Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

It's been a year now since they've been reinstated. Has anyone built one?

Or are the HP ratings too unrealistic, compared to the slicker, newer bodies, to be competative pushing those big shoeboxes down the track.

I would think that it would generate some spectator interest for stock elim., one of the newer factory race cars chasing down a crowd favoriate oldie.

Or, are the guys that would have been interested in building one just too old to care anymore?

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Finding all the correct parts could be a holdup !
And finding a decent body could be a pain.........
I think there should be some coming out in the next year......I HOPE !

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I know of one, that has been raced in my races and IHRA since 2009. The Hurley Family from Maryland have a P/SA '55 Chevy, they raced it this year at the Atco LODRS and an IHRA race or two, plus Hagerstown. Daughter Shelby usually runs it.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Bobby, watch how you throw that term 'too old' around. However I think some old stuff would be real neat. Picture a new Drag Pak chasing a 57 Chev 270 HP, Bel Air, Red with black interior. Too Cool.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I have all the parts and pieces to build my 1955 belair htp. but NHRA has not decided to lower the HP factor to a reasonable number, 205 hp is way to high for the 180 hp 265. the AHFS committee seems to think 25 hp over a factory rating somehow is justified, but a supercharged mustang factory rating was ok to leave alone. Its obvious the letter I wrote fell on deaf ears and NHRA has made the choice to limit older vehicles to run in Super/Stock I guess. For the record Val Hedworth set the Jr.Stock record @ 14.13 @ Fremont Dragstrip in Northern California about 1971 it was a T/S at that time, in a direct comparision a P/SA of today is the same weight break 16.00 lbs. the index is 13.45 in P/SA now, Jr. Stock rules allowed custom lite wt. dyke ring pistons in those days also, so how NHRA can hang this penalty of 25hp on this 265 180 hp engine just isn't logical................. Just my 2 cents

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

RE: 1955 Chevy 265 cu in 180/205 Horsepower factor review for STOCK ELIMINATOR

I am submitting request for a Review of Horsepower factor which involves specifically the Chevrolet
Engine from the year 1955. This engine described here and further referred to as the 1955 265 cubic inch
180 horsepower/factored 205. The reasons for this request will be shown by existing performances as recently as a LODRS event @ Cecil County Dragway Aug 19-21-2011 and Atco Dragway Aug 5-7-2011 driven by Carsten Wendlandt and Shelby Hurley respectively. Shelby Hurley received a BEST ENGINEERED CAR AWARD proving the commitment to this combination and ultimately also showing a first class effort for performance. Hurley's car was built by her father Steve Hurley who competes in SUPER/STOCK again proving that a very credible effort was built to run well. Both Wendlandt and Hurley ran in the P/SA class and both showing above the P/SA index of 13.45, performing in the 13.80's significally above the index and therefore NOT
COMPETITVE as the classification now stands 180/205 factored. This 265 engine the 180 hp./205 factored was the first V-8 Chevy built so some inherent performance limitations were attached with this the 180/205 engine, the intake manifold #3711348 is one off design like no other on its comparison of other small Chevy intakes which sports a very small port design comparatively to other later castings. The Carter wcfb carb is a very small cfm rating around 400 cfm and the camshaft lift is the shortest of all the small chevy
engines @ 334/334 lift. Intake port design and its cc volume of 120/55 Intake and exhaust brings truth to the fact that this was not a performance orientated engine design, with every aspect of its design being of LOW PERFORMANCE genre. I forgot to even to mention the 8 TO 1 COMPRESSION RATIO, EIGHT TO ONE REALLY how low can low performance go the 265 cu inch 180 hp small block chevy is a grocery getter engine and a 205 hp factor is absurd at best. I believe as with other car/engine combinations horsepower factoring should be used based on information based facts not a "guesses”. The AHFS is in place to correct dominate car/engine combo's this the 1955 chevy 265 cu in 180 hp engine was factored prior to anyone even building this vehicle for competition. The commitment and financial outlay for any race car project built to run N.H.R.A. should always be protected by the N.H.R.A. to insure a equitable and unbiased place to race and build any combo at a competitive basis. For a further comparison I would like the horsepower lowered to the original 180 hp which will reclassify this combo to a much more equitable class but definitely may still have a reservation as to its final horsepower rating citing the 1960 chevy 283/230 hp factored @ 215 showing that a 205 factor on the 265 cu in 180 hp engine is just not justified. See below a comparison with the former RECORD HOLDER for U/SA a 1960 Chevy Wagon 4dr sedan and the 1955 Chevy Belair 2dr Htp with factor of 205 being reclassified to 165 hp.

1960 Chevy Brookwood Wagon (former record holder) 1955 Belair 2dr Htp

283 cu in 230/215 factored hp PWF 20.00 265 cu in 180/165 factored hp PWF 20.00
9.5 compression ratio U/SA 8.0 compression ratio U/SA
Hyd flat tappet cam 399/399 lift Hyd flat tappet cam 334/334 lift
4 bbl carter wcfb 434 cfm 4bbl carter wcfb 400 cfm

heads- intake valve 1.725 heads- intake valve 1.725
exhaust valve 1.500 exhaust valve 1.500
port volume CC intake 140cc port volume CC intake 120 cc
exhaust 60cc exhaust 55 cc
transmission 3-speed t-350 transmission 2 speed powerglide

The above comparison shows where these 2 vehicles would classify with the current PWF of the 1960 Chevy Wagon and the new 165 hp PWF for the 1955 Belair, so in conclusion please receive my request for a review of 1955 Chevy 265 cu in 180 hp engine and lower the horsepower to at the very least the factory rating of 180 hp, but most likely to have any chance should be lowered to 165hp 15 hp below the factory rating like the 1960 chevy 283/230 hp factored @ 215 hp engine with 18 cu in more, bigger cam, 9.5 to 1 cr, and a WCFB that is more CFM the argument should be for even a lower factor than the 180 hp requested but to be fair 165 hp would be more in line with what the 283 cu.in 230/215 was factored.


This was the letter I submitted to the AHFS committee ,to try and lower the hp on the 1955 265 180 hp engine............Just my 2 cents

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

It would be so sweet to see some of these cars out there. I would even like to see some photos of some being prepared. To anyone building....good luck

Wade Mahaffey

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4455479_n.jpg
Shelby Hurley's P/SA '55

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Looks like the committee thinks 205 is the correct horsepower since they denied the request.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

All combinations should start at the advertised horsepower. 205hp does not work. Or maybe I am not sharp enough to make it work.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Then "the committee" doesn't have a clue what it's doing.
No reduction here,..... then giving back some to the 273 record holder?

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Sorry....I double posted.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Steve....when I worked with IHRA I pulled the 1955 180 HP combo BACK to 180 HP. I used all of the factors from the OLD NHRA "RED" class guide. Check with Hank Blankenship or Danny Waters. If it went back to 205 HP (S/S factor) I dont know when or why it was done. In my opinion that was the WRONG thing to do. We had a couple of '55 Chebies running with IHRA in stock and pure stock about 10-12 years ago.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Sounds like this is a bad combo for winning class,winning heads ups,and setting records.

(Welcome to my world)

Aside from that,isn't it possible to build one to run the index at the current horsepower rating?

As we are always reminded on Classracer....its just a bracket race.(Providing you can run the index)

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Just play the HP game it's not that hard if you can read and follow rules. The 273ci mopar combo ran -.40 something under the index twice at one national event. These were the only two runs for this half of the season.
According to the NHRA posted HP reduction rules it received a 1.25% hp reduction. End of story just like my 281ci SS combo in the first half.

Did the 1955 265ci combo run index?

The combo MUST at least run the index to be eligible for a HP reduction.

If any car makes one run over -.85 under the index that combo is ineligible for a HP reduction.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Doug , I ran 13.80`s with this combo in 1971 . Set the National Record at 13.90 .

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Charley, it is -.85 under for one run and two runs of .65 under you go to the average`s. Tom

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Also dropping the indexes .3 did nothing to help this situation.

Is it true you must at least run the index to get the horsepower lowered?

Allan

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Here is the class page from the red book with the date 1975

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I believe they made that rule in the interest of saving time.

Right now,cars are shutting off at 1000ft to get horsepower off.

If you didn't need to at least run the index to get horsepower off,then cars would be lifting after the 60 ft clocks!

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Thanks, CB, I did not know that.
So, they really don't need any new cars out there?


How about when they have the Stockers factored at the Super /Stock number?

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Mark define new cars.

NHRA is happy as long as they have 32-65 cars per class at national events (AKA Filler for pro’s).

This past year NHRA lower the year from 1960 to 1955 in stk. How many cars from 1955-1959 ran STK this year? One maybe two, good rule change it’s really helping raise the car counts and save STK. I have nothing against these older cars. I think they are cool but facts are facts no one is going to spend $30,000 plus build a 1955 chevy for P/SA, Q/SA or R/SA

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Are they shutting off during eliminations also?


-Toby

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Everybody shuts off during eliminations.Break out and you lose!

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

That would make another GOOD thread.

My engine is rated the SAME in Stock and Super Stock also.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

10 less than the factory rating. Maybe need to shut off at 1000'? LOL ;)

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

You are almost there now.5 more HP to go!

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

There is a 1956 265 with a factory rating of 205 and a current NHRA rating of 205.

Perhaps they believe the 1955 265/180 and the 1956 265/205 are the same?

(I was too lazy to research all of the numbers.)

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Paul, thats exactly the point the index is 13.45 for P/SA the 2 cars running now from my info is that they run 13.80's now I dont know if games are being played, has anyone seen or talked to Steve Hurley he sounded on this post like its a legit deal (no Games) and the car runs 13.80's. If NHRA wont reduce a factor until it runs the index like was said why the heck do we have a AHFS system in place for it only drives up the cost of racing a Stocker when a car is hit with weight the whole combnination has to be adjusted maybe a cam change, gear , and so on..........Just my 2 cents

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Bunkster, Yes their is a difference between the 205 hp 56 265 and the 180hp 55 factored 205 engines the 1956 engine is available with the larger Rochester carb thats why it is 205 hp both the Carter and the Rochester were available in 1956 splain that Lucy (NHRA) ? the Carter carbs are the same SPEC but the Rochester( Mr. Benny) is larger.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Currently there is only one car competing as p/sa(55chevy) in div 1. I had a friend drive Shelby's car at cecil county.

No games, nothing to hide, that's all we have.

If we need to run the index to get horsepower correction, I am out of ideas, unless I use a 283 shortblock LoL.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

This is true until you look at the carbs side by side and compare them, flow bench, on track etc. The 205hp on the 56 is incorrect it should be lower. The 180/205hp is incorrect. Steve H. and his daughter are very sharp and good racers if he says it runs that, then that is what it runs. The 55 has a one off intake, unlike the 283's, it has to keep the powerglide (which it should) unlike some other combos that now are allowed a 3speed autos, etc. Keep submiting your letters and making your case. If I could I would build another one. These older cars have allot of personallity and they stand out from the other year cars. It is a game and it depends on how you play it. Steve H. I will send you a PM about this.

Robert

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Actually running a 10th under the index or slower won't get a review. You have to run quicker than a 10th under, but no more than .65 under twice or .85 under once to get a review for a reduction.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

.101 Under is the correct figure

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

The reason you don't see any pre '60's cars racing is answered in the above pages....what are you going to race other than a '55-'57 Chevy and they aren't competitive under exisiting rules.

JimR

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

So what are the chances that NHRA will open up the Stock Car Classification Guide and add something besides pre-1960 Cadillac's and Chevrolet's? Right now that's all that's available. Think the J-2 Oldsmobile or Twin-H Power Hudson would make an interesting stocker if the horsepower factor was realistic? Or a Y-block Ford Fairlane called "Maybelline"!;)

Lew

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

So-after aquiring the needed parts to get my '57-150 to run m/sa with one wcfb or k/sa with the 2x4 setup is the consensus here that I'm wasting my time-money and effort on a project that cannot compete?

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Back in 1970, a friend in HS had a 57 T Bird with a 312, that would be a cool car to run. A 58 Fury like Christine with a dual quad 350 rated at 310 HP would be moderately competitive, basically a 383/343 with a smaller bore and a little less cam lift, I think NHRA want's all the old cars and old farts to go away, in a way I see their point, our time has come and gone.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I personally, would pay money just to be in the same pits as Hayden Proffitt.
But then I'm the same guy who will actually look away when a D/P Mopar, or "supercharged Mustang makes a pass.

It's all personal tastes. 55 Chevy 265's, Red Ram Hemi's, Y block Fords, are really what kicked this off. Let's show a little respect !

LONG LIVE THE REAL CARS, AND the OLD FARTS WHO DRIVE THEM !

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Old and Cagey has beat Young and Cocky on more than one occasion fellas just remember you have to know were you've been before you can get where your going (Old Guys Rule) behind every champion is his Father, I didnt change the rule to let 1955 cars in NHRA did but us OLD GUYS arent stupid , we know when were getting a bad deal. Factor these engines correctly, thats all we ask and let the front tires get the win light not the wallet. After all its just bracket (brake) racing . All factory race cars really only were started being run in about 1962 (409 impalas , max wedge mopars, 427 fairlanes-galaxies-mustangsetc.) so that would make all those muscle cars of the 1960's 50 years old this year Long live the boomer generation.