1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

In 1969, the NHRA instituted a 5-year rule for Super/Stockers,
forcing the 63' Max-Wedge cars back into Stock Class.

The NHRA also dropped the A/Stock class lower, (7.50 - 7.99 wt/hp).
This allowed some of the 426 Street-hemi's to get back into A/Stock.
http://66.154.44.164/jal_attachments...b?d=1253913835


In competition, the 63' 426/425HP Max-Wedge cars were, in most cases, able to out-run the Street-Hemi's, primarily in A/SA.

1969 NHRA Stock Classes.http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...sc001f426e.jpg

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

1969,,,,,,A/SA

1963 Plymouth Belvedere (Aluminum Nose)
w/ Ram-Air Hood Scoop
#3213 lbs.
426/425HP Stage II
7.56 weight-to-horsepower

versus

1968 Hemi Road Runner (Hardtop)
w/ Air Grabber Air Induction Package
#3595 lbs.
426/425 Street-Hemi (NHRA HP Re-factored to 475HP)
7.55 weight-to-horsepower

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

I find it interesting that the NHRA has never refactored the 415/425 hp ratings on the 63-64 Max Wedges in almost fifty years. I know they recently lowered the 62s. I'd love to run my big wagon in D/SA...

http://classracer.com/classforum/att...1&d=1318700576

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

On a little engine comparison.

1963 426/425HP Max-Wedge
13.5 to 1 Pistons
Cross-Ram Intake
#3447 Carter 625 AFB's
.509/.509 Solid-lift camshaft
Stage II Heads

vs.

1968 426/425HP Street-Hemi
10.25 to 1 Pistons
In-Line Intake
#4430 Carter 625 AVS's
.477/.480 Solid-lift camshaft
Cast-iron Heads

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

May 1969,,,,,,,,Dover Drag Strip, Wingdale, New York

Northeast Raider,,,,,,,,A/SA
1963 Plymouth Belvedere
426/425HP Stage II Max-Wedge (Aluminum-nose with Ram-Air)
11.90's @ 118 MPH.

versus

1968 Dodge Coronet R/T,,,,,A/SA
426/425 HP Street-Hemi
12.40's @ 115 MPH

May 1969
http://www.doverdragstrip.com/phpBB3...le.php?id=8662

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

I wonder how many street hemi's got killed by the max-wedges or better yet how many street hemi's won against any max-wedge cars? Does anyone have anymore info or photos on this.

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

Moose,

Back in 1969, most of the guys who had 68' or 69' Street Hemi's
were relunctant to race them,,,,,,,
More value in keeping them 'stock or in near stock condition'.

Those who did race them,,,while still on the street,,,,,
never really went full out with 'race preperation'.....
Most just threw on a set of Hooker Headers, maybe 4.10 or 4.56 gears and a pair of 7" slicks.
And were happy to run 12.60's.

In 1969, most, if not all of the top A/SA cars were 63' or 64' Max-Wedge cars.

If you had a good running 'Hemi', you were running in Super/Stock.

pc

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

An old thread I know and not all of us are here any more.
Paul's threads had SO much good info.


I'm (still) compiling old NHRA history and the idea that the MaxWedge was never refactored struck me.


WHERE DID THEY GO????


In all the old records and results sheets, the 63-64 MaxWedge just seems to VANISH after mid-1964 when the Hemi came out. Unfactored, the MaxWedge would've landed in the new AA/S=7.00 class with the 64 Ford LWG 427 HiRiser. Instead, the MaxWedge just vanishes.


It makes me think that NHRA either banned aluminum, or factored the MaxWedge at say 480hp back up into S/S against the Hemi, or something. What happened there????


Paul covered the re-start of the history in 1969 but why doesn't the MaxWedge show up in AA/S=7.00 or A/S=7.00 from late 1964 to early 1967?

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

They didn't vanish. If you're looking at records and results...remember, the Hemi and the lightweight Max Wedge's were both 426/425 hp...So they fell into the same class. A well tuned Hemi car should have been king over the MW cars in the same class anytime they ran.

Aluminum was banned for 1965 and later...but only on "new" production cars. 1964 and earlier cars are/were still legal with the aluminum body panels.

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

Steve, IIRC the Race Hemi was factored right away up to 480-505hp, somewhere in there. Otherwise, the Hemi would have run in AA/S with a wt/hp of 7.60 or so - same class as the Ford LWG Galaxie HiRiser. By factoring the Race Hemi, that put its wt/hp under 7.00, about 6.50 or so, and up into S/S class.


Now, if the MaxWedge was ALSO factored, it would be up there in S/S and lose to the Hemi. But everything I hear is, the MaxWedge was NOT factored and so its unfactored Wt/hp of 7.80-8.00 puts it into AA/S==7.00 class, right in there with the Ford LWG.


So my question stands!

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

Well, again, the Street Hemi was hitting the streets in late-'65 for 1966...those cars ran the same class as the MW cars.

As far as '64-65...a lot of focus on "match bash" stuff. Many of those cars were getting cut-up or parked. A lot of the same drivers who were running MW cars, got Hemi cars. Few drove two cars at one race.

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

Steve, Thanks for the reply, sadly that makes sense. The good old max wedge I feel would have done well all through the post-1964 era but lived in the Hemi's shadow. I'm sure factory backing for the Max Wedge cars/drivers was pulled in favor of the Hemi as you said.


Looking at Paul's race comparison above, I was reassured, I get about the same from my Gonkulator:
11.64 at 120.0 63 MaxWedge II 3220 lb 1964 prep, 1969 A/SA rules
12.16 at 115.7 69 Street Hemi 3677 lb 1969 A/SA rules


The MaxWedge2 gonkulates to about 515hp vs the StreetHemi at 500hp. Close, but there's still the 400 lb weight difference.


Fords 64 LWG HiRiser, which per the results/records dominated AA/SA=7.00 in 1964-66, Gonkulates to
12.12 at 115.9 1964 prep
11.75 at 119.5 1965-66 era prep


UNFACTORED, the MaxWedge hangs right in there vs either the 1964-66 era 64 Ford LWG or the Street Hemi from 66-up in the same w/p=7.00 class.


That's why I cant figure, why didn't Mopar back the MaxWedge as a competitor in AA/S, AA/SA ? I guessed it was Factored, but if not, I guess it was just "shunned" in favor of the Hemi. Oh well!

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

The 1965 Hemi Dodge and Plymouth S/S cars received thinner stamped steel front end fenders, hoods, bumpers and door metal when the Alum. parts were outlawed after 1964..

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

Max Wedge production ended when Hemi production started in 1964. It has been documented that a few people who ordered MW cars, received Hemi's...and weren't really pleased. Some soldiered on with success, others gave in early.

As far as what Paul posted above...not the best example. Jere Stahl was running mid-11's in 1966 with his Street Hemi Belvedere in A/S.

Why didn't Chrysler back the Max Wedge cars in Stock after '64? Why support something you're not selling...or even building anymore for that matter? While there were MW racers who did receive parts help from Chrysler after 1964...none were ever at the level of Sox or Landy with Chrysler support.

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

Thanks Steve it all kinda makes sense now.


Bear in mind though, A/S in 1966 was really more like SUPER stock rules - any cam, any intake - but just still on stock class tires. So Stahl's "street" hemi was quite a bit closer to a "race" hemi. Similarly, Grump's L79 Nova that "ran with" Stahl's hemi was far, far from a "stock class" L79, it was more like a full-on Super-Stock L79 and the result was a total screamer. The 1966 A/S rules were a lot more like next year's SS/BA=7.00 rules except for tires.

Re: 1969,,A/SA,,63' Max Wedge vs. Street Hemi
 

I'm still settling this issue in my mind, came up with the following:




In this thread, Paul C lists the cars/classes for 1966:
http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=46189


He lists the 426/425 MW cars in A/S=7.00 class, implying they were NOT refactored. OK score again for no refactoring.


What bothered me last nite (why????) is, what about the RECORDS? The MaxWedge cars went 12.00 S/S and 12.05 S/SA in the Jan 1964 records sheet. Since their W/P=7.58, they should have "moved" to AA=7.00 when it was created in June 1964, right? But on the Aug 1964 records sheet, they have vanished. It then occurred to me, when the classes change, can cars "move"? What I conclude is, cars can "move" on the record sheet, but only "across" eg from B/S=9.50 to D/S=9.50, or "up" eg from 8.70 to 8.50 class, but a record car CANNOT move "down", eg from 10.60 to 11.00 class or from S/S=0.0 to AA=7.00 class. The record has to be re-set. This is consistent with 1967-1968 when all the classes changed.


So yes (I am guessing), the old Max Wedge records set in S/S and S/SA would vanish - they would NOT drop down to AA/S and AA/SA.


Why weren't they re-set? I think Steve covered that well. Lost factory support, probably lost some magic "factory" transmissions, etc, some magic drivers too, and the records just didn't happen.


Does this sound about right?