SBC block filling ?
 

i have a 60 over 327 to assemble. i would like to fill [hard block or?] this block to the bottom of the water pump holes. i understand you can put a plastic tube in the water jacket to use the lower block drain.
if anyone has personally done this, would you either explain here in detail or e-mail me.
also what brand is the best?
thanks rod in AZ
hugunin@frontiernet.net

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

Of the commercially available block fillers, Hard Block is by far the best. I use Embeco 885 from White Cap Construction Supply, Darin Morgan of Reher and Morrison suggested it.

Yes, you can buy plastic tubing and stick it up through the drain holes. Some people just drill and tap the side of the block above the block filler, and drain it there.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

I hope your not going to fill a "ready to assemble" block.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

no, this block is still dirty. nothing done yet. however i do know a local guy who had his MoPar block all done and then filled it. sure messed up the cyl. walls.
=============================
i do like the idea of changing the placement of the drain. i thought about that. i wonder if i could braze a 1/2" to 3/8" pipe bushing on the side. the block is not of sufficient thickness to get more than one thread.
thoughts on this?
rod in AZ

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

I am very sure that I did not say this, but You may want to consider rust stripping the block inside. If you pour the block with the rust layer that is there, you will set up 2 problems 1: the rust acts as a blockage to heat transfer out of the cylinders 2: You will have poor adhesion by the block filler. Make sure you de-acid with a acid that does not attack the base met. Only use acid that attacks the rust oxide. If you do not find out what that is, PM me and I can tell you (but I didn't tell you)
reed

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

If you fill to the bottom of the w/p holes, then you don't need block drains. The water will run right out the front. Just pull the lower hose.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

that's correct mark. i have not thought all this through. rod

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

filling the block to the WP holes will still require a drain - the filler is not level with the ground, it's at an angle and will leave water in the block at the outside edge. I have drilled and installed 1/8" NPT drain plugs, plenty of room for threads.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

Phill is correct. Drill and tap it for new drain plugs. It's thick enough.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

Muriatic acid. Wash well and neutralize after.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

I've been reminded that the SBC w/p holes are towards the center of the block.
Even if your fill at an angle ,it'll still leave some water there.
Actually, I was picturing my 2300 4 cyl. when I made that comment...No drain plug required.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

Nope, Muriatic acid will attack the base metal (cast iron). The longer it is in contact with the cast iron, the more it will remove
reed

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

And the problem is . . . ? Been doing it for years with no problems. You can treat the block, rinse it out and neuetralize it with a couple of baths of strong baking soda solution in thirty minutes and be done. If you are using a concrete-based filler, you can pour it immediately. I have used Por-Rok and Rockite with great success. Phosphoric acid, Rust-Away and similar neutralizers take too long, will not clean nooks and cranies, and require scrubbing the scale off the parent metal, which is impossible to do in the water jackets of a block. If you don't get the scale out, there is a protective boundary layer that prevents the filler from adhering to the block and concrete-based fillers will eventually erode out.

We tried muriatic to "enhance" some cylinder head dimensions once, but it took twenty gallons, seven days and constant applied heat to remove .100". Somehow, that rate of "attack" on the base metal does not concern me.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

Dwight
It is not a problem for me. If you want to "enhance" it even more , use hydrochloric. You can do that in a matter of minutes. Oh, have you eaten into a gas pocket around the cylinder yet. And yes, using muriactic for years is what I have done, but like many other things, I have learned better tech does exist (for me). Heck you can even soak it in Pepsi, Molasses, sorghum or what ever your medicine. All will work and safer. Your decision.
reed

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

If I remember my chemistry correctly ( it's been 40+ years), muratic acid is diluted hydrocloric acid. Releases cloride so you want to do this with lots of ventilation.
Pete

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

Muratic acid from Home Depot works really nice.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

Yes, muriatic is low percentage hydrocloric solution. LOTS of ventilation. The common stuff that is sold for cleaning swimming pools can be diluted 2:1 with water and it still works very good cleaning the water passages in a block.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

I see no advantage to filling any block. When we used to do it on stock blocks, not one rebuild were the cylinders round. Quit filling, and everything stayed straight. The stones just chattered after a teardoiwn using hardblok.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

X2 If your having to fill a block your using the wrong block!!!!!

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

Randy
I would like to address this with my opinions and observation. Filling a block is a lot like purchasing a new block and putting it into service and is a lot like pouring new concrete. Lets address each one individually. If you purchase a new block, lets say a Dart, it will take a couple of tear downs and re-hones to get the bores to stabilize as the block has to go thru a "settling & curing" time. The aspect of pouring the block goes thru much of the same process as concrete. It will take that pour a couple of tear downs and re hones to stabilize also. Where I have seen definite advantages is where the block cylinders walls are thin and flex in the every firing pulse. I feel the poured block is a definite advantage but I also feel is does have a disadvantage. And that is the poured section runs at a different temp than that section with water going thru it, therefore they are 2 different dimensions. I have found that there is a definite small taper from top to bottom as a result of that temp difference. Most good machinist and racers know how to minimize that problem. Is the filler material a temp stabilizer? Not in my thought process. On any given run, the temperature in the block will begin to climb and will continue to grow thru the run. The filler material will continue to increase in temperature but the water cooled section will hit a maximum and then water will begin to cool it or stabilize it. This is not a perfect world, but with stock blocks, sometimes it is a necessity. There is another plus of a poured block over a stock block and without any doubt, the filler adds rigidity to the block. No doubt, in my mind, it strengthens the bottom end in the crank area. Is there a definite advantage to a poured block. I feel you have to look at each situation. A 9 to 1 motor doesnt need it as much as a 12 to 1 motor does and it goes on and on. But I feel if you do indeed pour a block, then by all means try to cure it after the pour for it to stabilize and shrink as much as possible before you machine it.
And I most certainly agree with Carl, that I never like a poured block over most after market blocks but as we all know, some manufactures do not have the advantage of an approved after market block and are forced to work with what they have and improve it any way that they can.
Hey just my thoughts.
reed

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

We have refreashened a lot of circle track engines using Bowtie and Dart blocks and so far have not seen any problems with cylinders being out shape during the rebuild, I would think if we had any issues we would see it on a leak down test or blowby out the breathers.

I don't know how pouring a block will make the bottom end stronger as it has nothing to do with the main webbing. Adding splayed caps will strenthen the bottom end!! as it ties the main webbing in with the pan rails.

The poured blocks we have seen where the pour stops show alot of wear as the bottom of cylinders do not come up to temp like the top of the cylinders do.

We sonic test all our blocks be fore any work is done and go from there!!!

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

X2

Use some good telemetry and find out the difference in temp of a filled block (the metal part, not the water that is circulating) at the bottom of the stroke and at the top after some hard runs. That will tell you much more than all this theorizing. I do know that a BBC early 396 block has an entirely different temp pattern than a sleeved 454 service block.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

When you drill into the side of the block for the water drain be sure to locate it away from the center of the cylinder and as close to the intersection of two cylinders as possible. Also be sure not to locate it under any head bolts. This will give you more room to use a pipe tap to thread your drain. If necessary you can cut off a tap with an abrasive cut off wheel and grind a new lead on the tap.

Re: SBC block filling ?
 

Yep, For sure!!