New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

NHRA posted most of the specs for the 2012 Ford 5.0. Anyone have a good compression calculator?

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Check the Diamond Pistons website they have a good calculator on their home page.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

It's rated at 325 compared to 412 for the GT street car. With a .140 dome and a 50cc combustion chamber I would say it's got plenty of compression.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

I just don't understand how they get accepted at that much lower rating than the street version. Makes no sense.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

NHRA enhancement !

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Who would build one at 412hp and a 7.33 weight brake? This motor in stock eliminator trim is only going to make 475-525hp max. Compare this motor with a combo like Greg’s 71 350ci/315hp.
Remember there are not the hp gains with new cars like we use to see. A combo like this 302 mustang may only make 75-120hp more going from street to stock eliminator because of better factory parts. While a 1980’s 305 may make 180hp over its factory rating.

Terry how can you get a NHRA enhancement if your not a member and don't race??????

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

This from a guy who has a J/S car that's been 10.59 at 129. Charlie history has proven every one of these new car combinations bogus and this is just another one. Oh yeah another thing my combination is so soft that I'm the only one in the country running one.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Who wants to build a 70's camaro in 2011? My combo may be a little soft but the 302 at 90hp more is not. I also did not say your combo was soft but more in line with what it should be. You are right about the history end of new cars being fast when they come out. It has been this way for 40 plus years.

1964 hemis
1965 hemis
1960s mustangs
1967 camaros
1968 hemis
1969 camaro'
1980s olds
1980s camaros& firebrids
1990's F bodies LT!
2000's F bodies and corvettes LS1
2008 CJ
2010 DP
2010 CJ
2012 CJ
2012 DP
all these combos were at bogas hp to start.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

It use to be called greasing the skids!!!

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

I got all excited when I read the title of this thread until.............


















......I found out that the Coyote Mustang GT is still not allowed in competition. :(

Those specs are for the CJ.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

The new motor listed is a 4 valve! Which engine is it? Is it the same as the Boss 302? for 2011?

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

X's 2 Greg ! Charley...... No....Im just not a member of NHRA anymore. I havent been for a few years. They suck in my opinion and will NOT get any more of my money until they change their ways of treating the sportsman racers so it looks like I never will be an NHRA member again as they will never change. I was a member for many many for years prior. Probably for as many years as you are old. Your just blowing smoke and everyone knows it. Your combo is an underrated "Ringer" and everyone knows it. It wont be affected by the AHFS as very few are even running your combo and most will be automatics anyway. Good move on your part. And thats from a guy who really does like Fords. I like ALL brands but fair is fair and Ford and Chrysler has not been the least bit fair in this deal and NHRA has been dumb enough to buy it.......or at least been paid enough.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Ladies, I was posting more as a joke than anything. No need to get into the same old conversation for the 100th time. I was excited to see the 5.0 at 412 in the hands of the great builder/tuners. Guys are in the low 12's with a good tire from the factory. No doubt it could run with the fast older cars in time.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

About like a good LS1 F body. I have a few eleven second customers with those old LS1 cars.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Probably not the Boss.
I'm going to download the 2012 engine blueprint specs and take a look at the casting numbers to make sure tho.

Cool thing about the Boss longblock is that anyone can order it. I got a quote of $ 6400 delivered and that included the $ 1,000 core charge.

That engine is a screamer ! It can run @ 7500 rpm....easily !

CNC factory heads, forged pistons, stronger rods, oil cooler, larger cam, etc.
A racing engine put into a factory built street car....awesome !

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

The crate motor that Ford sells is rated at 444hp and that has the same 80mm throttle body and 11:1 compression.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Ok then COYOTE??

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

The boss block is a Windsor conventional sbf style block I believe. It is not the modular block for the 4.6-5.4.
They just revived the 5.0 size in the mod motor for this years cars. F-150's come with a 5.0 now too.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Here is a pic of the new Boss 5.0 4v longblock.
Like I posted before, it's a 7500 rpm (road) racing engine put into a street legal Mustang. :)
The tell-tale sign that it's a Boss is the oil cooler.
Externally, everything else looks the same as the GT engine.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...Boss50pic4.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ss302label.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...Boss50pic5.jpg

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Still checking on that Ralph.

I posted the specs on the Modular Fords forum to see if someone can determine if it's the Boss or GT engine.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

I am not talking about the Boss 302 Pushrod @ 8.20 deck hight but the 4V four cam 5.0L that is used in the new 2011 Boss 302 Car code name of COYOTE in the 2011 NHRA engine specs it shows as as a 4 Valve finger foller Engine dual overhead cam small bore long stroke

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Well, it appears this 2012 NHRA 302 listed may neither be a Mustang GT engine nor a Boss 4v.

It is possible the engine is a "made up on paper" engine..........according to this board member on Modular Fords: (post # 5)

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...86#post1720886

"It's not a GT or a Boss according to the specs, it's an engine that doesn't exist. Someone goofed. All appearances are that it is the 2011 GT engine other than the piston and exhaust cam specs. I suspect that was the intent, to use that crate engine, much like they did with the 4.6 3V in the CJ previously. But the specs are wrong, not the first time they have submitted incorrect specs and cars got bounced for it previously too.

As listed it is a natural C car. Nothing there about transmissions, so no idea what can be used. Another paper car snuck into the guide, Ford hasn't put a production car in there for years now, just this made up ****. "

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Sounds like a "CRATE MOTOR" to me.

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LOL at the "crate" nomenclature.

Terry, I would be surprised if anyone can buy that exact engine direct from Ford and delivered complete in a "crate".

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Almost everyone I know that runs Stock and Super Stock that builds or has built an engine that takes advantage of the specs that are provided for their respective engines. That means cutting the decks on the blocks close to the minimum specs, cams that are close to the maximum lift, head cc's that are near the minimum in the combustion chamber, ETC. Why would you not expect Ford, Chrysler, and GM to take advantage of the same system that makes the Engine builders build their engines to the specs that give them the advantage? It is the System that is in place through both NHRA and IHRA that makes the manufacturers do what they do. Like it or not it is no different than what all racers do to be competetive.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

You don't see the difference between that crap and specs from a production car?

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

[QUOTE=ALMACK;266133]Here is a pic of the new Boss 5.0 4v longblock.
Like I posted before, it's a 7500 rpm (road) racing engine put into a street legal Mustang. :)
The tell-tale sign that it's a Boss is the oil cooler.
Externally, everything else looks the same as the GT engine.

my mistake. I usually think of the car as opposed to the engine when someone says Boss 302

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

I know who's garage those pictures came from. :)

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Not many people grasp the concept Ed.

I said two years ago that what would happen is the factories could literally have "paper engines" that they never even had to assemble as prototypes or even make anything but blocks, cranks, heads, and intakes for.

With the new rule, the factories could actually let a racer go through their catalog and create an engine out of part numbers, then the factory can submit the "engine" with an arbitrary low ball power rating.

This new rule means it does not cost the factories more than about $500 to create a "new engine" any time they want one. They pay a guy to fill out some tech sheets and submit them to NHRA. And all they have to do is make ONE change in the cam or piston specs, and it is a different "engine". And they don't even have to make a single part.

Even if NHRA said "send us a piston", the factory could just say "we're buying them from XYZ pistons, we'll have them send you one" and have "XYZ pistons" make a dozen, and submit an "original" and their "race version" to NHRA.

Pandora's box is wide open now. Who knows what will come out next.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Yes--Thanks Kris !

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Since the drag packs got factored into A & AA, it probably won't be long until new engines hit the paper with small changes and more bogus-low hp ratings. It's becoming a big joke. The slow guys that suddenly got fast are going to need something to get back into the lower classes where the water ain't so deep.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Just added for the 2012 302ci an Eaton blower rated at 345hp.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Alan, I think your pretty dead on with this, however I tend to look at both sides of the argument.
Back "in the day" factories got involved and the war was on. It got so wild they eventually spawned the FX classes then funny car. Very innovative times. For YEARS everybody on here or involved in class racing bemoaned the fact that S/SS is being abandoned and "wouldn't it be awesome if factories got involved again".
Well, they have.
And in a big way.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think you hit it dead on. I only look at the bigger picture and see while there are certainly downfalls with paper cars and engines flying into the guide, there will be other larger benefits. Just being on the radar screen so-to-speak is huge! The fact that they are building cars and engines FOR COMPETITION right at the factory is eye popping if you look back say 10 years ago.
Once the big set ups are commonplace perhaps the smaller combo's/engines will be given more attention too.

The old combo's will be "playing against the house" and we know who wins there....that said though, there still hasn't been a runaway in wins for the new stuff on national or div level.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

lol...you're a funny man !

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Back then, the factories were making parts, and complete cars, though. And with regards to Stock and Super Stock, they were making real cars you bought at the dealer and drove on the street. Now they're making paper engines, and cars that can't be driven on the street, legally, period.

Yes, the factories are "involved" again. But is it good for the sport, or even good for the market?

Yes, people complained that the factories weren't "involved". They may soon wish they'd been more careful what they wished for.


No, other than one or two examples, no one has done much event winning, yet.


It would be FAR different if the manufacturers were building affordable, production street legal cars, but they're not. None of the big three is building a light weight semi stripped down under $30K high performance street car. They're building over weight, over loaded, over complicated $40K boat anchors. They could be building 3200-3400 pound cars with few options, less BS, and a far lower price. But they are not.

No, this is not by any stretch a "return to those thrilling days of yesteryear" when you could go buy an affordable muscle car, with rubber floor mats or thin carpet, hand crank windows, no power door locks, no high dollar radio, but with a stout engine and drivetrain. That is exactly what is wrong with this "movement". That is why this is not as good for the sport or the market as people want to think.

If this whole thing was getting 18-24 year-olds into $25K factory hot rods off the showroom floor, building a fan base and a participant base for the sport and the market, for the future, it would be a great thing. That's not happening, and it's not going to happen with the current structure.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

The main reason the new cars are not winning every race is the fact that there are not enough out there in the eliminator YET and the fact that it is primarally a "Bracket" race which requires a lot of skill and luck to win. When the eliminator starts to have an equal numbers as old cars look out. They will win all of the heads up runs, be the low qualifyers and when there is enough of them it will be a very boring show to see nothing but DP's and new Mustangs running....blown or unblown.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Things in the Auto industry are much different today than they were in the Muscle car era. How many of you are still running a dual point distributor? How many of you listen to a radio that has vacuum tubes? How many of you still listen to the Radio? NHRA changed things because they realize that the new cars are their future and like it or not it is here to stay. Back in the 60's and early 70's did you think that people running model T Fords ( a forty year old car back then) were running something obsolete? I thought the 50 Olds and 56 Chevys were old back then. Would I still like to take my 70 Mustang to the U.S.Nationals and win class in Super Stock J again? Sure, but I realized over 15 years ago that those days were numbered and while I still could be competetive with that car in the eliminator, that other cars in the class were much more competetive. I am sure that the people who lost their jobs making vacuum tubes and dual point distributors were not happy to lose their jobs but times change. I still have my 70 Mustang and it still could be raced, but I built a replacement and have no plans to go backwards. All I am saying is either choose to replace what you have, or come to terms with the fact that maybe you may not be the fastest car in your class anymore because times have changed and you cannot control that.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

There is NOTHING wrong with the new cars........Just get the HP factors corrected and put them where they should be. Thats 99% of the gripe !

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

The problem is that everyone complains about the new cars and their horsepower factors instead of complaining about the AHFS and the fact that is does not react quick enough to any underrated combination whether it is an old car or a new car. Again it is the system in place that needs to be straightened out not just the new cars but nobody directs their complaints to that.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

I have before....the AHFS will NEVER work in its present form because of the game playing and 1000 ft shut off runs everyone is playing. Its not so much the system as it is the dummys who accepted the HP ratings to begin with no matter what they were and the non action of NHRA to do much of anything about it. They just dont seem to care about the guys who have supported them for so many years in the past and just want to cater to the money guys who can afford these new combos of the week.