1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Dave,

I tried to send a private message,,,,,,,:confused:

1967 Firebird;
326/250 HP (2-Barrel)
326/285 HP (4-Barrel) (also known as the 326 H.O.)
400/325 HP (non Ram-Air)
400/335 HP (Ram-Air) (in 1967 the NHRA re-rated it to 340HP)

Car Weights;
Hardtop (w/326),,,,,,,,,,,#3140 lbs.
Convertible (w/326),,,,,#3425 lbs.
Hardtop (w/400),,,,,,,,,,#3190 lbs.
Convertible (w/400),,,,#3481 lbs.

1967 NHRA Class (w/Hardtop)
326/250 HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,E/S
326/285 HP (H.O.),,,,,,,,,,,,,,C/S
400/325 HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,B/S
400/335 HP (Ram-Air),,,,,,,A/S or SS/D

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/pontiac/bilder/671.jpg
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0010_large.jpg

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpghttp://www.diecastfast.net/images/led_405.jpg


On the 67' Firebird 326 H.O.

A very-sharp car with the '326' call out emblem on the power-bulge hood, and
body-side stripe with the 'H.O' decal.

With a 11.02 Wt/Hp factor, it fell into the wrong end of
C/S in 1967.
But in 1968, with changes in Stock Class, it fell nicely
into G/S.

The 326 H.O. came through with the special body side stripe and
H.O. label.

A couple of little tricks, and you could get them to run high 13.00's,
and still drive them on the street.

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

http://www.montecarlo-restoration.co...togate1_sm.jpg
http://www.montecarlo-restoration.co...togate2_sm.jpg

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

H.O.

The numbers,,,,

1967 Pontiac Firebird and (1967 NHRA Class)

* Hardtop.........326/285 HP 'H.O.".........#3140 lbs.....(11.02 Wt/Hp)............NHRA Class = C/S
* Convertible...326/285 HP 'H.O'...........#3425 lbs.....(12.06 Wt/Hp)............NHRA Class = E/S

* Hardtop.........400/325 HP....................#3190 lbs.....(9.82 Wt/Hp)..............NHRA Class = B/S or SS/E
* Convertible...400/325 HP....................#3481 lbs.....(10.71 Wt/Hp)............NHRA Class = C/S

* Hardtop.........400/335 HP 'Ram Air'...#3190 lbs.....(9.38 Wt/Hp)..............NHRA Class = A/S or SS/D
* Convertible...400/335 HP 'Ram Air'...#3481 lbs.....(10.23 Wt/Hp)............NHRA Class = B/S

Note; The NHRA re-rated the 400/335 HP 'Ram Air' to '340 Horsepower'

http://www.motorera.com/firebird/1967/67fire3.jpg

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

H.O.

The Pontiac Firebird hit the 'showrooms' on February 23, 1967.

If you can find the article, Pontiac (Racing Staff) wanted to put together
'50 or so' 1967 Firebird Super/Stock cars before the 1967 Springnationals
in June 1967, to run in SS/D and SS/DA (8.70 - 9.49 Wt/Hp)

Marketed as a "400/366 HP" - 'Ram Air S/S'

* Solid Lifter Camshaft w/Radical Lift (.505/.505 Lift ~ 308*/318* Duration)
* TRW Pistons (11.0-1 Compression Ratio)
* #670 Cylinder Heads (2.11" Intake ~ 1.77" Exhaust ~ 72 CC Closed Chamber)
* Aluminum Intake
* Holley Carburetor (Model #3310 ~ 4160 Series ~ 780 CFM)
* Hooker Headers (placed in trunk)
* Dual-Point Distributor w/Mechanical Advance only
* 4.56 Gears w/12-Bolt Rear
* Traction Bars
* Special Drag Shocks
* 4-Speeds would come with (Safety Bell Housing, Special Heavy-Duty Clutch Package and Hurst Shifter)
* Automatics would come with (Special Torque-Converter and Heavy-Duty Transmission Clutch-Band Package)

* Heavy-Duty Connecting Rods
* High-Volume Oil Pump
* High-Capacity Oil Pan
* Heavy-Duty Main and Rod Bearings

Delivered 'only' to specific Performance-oriented Dealerships, and to be raced
by the Dealers in SS/D or SS/DA, and 'not' for resale and not to be offered to the public.

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

My first wifes first car was a '68 Firebird convertible 350HO 4speed, quite a performer.....

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

BB Dave.

The Pontiac 350 was a very 'under-rated' engine..

The 1967 and 1968 Firebird were nice 'light' cars, and were good
performers.

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

H.O.

Here is the NHRA Class List

1967 Firebird Hardtop

326/285 HP - HO 'High-Output' = (11.02 Wt/Hp)
* 1967......C/S
* 1968......G/S
* 1969......H/S
* 1970......I/S
* 1971......I/S
* 1972......C/S or SS/K
* 1973......G/S or SS/K

400/325 HP = (9.82 Wt/Hp)
* 1967......B/S or SS/E
* 1968......D/S or SS/F
* 1969......E/S or SS/I
* 1970......F/S or SS/H
* 1971......F/S or SS/H
* 1972......A/S or SS/H
* 1973......D/S or SS/H

400/335 HP 'Ram-Air' = (9.38 Wt/Hp)
* 1967.....A/S or SS/D
* 1968.....C/S or SS/E
* 1969.....D/S or SS/H
* 1970.....E/S or SS/G
* 1971.....E/S or SS/G
* 1972.....A/S or SS/G
* 1973.....C/S or SS/G

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

In 1968,,,

If you knew had to fit a car into the right NHRA Class -

The 1967 Firebird 400/325 HP 'convertible' was a 'perfect car' for F/S or F/SA in 1968 NHRA.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1967-PONTIAC-...Qeg~~60_57.JPG

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

March 1967 (Super Stock and Drag Illustrated)

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Super-Stock-D...FCM!~~60_3.JPG

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Kip,

The 1967 Pontiac Firebird came with either the 400/325 HP or the 'optional' 400/335 HP 'Ram-Air'.

The 400/325 HP had the same,
* 10.75 - 1 Pistons
* Casting #670 Cylinder Heads (72.0 CC)
* 2.11" Intake / 1.77" Exhaust
* Cast Iron Intake Manifold

Note; To get a 'true {10.75 - 1 Compression-Ratio}, the Cylinder Heads would require a {65.0} CC Volume.

Differences;

400/325 HP - Camshaft
* .421" Intake / .424" Exhaust
* 273* / 289" Duration
* 47* Overlap

Valve Springs (Inner & Outer)
* 103 lbs. to 117 lbs. {Valve Closed}
* 239 lbs. to 257 lbs. {Valve Open}

400/325 HP- Rochester 750 CFM Quadra-Jet
* #7037263 (Manual)
* #7027272 (Automatic)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

400/335 HP 'Ram-Air' - Camshaft
* .424 Intake / .424 Exhaust
* 301* / 313* Duration
* 76* Overlap

Valve Springs (Inner & Outer)
* 135 lbs. to 145 lbs. {Valve Closed}
* 287 lbs. to 303 lbs. {Valve Open}

400/335 HP 'Ram-Air' Rochester 750 CFM Quadra-Jet
* #7037273 {Manual}
* #7037276 {Automatic}

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

1967 Pontiac Firebird 'H.O'

Called the 'Light Heavyweight'

With a 'special' 'High Output' 326/285 HP.

285 Horsepower @ 5000 RPM's
359 Foot Pounds/Torque @ 3200 RPM's

* 3.719" Bore x 3.750" Stroke
* 10.5 -1 Compressior Ratio

Featuring Casting {#141} 'High Compression' Cylinder Heads with
(52.0 CC) Combustion Chambers.

1.92" Intake / 1.64" Exhaust

Camshaft = .386" Intake / .421" Exhaust - 269* / 277* Duration - 47* Overlap

Valve Springs = (#95 lbs. = Valve Closed) - (#225 lbs. = Valve Open)

Carter AFB (600 CFM) - (1 7/16" Primary x 1 11/16" Secondary)

Dual Exhaust (2.00" Primary} - (2.25" Tail-Pipe)

4-Speed (M-20 Wide-Ratio) = 2.52 - 1.88 - 1.46 - 1.00

Clutch = 10.4" (6.5" Inside) - .140" Thickness - #2050 lbs.. Load-Rate

2-Speed Power-Glide Automatic

Gear-Ratio's = 3.08 - 3.23 - 3.36 - 3.55 - 3.90
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Special Order Options;

* 4-Speed (M-21 Close-Ratio) = 2.20 - 1.64 - 1.28 - 1.00

* Turbo Hydra-Matic (3-Speed Automatic)

* 4.33 Gear-Ratio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Only 6078 Produced

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.46841...55048&pid=15.1

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Kip,

The $64,000 question......

How many 1967 Pontiac Firebird's were ordered with an M-21 Close-Ratio 4-Speed, and 4.33 Gears.

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Zero'

Nobody ever ordered one.

Productions Numbers
Firebird - 326 'H.O'...................6078
Firebird - 400.........................18,632
Firebird - 400 'Ram-Air'...............65

Total.........................................24,7 75

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Kip,

The Turbo Hydra-Matic (3-Speed) was 'only' avaibable with the
Firebird 400.

The Firebird 326 'H.O' could 'only' get the 2-Speed 'Power-Glide'
for an Automatic.

Both the Firebird 326 'H.O' and Firebird 400 had;

* Special Suspension Package
* #345 lbs/inch Load-rate 'Front Springs'
* #135 lbs/inch Load-rate 'Rear Mono-Leaf Springs
* 5/8" Front Sway-bar

* Automatics had a Traction-Bar installed for the right rear.
* 4-Speeds had 'dual' Traction Bars

* 10-Bolt Rear-Ends

* Dual Exhaust

Note; The 400/335 HP 'Ram-Air' engine had '428' exhaust manifolds.

Note; The 400/335 HP 'Ram-Air' engine had a 'special calibrated'
Rochester 750 CFM Carburetor.

Note; 'Ram-Air' option (Cost; $263)

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Probably nobody that cares, but there is some slight misinformation this thread.

First thing I'll say is that I've never heard of anybody running the 326 in a competitive Stocker. The holes are just too small.

But, can anybody here site any competitive 326 powered Stockers ?

The Pontiac 2-speed auto was referred to as a "power-glide". It's my understanding that all the '64-'69 Pontiac A & F-body 2-speed autos were not Chevy Powerglides, but were what some call a "Super Turbine 300". I think these were also used in some Buicks & Olds too. IIRC, they could use a TH350/TH400 type converter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Turbine_300

BUT, after '69, SOME Pontiacs did come with a PG trans. I think some of 'em came with a dual pattern case & some came with that same case, but only the BOP holes were drilled.

I only bought one of the dual pattern PG's. Actually bought the whole car(what was left of it) from a U-Pull-It yard. I think it was a '71 Bird. May have been a '70. When I unbolted it from the 350 engine, the bell housing part fell into several pieces. :( Couldn't tell it was cracked, because of all the caked on dirt. I only saw one other, which was in a Lemans. I wanna say that they only came in Pontiacs in '70 & '71, but could be wrong.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293982744520

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

" A couple of little tricks, and you could get them to run high 13.00's, and still drive them on the street."

I doubt that, seriously.

Very few '60's & early '70's big engine Musclecars would run 13's, on the street. Most ran 14's. My '69 366hp GTO would barely run 13's, with hard street tires, and that was with 3.90 gears. Would take some serious changes from a stock 326 Bird, to get the little 326 to run in the 13's, and still be streetable, IMO.

But hey, what do I know. There may have been 13 sec 326 powered Birds in almost every area that had a Pontiac dealer. I certainly never ran across one.

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Since this thread was started nearly 10 years ago, I'll update it a bit.

Since the thread was posted, there have been two 10 sec '67 Birds. Most all Stock/SS racers know about Randi Lyn Shipp's '67. She's won at least 7 nat events, may be 8 now. I forget.

And, most Pontiac Stock/SS racers know about Bryan Phillips's '67 Bird. It also runs 10's & has qualified near the top, at lots of races. Don't know if he's won a nat event or not. But he has won some smaller races.

Joel Larkin has the only '67 SS Bird I know of that's still active.

BTW, notice in pic #4 that Randi Lyn's '67 400 Bird has what appears to be the 326HO stripes.

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Continuing with the subject of the thread, I have pics of some '67 birds from back in the old days.

The 1st 5 are of Stockers. #5 is OHC Six powered.

Roy Gay, of Gay Pontiac in Southeast TX, drove a '67 Bird in Super Stock. Don't have any record of times turned or race results.

Another '67 was driven by Tony Knieper. Looks like it may have been sponsored by Gratiot Auto Supply & Stan Long Pontiac. Pic caption says the car held a nat record.

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Bottom Center:
Knieper May 1968 SS/FA=9.50 class record, 12.16 at 113.92mph
Pretty sure thats a RamAir at 335hp or 340hp factored.
I'm still guessing on some of the factoring.
I know at some point NHRA started to factor the Firebird engines same as the GTO, figuring that:
1. Everybody had figured out how to get the Qjet to fully open and
2. Everybody ran headers so the exhaust manifold differences were nil.
So at some point, late 1968 or 1969, that 1967 Ram Air was factored to 360hp which bumped it up a class hotter.

In the current class guide, the manual & auto cars are listed at the same weight. But for some reason, in my own edits for "back in the day" I'm adding 54 lb for the T400 trans, as NHRA sometimes does, & sometimes doesnt. Not sure which is right.


BTW - is there a way to tell a RamAir car from a Non-RamAir car?
Since they share the same hood it often isn't clear from the pictures.

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

It has to be more than just the small hole (3.718" bore) that is the problem with the 326 ci Pontiac. People build the 305 ci SBC 3.736" bore and run well.

Stan

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

I'll take a stab at this.

Now this is my opinion of why nobody has/would build a 326 powered Stocker.

(1) The 326HO carb is a an AFB. It seems that most all the popular Pontiac combos are Q-jet equipped. It has been proven that legal 750 Q-jets will feed even low 9 sec SS engines, & 10 sec Stocker engines. Therefore, a Q-jet would not be a choke point for a 326 engine.

(2) The NHRA hp factor of 285 is just too high to make the 326HO competitive. There are later Q-jet equipped 400 cube engines that have a lower hp factor. The '68 Q-jet equipped 350HO has an hp factor of only 305. That would make it much more competitive than a 326 @ 285hp. Don't know how low the 326 engine hp factor would have to be in order for it to be competitive. But obviously, if you get the hp factor low enuff, you can make most any combo competitive. There have several very competitive 4-cyl cars.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...0&MAKE=Pontiac

(3) There are no legal replacement 326 pistons listed. So, anyone who wanted to build a 326 Stocker would have to get a piston made & NHRA approved. Adam Strang did this for the '68 Pontiac 350.

(4) Not sure, but I assume that the auto trans equipped 326 cars came with the 2-speed. I think you can now run a 3-speed. But, this was probably a major consideration, back when you had to run what it came with. I'm quite sure that's why there were VERY few '64-'66 GTO Stockers which ran an auto trans.

(5) Bottom line is that there are just too many other Pontiac combos that are much better choices, for a variety of reasons. Therefore, I don't expect there will ever be a 326 Stocker built.

"...People build the 305 ci SBC 3.736" bore and run well."

As to that statement: The '80 Bird I bought in recent years had a Q-jet equipped 305 in it. So, just out of curiosity, I just looked up the 305 powered '80 Pontiacs.

For all Pontiac models except the Birds, the hp factor is 235. That's 50 hp LESS than the 326 Pontiac engine, plus it has a Q-jet. Hey, at 235hp, the 326 MIGHT be competitive. Don't know.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Top row left side, the 1015 car my guess for C/SA is 1968 where C/SA=9.00, and the RamAir was already factored to the GTO's 360hp. Adding 56 lb for the T400 trans I get W/P=9.01, a perfect fit to class.

Otherwise, factoring the RamAir engine to 340hp and NOT adding the 56 lb for the T400 trans gives W/P=9.38.

Either way, 1968 seems to be the only year that would fit, or 1973 & newer but the picture just looks "old".

Since today's NHRA class guide does NOT add the 56 lb for the T400 in the Firebird, maybe it was never added. Manufacturers were inconsistent about this - sometimes they add 50 lb or so for an auto trans, sometimes they dont. That's in Today's NHRA Excel files. I dont have the old class guides so guessing a little.

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Interesting. While it may have an AFB carb and not a Q-Jet. The Throttle and Venturi sizes listed on Class Racer Info for the '67 285 HP 326 are the same sizes as was used for the '66 335 HP 389 engine.

Stan

Re: 1967 Pontiac Firebird
 

Yeah, I suspect that lots of Pontiacs used that same size AFB.

Same with the Q-jet. Most of the Pontiac engines used the same size Q-jet, during the same model year. There were exceptions, such as the SD455 Q-jets. Also the rare 455HO Q-jets that didn't have the outer booster rings.

Hey, some of the OHC Six engines had a Q-jet.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

Some 301's came with an 800cfm Q-jet.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

I suppose the main thing is that Q-jet equipped Pontiac Stockers are not power limited by the carb, since the Q-jets can feed low 9-sec SS Pontiacs. I suppose the quickest Pontiac powered SS pass may have been the 8.90, made by the GT/AA 428 powered Cobalt, raced by Robert Cruzen. That Q-jet had to be the 750cfm size. I suppose some refer to that size as the "small" Q-jet. Don't know.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2016#indextop