What would your Div director do ?
 

My friend Marion Stephenson asked me to post this.

3948 SS/CM M Stokes
332 GT/EA M Stephenson

1st pair out 1st rd of Super Stock Div. 3 Columbus,last weekend.
Marions tree does not have the 1st yellow bulb come on, but he leaves on the bottom bulb, has a 017 light, but because the tree didn't count down thinks he is late.
Doesn't drive the top end like he would have if the tree would have counted down correctly. he is thinking I'm late & lost to Stokes .
Does to Div.3 dir. and askes for a rerun, Jay says because he had a good light [by accident] NO rerun.

the car behind him saw that the tree didn't count down right and shutoff till they fixed the tree [new bube]
What do you think your Div director would have done ?

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Jay made the right call.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Agree..........

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

So he's saying that if he had been late, then it would've been a re-run? How late would be late enough to warrant a re-run, then? If the top bulb had worked, would he have been red, the same, or later? There is no way to answer that question.

Of course the opposite argument can be made: Had he won the round, would he still have wanted a re-run?

In my opinion, the answer to the re-run question should be the same regardless of who was involved or what the outcome of the race was. The tree malfunctioned, the race should be re-run. Somebody's going to be mad, regardless of how it plays out.


I had a deal at a local bracket race where they had CrossTalk on for Footbrake by mistake. I was the faster car, and got the crosstalk tree. I was late, but still won the round. They made us re-run, even though the winning car was the only one affected by the crosstalk. In retrospect, they did the right thing, because who's to say I wouldn't have been red if the tree had come down correctly?

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Beard is right!

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Beard is right! Jim



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Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Re-run either way.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Seems that the cold hard fact of a Malfunction should be the deciding factor. A good light, a bad light, a "relatively" good light wouldnt seem to matter. Re Run would seem in order on the basis of Malfunction unrelated to "subjective" evaluation of et, rx etc.
Micheal, it shouldnt have been up to him to "want " a rerun. Tower should have ruled based on what happened with the tree, nothing more.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

IHRA race in Jackson S.C. yesterday in the final I ran Everette Keesley. Lights came down score board on my side went to all zeros and his W came on. I had RT. 60FT and 330 and 000 at the stripe.He ran out 3 and I had a better light. My 330 time show I was going dead on to possiably .005 under. Since my side did not record a time we had to re-run. It worked out for me but neither one of us was very excited about having to re-run but what else would they have done? I guess it all comes down to the circumstance and how much information the director has to make the decision on a re-run and all malfunctions are not them same.

MC

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

x2

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

re run. Tree malfunction and every person has a different idea what a good or bad light is. So reaction is not relevant in making this decision.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

I'm with the RE-RUN crowd on this one.. the starter should have made the tower aware of a tree malfunction.. and if that was the left lane, that bulb was out at the Divisional last year.. they changed bulbs, then changed trees.. apparently they haven't gotten it right yet..

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

As a Stock and bracket racer, I always looked at the bottom bulb, and never paid attention to the first and second amber's. Thus, a race like this wouldn't have affected me, as I would never have noticed it anyway (unless someone told me after). The race should have stood as called.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

maybe he doesn't just look at the bottom bulb what if when you raced and the bottom bulb didnt come on would you want a rerun?

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

The same thing happened to dad in 2001 at Earlville in the comp final. Div 5 director told me the top bulb is a "non factor" and then asked me why I was so worried about the top bulb. I told him that we followed the tree and his response was "he took the tree so its a race".

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Bottom bulb, yes. Other two bulbs, no.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

u make no sense, if there are 3 bulbs on the tree why use 2?

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

He leaves on a trans brake , so goes to the floor on the 1st bulb. Thats what screwed him up.
Plus fighting for the World championship & this hurts in that quest.
Other wise just another lose , he was in the left lane and had the track starter not "RED", red would have seen it & called the tower .
Still has 2 wcs meets to go to.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Not to hijack but I had a similar deal to Beard - St Louis NHRA Sport Compact race - 12 cars in the bracket class first round and they had the tree in cross-talk. I was the faster car and it threw me off, was way late and got smoked accordingly. Talked to them in the tower and they just said sorry we shouldn't have done that but we aren't re-running the round (others complained as well). A fine 8hour drive pissed away!

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Tree malfunctioned regardless which light you leave on......Should have been a re-run.....

Supposed the driver did not take the tree and sat there to explain the top bulb did not come on...You think the director would have still told him it did not matter cause he leaves off bottom.......Suppose someone counts the bulbs..... Definatly re-run in my book....
anothe thing ,if it did not matter ,why did they stop the next pair til it was fixed ? why not wait til round over and then fix it ?/

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

I agree with Mickey. I leave off the bottom bulb also, but I watch the other two count down. If any of the bulbs went out it would effect me. Why have three bulbs if the top two don't matter?

I also agree with Beard (as usual.) It should be an automatic rerun. It shouldn't matter what the light is. The driver in the effected lane shouldn't get a freeroll either. (Freeroll is a poker term) For instance, they know if they win it will stand, but if they don't win they will get a rerun. Since they know they will get a rerun if they lose they might try something different at the top end like giving up the stripe instead of taking it.


-Toby

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

01 Mark Faul 528 6/6
02 Peter Biondo 516 5/5
03 Jackie Alley 450 3/3
04 Chris Chaney 444 3/4
05 Mike Crutchfield 442 4/5
06 Marion Stephenson 441 3/5
07 Slate Cummings 434 6/4
08 Dan Fletcher 429 9/2
09 Gary Stinnett 422 3/5
10 Justin Lamb
So you see 1 or 2 rd make a big difference maybe !

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

I think where Jay's coming from with that statement is that the malfunction didn't seem to affect him, sort of a no harm - no foul situation.

That said, I can't really agree. Any provable tree malfunction should result in a re-run with no questions asked. Yes, it's messy with cool down times and getting the two cars back into regular rotation but there is simply no other fair way to do it.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

How long does a rerun take 5 min it sounds to me like the div director didnt understand what happened and needs an explanition of the run, so maybe a real racer needs to tell him what the situation was?

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Absolutely should have been a re run....no questions asked. On a side note, I seen a pair 1st round in S/G where one opponent left before the tree was activated and caught the beams with his back tires as the tree activated. He had a sub 1 second 60'. Meanwhile, his opponent left on the ambers and was red. The guy who left before the tree was awarded the win and placed on the 2nd round ladder accordingly. It took the other guy going to the tower and bit*hing for them to get it right. Shouldn't an official have caught this? Isn't that what their there for? I just couldn't believe that one slipped through the cracks...........just like the deal for Marion. What a bad deal

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

I've sat in Race Control with a lot of different DDs, and honestly I can only think of one or two who shouldn't be there. Even though it might not be obvious in the pits, as I've listened in on their decision making processes it was obvious the decision was made contingent on what was best for the most racers.

I agree that it's only a five minute deal to pair two cars. But every time I've seen this happen, things get uglier than an episode of Pinks. This guy needs to go service his clutch, that guy needs to get his engine stone cold, another one complains because he remembers how the issue was handled in 1976, and on and on.

If the class has completed before the re-run occurs, the computer operator has to shut down what they're doing and change to the correct eliminator file - and then change back. There may or may not be more changes to make like .4 or .5 tree, crosstalk, etc.

No, it's not the end of the world, but it ends up taking a lot more time than you'd imagine and a lot more chances to screw something up.

As far as I'm concerned you tell the racers that the rerun will occur as the last pair of that session, with or without them. But I never see that happen since the DDs are trying to be fair to everbody.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

As stated, some watch the whole tree, some go to the mat on the first.. I would have though I was late too...probably would have legged most of the way.

Bad call ... Would not have happened at any of our races. We would re-run it at 2 o'clock in the morning if need be.

Not really surprised though.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

I dont care what you have seen happen its whats fair to the driver that spent the money to get there and in the points battle the rest of the stuff you said is BS

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

No need to get up on the tires, Mickey. Take a deep breath and read my first reply.

"Any provable tree malfunction should result in a re-run with no questions asked."

Did you miss that part?

I thought it might add to the discussion to add some facts from a viewpoint most racers never see. It still doesn't change my opinion. There should have been a rerun. Sorry if I wasn't clear when I tried to talk about what's involved.

As for you calling BS, then talk to your fellow racers. They were the ones who came up with the examples I gave.

Look, we're living in some very strange times right now. Regardless of what a lot of people are working at right now, you really don't have to choose up sides. I'm not your enemy.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Yep lowered the chip you fooled me on your post my fault sorry

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

I was at Columbus and thought I heard some drivers discussing this race,but I didn't know exactly what happened.

I think I heard that the total package of the winning driver was better than .017,which was the reaction time of Marion.

Therefore,the top end driving was not a factor.

However,maybe his light would have been better if the top bulb came on?

The best solution to me would be this:

"Any provable tree malfunction should result in a re-run with no questions asked."

However, I am not a Division Director.Tough job.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Jay decided not to re-run cars at the Bowling Green open after the tree malfunctioned there, causing late lights with quick 60 ft. times which resulted in quick e.t.'s and lots of breakouts, so it doesn't surprise me that he wouldn't re-run this one. It definitely should have been, though!

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Correct. Everyone agrees that the tree malfunctioned. Everything beyond that point is irrelevant. Fix the tree and rerun it.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Like a previous poster stated. They fixed tree before next pair ran. Why? In DD mind it wasnt a problem so it should have stayed broke with 1 bulb missing.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

x2

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

US Nationals a few years ago.. Had to race Mickey Walter and my middle bulb did not come on.. It was a rerun. Mickey won the first race and I won the second race. Steven Hall was spotting for me and Rick Stewart removed the bulb, signed it, handed to Steven and I have it.
Any tree malfunction should and always should require a rerun.

I have also been on the losing side as I raced Speedy Emmons at Baton Rouge and we had a tree problem. Starter said that I Red Lighted and gave win to Speedy. I dailed a 11.62 [1984 G/SA} and scoreboard showed 11.32. Have a VCR tape that showed to "GREEN" lites. Howard Stanfield was in tower fighting for me and Harvry Emmons was at scales also fighting.. Walter the starter called it and it was offical. Everyone this was the "FINALS"

My 2 cents


"RERUN"

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

IHRA rule book page 113 - re-runs

If any "single" amber bulb is burned out on the competitor's side of the tree the race will be re-run.

Looks like something else NHRA will need to steal from IHRA ...lol

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Satch
I like that

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

Some Div. directors really care and some dont. I remeber Greg X. as being one of the good guys. Bob Lang is also one of the good guys. Maybe Im partial to Div. 1....LOL.

Re: What would your Div director do ?
 

wow what a shock d3 director made a not so good call!!! should have been a rerun i know that word is not in his vocabulary i've been nailed by him twice!!!
aaron disinger
327y
gt/ha