Updated HP Ratings
 

Updated horsepower ratings are on the Lucas side of NHRA.com

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

As the result of runs under the Automatic Horsepower Factoring System (AHFS) 1.20-second under policy at the Mac Tools U.S. Nationals, the following changes have been made.

The horsepower rating for 09-10 Dodge Drag Pak, entries with the 370 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 385 currently rated at 404 has been increased by twenty two horsepower, to 426 horsepower; for Stock Eliminator.

The horsepower rating for 2008 Ford Cobra Jet, entries with the 330 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 425 currently rated at 475, has been increased by sixteen horsepower, to 491 horsepower; for Stock Eliminator.

The horsepower rating for 2010 Ford Cobra Jet, entries with the 330 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 500 currently rated at 534, has been increased by eighteen horsepower, to 552 horsepower; for Super Stock Eliminator.

NHRA's 2011 Automatic Horsepower Factoring System outlines that any run of 1.20-second or more under the index will receive an immediate index decrease or horsepower increase. These changes are effective Sep. 6, 2011.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

So what's to stop the affected year owners to simply claim a different year??????

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Um.......... Nothing. Jim

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

I would think NHRA tech would have a way to check the identification on these cars.jmo

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

2011 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustment Correction

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7/18/2011



Due to a clerical error the 09-10 Dodge Challenger Drag Pak 370 385-390/399 was increased to 413hp inadvertently.

Stock Horsepower Correction
Complete for 1st half rating period of 2011







Engine OEM NHRA New
Make CID HP HP HP Years Affected


Mopar 370 385-390 413 404 09-10 Drag Pak

Maybe this wasn't such a mistake?

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

The body style is completely different between the 2008 Mustang and the 2010 Mustang. It is about the same difference as comparing a 68 Camaro to a 69 Camaro. Look carefully and you will notice the difference. Drag pak Challengers might be a different story.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

I thought they had serial #'s on them.....

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

For those not familiar with supercharged CJ's, as noted earlier the 2008 body style is different than the 2010 and newer.

All 2008 cars had an Iron Block with the 2.3L Eaton Blower.

In 2010 there were 2 supercharged engine options, both with aluminum blocks, a 2.3L Eaton blower and a 4.0L Whipple blower. The big blower engine has flat tops while the small blower engine has dished pistons.

2012 also had 2 supercharged options.
The 2012 big blower engine has dished pistons.
The 2012 small blower engine has a different supercharger pulley and cam lift than the 2010.

I hope this helps clarify the differences between the cars and the changes required to simply claim a different year car.

See you at the races,
Wayne Kerr

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Thats cause until recently I think 2012, but I'd have to go look again...The only version of the Mustang that was on the books was the CJ so that was your only choice was to convert an old wrecked one if you weren't lucky enough to get on the list for a real one... They may have added a few now, but at first this was the case..

Brad

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

The DP as a 2009 is now a AA/SA only, as a 2010 it is one hp from AA/SA only. It now will have to run about 200 lbs heavier. This is with the 6.1 motor and auto trans. I wonder what will happen when Barton pulls up against a 512 Mopar or a blown Ford in class. That car is # 15 of the 2009's I think. The cars for 2009 and 10 are exactly the same. Time will tell.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

SOOOOO again, excuse my ignorance, if they are indeed all the same, how come all the years didn't get the HP????????????

And, how much more is needed for them to be out of AA???? Something has got to give here!!

I'm all for F/X, SUPER STOCK

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Serial #'s may not be a good idea anyway cause that would probably reduce the field of "all" stockers more than 1/2 ....lol

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Any answers to this, please!!!?????

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Bernie the answer is that the manufacturers can change a spec on a new model and have a whole different combination, especially if the body doesn't change.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

In the past it was easy to identify cars from year to year. Just look at sales brochures, body shop manuals, NADA books, etc. This is not the case with these purpose built racecars. The manufacturers can put on any parts and claim what they want.

What books or printed data info are the sanctioning bodies going to use as reference for these cars when a question comes up?

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

I'm not a NHRA tech inspector however, I'd use the classification guide and the rulebook to determine the proper class for a vehicle. Changing the year of a car to reclassify it is not new! The new cars aren't any different.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Here is a scenario to all of the racers that say the new factory race cars are not offered to the General public to drive on public highways (I.E. showroom available). . Go to your local Ford Dealer and buy either a Mustang Shelby with a 5.4 supercharged engine or a Mustang with a 4.6 three valve or a 5.0 new Mustang and make your own Cobra Jet. You can change the transmission and rear end per Nhra Stock Rules. Change the Hood and Grille to the Cobra Jet items and in the case of the Shelby I think you have to change the Facia and maybe a couple of things in the engine on all of them but you could have your own version of the Cobra Jet and they are actually cars available to the general public. How many of the current older cars running in stock actually started out as the actual car they are being raced as? To my knowledge NHRA has not ever checked the vin numbers to see if the car being raced was as it was produced friom the factory. The same thing can be done with the Drag Pak Challengers. Everyone that thinks you have to have an actual Cobra Jet or Drag Pak car to race a Cobra Jet or Drag Pak Challenger is blowing smoke up everyones rear.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

OK,you debunked that arguement.Hows about the disparity in the "true" HP and the
NHRA "factored" HP on these cars?

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

How much difference do you think there is between a 69 chevy 350 stocker engine in 2011 for example and what they were rated at in 1969? If you are going to compete against engines rated in a different era then you have to rate the current engines by the same standards or at least try to.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Arlen Fadley told me about 3%. Not near enough to make up for the differences seen with the new cars. Not even close.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Our Car was actually a 2005 development car originally built in 2003....and probably destined to be crushed.....and new fascias and grill and hood scoop....and a Shelby motor....and we were there....for a whole bunch less than a new one....and maybe a couple of other modifications.....lol....but the highlight is.....I don't know about you guys....but I like new.......Just sit in one....

...unfortunately our combo isn't under factored enough to get by the under factored Pontiac mounted to a skateboard....lol

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

One of the closest races I've seen. We were afraid you had an 8 second pass hidden away. Ten more feet and you would have won that one.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

It was fun.....a few more feet would have done it.........Bob did a great job....with his car...

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Rock, that Pontiac is one I can't see how it got approved. A 428 with round port edlebrock aluminum heads, give me a break. Plus I think it's rated less than a 400 with D port heads.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

The 428 Pontiac head deal looks like another case of accepting a product without researching the details. That seems to be happening a lot lately.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Actual is like 4.4 to 4.8 % there is a good web site Dyno Corrections that goes through the whole correction factors

http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-tec...horsepower.htm
and
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/cf.htm

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

The old combos evolved to where they are now,with all sorts of "enhancements" dished out by NHRA,in response to all the little back door rule stretching by those who wanted to be king.
These new cars are mostly all fast out of the box due to the "generous" HP assigned by NHRA.
Did you see Dave Barton's comment about his curiosity about how fast they would be with a bunch of R&D?Do I hear 8 second Stockers?
Bottom line,they're cool,but they need to have their own classes to beat each other up.
Now that would be a good thing for the fans to watch.Now it's like a karate grand master
beating up a 75 year old grandmother.Ask Jim Boudreau.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Do you actually think that all these cars were put together and became wickedly fast without any development? Do you think that maybe Ray Barton would like to sell Development time along with selling a few Drag Pak motors? Many of the Drag Pak owners have alot of money and I think that Ray Barton can see a new batch of customers wanting to unload some of it.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

The details were all known and due to the fact the Pontiac heads are almost extinct, NHRA decided to offer a option to the minority of Pontiac racers to use. This is no different than the majority of racers who have the after market blocks and heads and I could go on and on about all the major advantages the chevy racers have over the miniority of pontiac racers The bow tie block never came in a chevy from the factory etc .

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

The 350 thru 455 series real Pontiac engines never came in a Chevrolet. (period)

Corporate, my a**.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

True,they are wickedly fast because of modern technological advances.Still doesn't take the fact away that they are grossly UNDERFACTORED,which is what makes them so
hard for the older combos to keep up with them.
Refactor my gremlin from 150 HP down only 15 HP to 135.Makes me a V/SA car,and a heavy one at that.I can go 13:50s in crap air.V/SA index is 15.50.See my point?And that's only manipulating 15 HP.How off are the new cars????????

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

I didn't mean to start an anti Pontiac discussion....that motor did look pretty impressive in teardown.....and it is the hot ticket for GT/AA.....and the Cruzen family did a great job with it....He is the fastest one.... great job and a beautiful car....(and great driving)

Pretty competitive Combo.....

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

When I was speaking of Development I meant that several name engine builders such as Jeff Taylor, Tilburg, Patterson, Barton, and Holbrook to name a few, that I have heard, have been involved with these cars to make them go fast. Don't you think that they are applying that same engine building principles to the new engines as the old ones? You also have several chassis builders such as B&B and MPR also doing cars. These builders know how to put together fast cars whether they are the old cars or the new ones. Do you understand now why these cars are fast. It is not allways about what the factories did but also the aftermarket people involved also.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

But those same shops are building the older combos, and the engine builders will tell you the new stuff makes way more(one called it insane) power than similarly rated older stuff. Like Stock Eliminator Fords at 800 hp, SS versions at 1300. And 360" (rated at 275) DPs making 700? Doesn't sound wrong to you?
That new stuff is off more than any 4 or 5 percent.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

I don't think anybody being honest would debate what you posted.
No flies on your Mustang either. Very nice car.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

That's allwell and fine.The problem was/is/will be the bogus factoring is killing the competitive nature of the eliminator.Till they get their own classes they're (NHRA) sticking a knife and twisting it into the hearts of the competitors who inhabit the same classes.
Is that so hard to understand?????
Excuse my lack of knowledge,but do you race or have plans to race a DP/Mustang?

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

That's all well and fine.The problem was/is/will be the bogus factoring is killing the competitive nature of the eliminator.Till they get their own classes they're (NHRA) sticking a knife and twisting it into the hearts of the competitors who inhabit the same classes.
Is that so hard to understand?????
Excuse my lack of knowledge,but do you race or have plans to race a DP/Mustang?
Also you never addressed my comment about the consequences of the15 HP difference
in my gremlin would make.

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

They do now in a Cobalt!
Rock you guys did a killer job! Like you said its just fun plain and simple!

Re: Updated HP Ratings
 

Just wait til somebody puts one of the DP 5.7's in a mopar GT car. The current factor is NHRA factor is 305 lol.