a second slower at Bristol than even Numidia!) and unrealistic weight breaks (225 lbs heavy for DF/S, 400 light for EF/S) makes it an impossibility for me.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Lots of reasons, Dwight. Most of them attributable to NHRA policies.

I'll give you one, but I'd like to hear other's opinions.

Class money...non-existent . Many lower class racers depended on it to help offset travel and entry expenses.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Mark - Class money is the same for every class - that being said if you had 5 in a lower class only one would benefit from the class money for expenses and entries - so they ( the other four ) would still not be able to afford being there .....Or is it that you would like to reopen the single class deal again ?

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Jacko,
Yes it is , but if you can afford a quarter million operation, you don't worry about a little bit of class money.
The reason there were singles in class was not the racer's fault. There were just too many factors that kept people from building for the lower / slower classes.
What they did about was just a band aid for what they created.
That being said, if you can qualify no.1 , you should be able to win a combo class about anywhere.
You just don't necessarily need new slicks every month, twice the pistons, rods, rings, ceramic bottom lifters, etc.
Oh, and sorry I disparaged your Homies today and got your dander up!

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

It's a lot of things but the bottom line is if you can afford to build a 'new' factory car then you have the money to race it. And if you have spent the time and money to build one then you are going to race it. Most new cars fit in the upper classes and are fast. Hence top qualifiers.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Mark - My dander is fine ..........And as you know I raced lower class cars for almost thirty years so I fully understand but its not the NHRA's fault either that racers started liking fast ( as in speed ) cars .And you're right - a slow class car can easily win the combo deal along with the pewter Wally and whatever money .

One last thing - a racer can run a late model LT1 FI combo in A - B - C - D for a lot less than your quarter mill budget . Just ask Santangelo or Simmons who are competing this weekend at Bristol .

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Little cars don't like Bristol.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Billy ,

You are dead-on , heat & no - factor for hauling all that weight ..
Slower & Heavy cars don't like the Mountain ... Good luck to everyone.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

You ain't kiddin'... even with the turbo, Moller was more than .60 slower at Bristol than zMax. I was at Bristol for the K&N Spring Fling a few weeks ago, and was about .70 slow just in the 1000'!

In similar air (DA and correction factor), Farmington Dragway (which is around 1100-1200' physical altitude if I recall) was still .15 quicker than Bristol in the 1/8th mile alone. I made a jet change at Mooresville the following week and found .05 or so.... but not .50. :rolleyes:

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Maybe I shoulda said "RWD turbo"
Going from Speedworld to Vegas, I could go the sames times with the 4 speed and about .10- .15 slower with the automatic. Neil Smedley's Firebird was the same way.
SW is just under the correction factor, as is Bristol . LV is at least 6-700 ' higher.
Maybe Bristol is uphill to the 1/8th . It sure looks it.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Jack, I just found out that last years altitude correction factor was changed to emulate Competition Eliminators factor. If that's truly the case, then unless/until I come up with 5g's to upgrade my engine and change my cam to one with more duration, I may never run a altitude race at an NHRA event again, because my car won't run the number...if I was home, then I'd check the corrected index for DF/S and compare it to what it was last year (after NHRA's wonderful .3 reduction from 2009's factor). They're the ones choosing to make it harder for people like me who only ran .2-.4 under the index to be competitive nowadays, and this move just went over the top! :(

Well, thanks to IHRA, at least I have options for a couple of former NHRA altitude tracks...Salt Lake City, and Tucson!!! :)

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Gary, Is that with the new headers on the car?

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Gary - I fully understand how you feel but the one thing you're forgetting is that in order to win the eliminator you don't need to run .9 under - all that is necessary is to go on the index ................And the .3 reduction was for everyone - so you're exactly where you were before .

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

The air is always bad at Bristol. Been that way forever. No money is why Im not there.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

"Gary - I fully understand how you feel but the one thing you're forgetting is that in order to win the eliminator you don't need to run .9 under - all that is necessary is to go on the index ................And the .3 reduction was for everyone - so you're exactly where you were before . "

I thought you still had to run at least .5 under to qualify and run eliminations?

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Gary,after the .30 reduction a year ago,which with the old altitude factor dropped the index at Bandimere .32. Now with the new altitude factor your index dropped another .23. Your new index up here went from a 17.14 to a 16.59 in just over a year. The lower the track,the less increase in index lowering.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

No Terry, you have to at least dail your index.

Greg

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

The .5 was class single runs.After the .3 hit that disappeared then class singles disappeared.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Then contingency disappeared , then the cars disappeared. At least we still have Belle Rose.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

WITH 7 CARS LEFT IN STK. ELIM.

THERE IS A M/SA & a R/SA that are still in.

Good Luck to those guys, i want to see both of them meet in the Final.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Me too!

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

I would think guys that run slower cars are more on a budget, and the cost of a NHRA national event is high. I started racing again with the thought of the economy limiting entries, but also with the idea that class wins/singles could defray the cost. Unfortunately NHRA changed that.

I think if a racer can run the index or below, he should be able to go rounds in eliminator if he/she can correctly dial the car and be competitive on the tree.

All you get for class now is a trophy and class points, most aren't going to run for the class points, to many races.

Mike M

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

I thought the need for speed was the reason most went racing. For me, personally, anything slower than G/S just isn't much fun. In an age when you can buy 12-13 second production street cars, and "bolt-ons" will yield 10-11 second performance, why is anyone surprised that slower cars are falling out of favor?

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Alan, I must say that I'm more than a little bit disappointed with your answer.
When you think you're "good", then try going "fast" (fast being a relative word) with something that has no parts availability, compatibility or history and let me know how you make out.
Lower classed cars are falling out of favor because money and knowledge are too easy to come by to build upper classed cars.
I honestly expected better from you!

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Billy,

You tell him................

Bob Mulry
J/SA K/SA L/SA

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Billy, Not everyone knows the thrill of making something slow go fast with work and inginuity. That's too old school for some.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Me too.I usually agree with many of Alan's posts.I think he missed it this time.Just my opinion.
Like the Hawk says "It's not what you drive,it's how you drive it"
Alan,go stand in the corner for 20 minutes..

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

I'm not here to "impress" you, or anyone else, with my answers.

I never said I thought I was good, if I was, our stuff would be a lot faster.

I said many people are not happy going slow.

If you like slower cars, that's fine.

For me, there is just not enough excitement to be had on the track with a slower car, no matter how challenging it is to make it a competitive class car.

The threshold for fun in a race car, for me, is around 11.50 at 115 or better.

I have no criticism for people who like slower cars. If that is what you like, by all means, have at it. It's all about what you find to be fun. I do, however, find it amusing that people want to criticize people for preferring to go faster.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

I race a 11 sec car and a 17 sec truck and I have the same amount of fun if not more in my truck!!!!! as long as the light is on in my lane I don't care what I'm driving!!!! BTW I've won a heck of a lot more rounds in the truck!!!

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

National Record Holders................

J/SA 11.31 115.51 10/24/10 Eugene Monahan - Brockton, MA '90 Pontiac Mohnton, PA
K/SA 11.69 110.82 05/28/11 Shawn Kvaas - Pitt Meadows, BC '77 Pontiac Mission, BC
L/SA 11.58 114.80 04/30/10 Bill Edgeworth - Tacoma, WA '77 Pontiac Eagle, ID
M/SA 11.53 114.07 05/01/10 Angelo Phillips - Scottsdale, AZ '78 Plymouth Eagle, ID
N/SA 11.78 111.70 06/26/10 Bill Edgeworth - Tacoma, WA '77 Pontiac Woodburn, OR

If you want to talk fast.....These guys are FAST............

AND

They all run mid 11's at over 110 mph

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Alan, I go racing for personal satisfaction. I apparently, mistakenly assumed that you did also. I must be mistaken.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

No, you were not mistaken. I do race for personal satisfaction. People find personal satisfaction in different ways. You assume too much. Just because we race two big block Camaros in Stock and Super Stock (and we now have a 97 Camaro on loan that I am working on) does not mean I do not get personal satisfaction from working on our program.

Your mistaken assumption is that personal satisfaction has to come from racing a slower car or an oddball combination. It does not.

I can respect that some people like and enjoy the slower cars and oddball combinations. It is amusing that the respect is not mutual, all things considered.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

Just wait until the new Ford Mustangs get ahold of these guys.....LOL.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

And there's nothing wrong with that. Nor did I ever say there was. The lack of respect for the preferences of other people here is not mine. Apparently, those of us who race big block Camaros (or late model small block cars) are not worthy of respect, we all have it too easy evidently. It appears you have to work on a lower class oddball combination to achieve personal satisfaction and earn respect. :rolleyes:

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

I go Class racing to try to turn on the win light either heads up or in the eliminator, while blowing as little money as possible,
If I felt "the need for speed" , I'd take a mild 455, stick it in a tin can 10.0 bracket car, stay at my home track and still save money....

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

MY personal satisfaction comes from doing things that no one has done before not rehashing the SOS. Now maybe it's because I just can't stand to do another Chevy V8 in ANY form but if you're still getting your fix from doing them, you keep up the good work and, above all, enjoy yourself.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

I have a super stock 68 Camaro that my son Frank drives, also a 91 Firebird crate motor stocker that I drive and a FWD 79 Dodge Omni stocker that is as slow as a herd of Turtles and I get as much fun out of driving the Omni as I do the other cars. And I have won more money with the Omni than the other cars and that includes 1 national event and 3 national event runnerup and 9 points races with the Camaro. As far as the Firebird it is fast for the class but so far not to much luck in winning. I had planned on running some NHRA races with the Omni in 2011 but when the National Event went to $305.00 I lost interest and did not renew my membership and car number with NHRA that I have had since 1974. BTW 99% of the money won with the Omni was bracket racing, very little won in NHRA and IHRA races.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Allen

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

I`ve always raced with the main intention of winning. I`ve won Championships with a wide variety of vehicles. I`ve won the Summit National Championship in Super Pro in `03 with a 20 year old dragster,and the Division 5 Stock Championship in `96 with a V/SA Buick Skylark. I`ve enjoyed all win lights,reguardless off what my dial in has been.

Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 

I find it unusual that people that have worked hard enough in life to be able to afford a faster car, and enjoy driving a faster car, are the lesser racers here. And guys running lower class cars feel superior for some reason?