Test & Tune Pricing
 

T&T sessions are valuable to all of us, however, are sometimes costly. How much should it cost and what kind of track prep is reasonable? I realize that track operators have to make money but when T&T sessions are $100 / car and track prep is virtually non-existant, what value is there? Is it possible to have a $50 T&T with one lane prep? Thoughts? Personally, $100 is too high while $50 would allow us to test 2 cars at every opportunity.

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Vegas is usually around $50 with prep. Wednesday nights are $30, no prep (I think).

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Since the tracks already have to pay their help wether there are two or twenty cars.
They have to pay X dollars. Why not charge $30 or $40 and have a hundred guys testing.
Seems like a win win to me.

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I thought that $100.00 for a one-day T&T sounded a little high, but with traction compound costing upwards of $800 a barrel, I guess that's fair. Depending on how big a crowd there was, you should be able to make as many runs as you want and that might make it more reasonable, but it's still only $60 less than the entry fee for the whole race weekend!

Lew

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it has been my experience that most of the time the test and tune session are not worth it . Most of the time the track does not prepp the track at all .:mad::confused:

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the easy solution would be to make it a $50 TnT with a minimum number of cars, then ask for a "pre entry" or a commitment. If you don't reach the minimum number in pre entries, then it would go up to $100 on site. I would think that would be motive enough to have people pre enter to save $50, the track might even make more money.

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our local track here in jersey , etown has a 100 t&t every sunday . at 100 a car very few take advantage of it because the track prep is less than desirable and i have known the starter tom r. for over 40 years ; that being said if your car is close to right i find that if you watch who goes down in front of you[ street car non slick tire cars] and be sure there is no water dragged up you can usually do ok, the real problem is the amount of breakage and down time on any given sunday or wednesday nite; and it is mostly the import crowd to blame!

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Why would I pay $100 to test n' tune when I can run for $5,000 to win for that? :confused: $35 is plenty for a test and tune. Most tracks' weekly test n' tune is cheaper than that. Guess it costs 5x as much to have a class car go down your race track... One thing's for sure, at $100, the track will receive $0 from me.

Supply and demand. They charge $100 because enough people actually pay it. Don't stand for it, and the price will come down.

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Every Thursday (it's called Rock's Rental) before our 1st Friday of each month Friday Heads Up Series Race we have a proffesional test session from 12pm-8pm one lane prepped. Pro Mods all the way down to NHRA stockers show up every month cost is $100 Track is fully prepped for maximum traction.

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A little off topic but think Rowland and the folks at SGMP have it right by offering a 5K to win combo race on the Friday of their D2 race. This eliminates the need for T&T unless you're wanting to make several major changes, in which case you need to go to a dedicated test session at a good track. The combo race gives you at least 3 hits, granted it cost $200 to enter but whens the last time you had the opportunity to win 5K on the Friday before the Divisional on Sat and Sun? (Similar to the Bowling Green 5K Nitroplate race on the Saturday night of the National Open.....another no-brainer but you'd be surprised how many people passed on the 5K race). No alchohol cars opens up so many possibilties.

I'm with you guys, for me $100 for T & T ain't gonna happen!

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Rock's Rental????

Do I get a discount...?

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Test and tune is only worth it if the track prep is excellent, the session is at least 8-10 hours, and down time is kept to a minimum. For that, $100 is not a terrible price. Anything less than that is hardly worth the effort, much less the time, the diesel to get there, and the unnecessary wear and tear on the car to learn very little. Yes, that especially applies to taking an extra day off of work to come to a "day before" test and tune.

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Alan : you nailed the issue perfect :)

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Spend a day at you local track for a bracket race. One hundred or more cars, 99% with slicks, a maintained surface, all for a $50 buy in and a chance at around $1200 to win for your efforts. I call that a good test and tune with the most bang for your buck.

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Milan Dragway and maximum traction in the same post?

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No, you pay more :-)

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Every time I went to a local track T & T actually there were three times, (not counting T & T prior to a Divisional event) there were trucks there that looked like they just ran a mud race, shaking at the starting line and dropping crap all over the already "not quick well prepped" track.

So in those cases we just took an easy run to make sure everything worked as planned, and couldnt really trust wringing out the car, when it would be so easy to break something.

$40 for those runs wasn't too bad.

David
The New Hemi Guy

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That's the best time to test. If you can make your junk work on that it will work on anything. We have one particular track we use just for this reason.

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That's not the reason I go to test. I'm sure as Hell not going to pay the track for that, take a day out of the shop, buy diesel, buy race gas, and put wear and tear on the car to go spin the tires. I can do burn outs in the drive way if all I want to do is waste time and money.

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I don't need to test for a poorly prepared track , and I should not have to tune my car for a unsafe track . It is the responsibility of the track to prepare the track with safety in mind as well as great traction . I have just about quit testing and tune as the last 40 or so times the track is junk for my car , maybe not junk for a bracket car , or maybe a clutch car who can slip the clutch ,but for the higher HP cars test and tune is a waste most of the time

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$100 for a test session is rediculous. No matter where it is and no matter how good the track is prepped.

The track at Hagerstown MD has test and tune on Saturday's. $30 for a 5-6 hour session. Normally you can make as many runs as you want...8, 10 runs is not uncommon (though November 5th was pretty packed and not sure if anyone got more than 6-7 runs). Track is (was) always prepped very well when they used VHT. This year, they switched to VP, and the track doesn't seem to work as well as when they used VHT (from what I hear, in the near future, many tracks will be switching to VP over VHT for cost/EPA issues).

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Very interesting!

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While I agree, $100 is a lot of money for a test and tune, I'd be a lot more wiling to pay $100 and get a session that was well run and had good track prep, than to pay $40-$50 for a session that wasn't well run, and/or didn't have good track prep. The rest of the costs are the same.

On the subject of traction compounds, I suppose the next thing will be which tire manufacturer does the best job of adjusting their tire compound to work with whatever the most common traction compound is. If that is even possible.

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I will never understand people moaning and groaning about track prep all the time. Work on making the car work in the worst of conditions.....

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Just yet ANOTHER reason why Stock and Super Stock is NOT always just a bracket race.

What does your car run in 60ft?

60 ft is everything to a true Super Stock/Stock racer

How can you determine if you have improved your 60 ft or ET while testing something,if you lose two tenths in the first 60 ft????

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Well, we pay various fees, some of which supposedly go toward track prep. I don't know about you, but I have this really bizarre desire to get whatever I paid for, at least within reason. If part of what I am charged at the gate is supposed to go toward the cost of track prep, then I figure it is reasonable of me to expect decent traction on the starting line.

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That was an interesting comment....... Are you suggesting that bracket racers do not work on their cars?

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They most certainly do work on their cars,but the goal is not always to go as fast as possible.

If you are trying to run the index or as far as you can under the index,you don't always have the luxury of "detuning" your car.

Some can put a bunch of extra weight in.What if that causes you to slow down and run OVER the index?

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Test 'n' Tunes can be hit and miss for myself. A lot depends upon the weather and turn-out regarding to street tired cars. It's difficult to test or learn anything when its very windy, particularly if you run a car that's not very aerodynamic. Although the street-driven cars have every right to be there and pay to run as well, naturally they track dirt and drag water up on the starting line. My .02.

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Personaly I haven't been able to learn a damn thing at open test and tunes. Bagley, Cupp and I rented Maryland International Raceway nine times last year for $800.00 ----- We're allowed 8 cars and we get one lane fully prepped from 9:00 am to 5pm. Our group consists of all class cars. Everyone looks out for each other and waits for each car to complete their run from burnout to finish line so you can film and hear everything. Most make between 6-12 passes depending on what you're changing. You could actually double that amount if the car could take it. We come up a car or two short occasionally so If any of you live close enough and want to get on the call list let us know.

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Danny Latimore , you have a PM .........

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Dave-----Can't make the pm thing work. Will call you later-----Danny

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Well said Mark............
I find it a shame that most "class racers" do not bracket race. They must think it is sacrilegious. Most of the time the gate is cheaper, the payout is greater than any NHRA race and you are home that night.
If there is any doubt, just ask Mark Faul.

BTW Mark.............if you are coming south for the Holiday, shoot me a PM, lets have a beer.

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At the outlaw track, 15 minutes from my front door, there is a $20 car and driver fee to test and tune. The owner raised that fee, two years ago, from $10. Not because he wanted to make more money, but because he wanted to make the crowd smaller. They were filling the place up so badly that many of the spectators were parking out on the road and it was getting to be a real nuisance for local residents. And yes, the track surface prep is just fine. Take care. Tom Worthington

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Hi Charlie. I'm staying home for the holidays, but thanks for the offer. Will have to wait till the Winternationals. As long as I make it there.

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Mark, there will be a lot more S/SS cars testing and running Summit races here with our current lack of tracks schedule..... Best bang for the buck out here for sure.

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We can test for $20 on a well prepped track or $15 on a junk track. Will go to both depending on what we are trying to accomplish. I've heard plenty of complaints about the racing surface at divisional and national events in the past few years. Makes me wonder why you wouldn't want to have a setup for when you end up on a junk racing surface.

If the track is junk at an event, then it's junk for everybody, not just you. The difference maker is if you can get down a track that isn't prepped well.

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while there has definitely been some complaints about track conditions this year, the point is that should never happen at a divisional or national. We should not have to set up for a crap track at a divisional or national.

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The higher HP cars no doubt have a harder time going down a bad track than the lower HP cars

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I figure most of what I work on gets down the track pretty well already. A new set of slicks will more than likely solve the problems with the Super Stock car.

The solution is not to accept poor track prep at an event, considering a weekend at an event costs around $1000, or more. The solution is to stop accepting poor track prep, and make it plain that it is not acceptable.

While you are only concerned about consistency and winning races, our friends in other classes are concerned about crashing their race cars and getting injured or killed.

It's a really bad thing when we struggle to get down the track in our Stock Eliminator car, most people say it is one of the best working cars around. The Super Stock car, well, we'll find out about that in a month or so. It's a lot worse when one of my Super Gas customers gets sideways due to bad track prep and ends up looking at the wall, or his competitor, at over 100MPH. That wrecks cars, and worse yet, injures or kills people. We as racers need to stop tolerating that from sanctioning bodies. It's unacceptable.

We pay around $200 per car for a division race, and around $300 for a national event. Between diesel and food, we add another $300 to $500 or so. It is time racers stopped accepting inadequate track prep at events. We're paying for track prep, we have a reasonable expectation of getting good track prep.

You say we should just accept poor track prep, and learn to live with it. Despite paying for track prep. What's next? Should we bring our own timing equipment? Do we need to get together and hire our own EMT and ambulance? I do not charge my customers for something I do not give them. Why should we, and my customers, just accept that a sanctioning body is charging us for something we are not going to get?

When you go to a restaurant, do you just accept poorly prepared food and learn to deal with it? When you go to the theater, do you just accept broken speakers and a blurry picture? If you stay in a hotel, do you accept dirty sheets and a stopped up toilet?

When you go anywhere, and accept less than what you paid for, you're telling the proprietor that it is acceptable to rip you off. When you go back, and accept it again, you're telling them you like getting ripped off. You're making it worse for yourself, and everyone else involved. I don't run my business that way, and I don't expect to be treated that way.