Super Gas speeds
 

Hey Tommy,

How fast does your vega go at 9.90? I've Wanted to ask you at PRI but you must have been standing behind your grandson...lol. Is it a small block?

Really though....we run a 572 in our vette...it goes 167-169 .......if money didn't matter...what would you run......a lot of successful racers...don't have the fastest cars.....

Why is that....

Re: Super Gas speeds
 

I got a question, name me a division champ for the year of 2011, that is not a high mph car? High MPH to me is 155 and above. And that doesn't mean that they win a round at less than 155 on the brakes. Maybe Tommy Phillips might be considered . Sounds to me like you may be trying to size Tommy D. up.

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Rock, my sensors won't let me run over 160 or I'll break out

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Hey Rock I am still running the stock alum.4cyl.that came with the car....I have a305 Chevy and a 307 olds from my sons stocker I'm thinking about putting both of them in the Vega to run with the big guns...I'll see if Chris can show pics...

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Tom, that's impressive. I thought you had put a v-6 in your car, but still has the 4 cyl. Wow. Lol
Chuck

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Lol.....

Tommy Phillips goes 160-165 I think....it's fast but not in the class fastest...

I would like to see what the average is.....I bet it's high 150's....

Re: Super Gas speeds
 

Let's see.....division champs.....
D1. Biondo around 170.....fast
D2. Tatum ( my hillbilly buddy) around 170.....fast
D3. Cook around 170.....fast
D4. Phillips....mid 160's....kinda fast....
D5. Moore.....not sure....somebody help
D6. Dalrymple....not sure ..need help
D7. Torres sr. I think mid 160's....kinda fast....

So Steve maverick .....you are probably close to correct....but I bet any of those 7 have the resources to go faster if they wanted to.....but they don't......why is that....

I wonder if nitro joe...gets the speed on the first time run on an event...lol

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Tatum was around 174 this year
Cook was 173
Torres was high 160's
Chuck

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I think i was in the high 220's all year maybe a new years resolution?

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I though you had slowed down a little from the year before. I guess the reason no one mentioned you is because the question was about the div champs Lol
Chuck

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I thought they got up with you?

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Mickey has always been fast.....lol

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The Dalrymple's have all they need. In SG they're mid/upper 160's and in SC upper 170's. They come with 4-5 cars in a semi, dedicated driver/crew, have all the car/speed they need to be very competitive in any class they run. Always tough.

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Ok, I know you are talking about s/g but what about s/c. The div 3 champ in s/c for the last two years in a row is probably one of the slowest dragsters at the track.... We all know mph has an advantage, but I think Steve has proven that you can compete on a divisional level without mega bucks to work with.... I don't see what the big deal is?

Just another slow s/g car.

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Rock you already know our feelings about big mph.

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From my past experiances in D3 ,after the rain comes [and it will] only the slower cars can usually make it down the track !
I try to balance the speed with being able to make it down a less than perfect track,which we have quite a few, in all the divisions.
I'm at 163 -164 and could run 168 with a setup I hate ,but I'm happy at mid to lo 160's.

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I have not sped our car up since 2007....but its just whatever you like and can afford....I can't afford to speed it up...lol

Certainly Steve Mikus snuck up on a few people early on with his dragster.....but I don't think anybody wants to race him anymore.....He has one of the slowest dragsters in the country....and is generally (almost always) 10 or better....on the tree....

So try that one on with your 185 mph dragster.....He is really tough....and this is now not years back....2 time back to back Div 3 champ and top 10 finisher overall

Anyway....I think if the Biondo's or Tatums had 150 mph cars....they would still win......

Joe Bauman's not a good draw either....

And I think our tracks in Div 3 are pretty good.....I was at Atco last year....and they couldn't fix it?? I think you and I were in the stands together watching the super street cars crash....and crash....and crash....

We struggled in Columbus...but other than that we were ok...we are ready for you to come back Tom......lol

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Kevin Moore is 165+mph.

I would rather drive a high MPH S/ST car than my slow MPH car, but I can't afford it. Heck, Steve D. will be running 155+ this year in S/ST. He'll have almost 30mph on me and I'm sure he'll be holding at least a tenth.

My dads Super Gas car is 153 and easy to dial. Again, he'd like to go faster but he's had some success at that speed and has tons of data so why spend more to have to start over.

My brothers Super Comp car is only 172. We've chosen that speed as our starting point and will go from there.

I think most people would like to go faster but either don't have the money or have tons of data and don't want to start over.

Just my .02 cents.

Brad

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This started out about super gas speeds, and it looks like all the super gas division champs are mid 160's and up. So what about the super street divisional champs and the super comp divisional champs. Are all or most of the champs running the top speeds in their class? I have not seen the Division 3 super comp champ, but the way it sounds he is not one of the top speed cars. Are most of the champs in the super class categories running the top speeds in the class? Looks like to me the top speed is the way to go.

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I won D1 in S/St at around 150+ in 2007, but the two prior years Marty Ganjoin won back to back with a low mph car, Marty is a driver and dialer, tough combo.

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Rock ,you're right about Atco that time .
Never saw anything that bad. ....and I love racing there cause 99.9% of the time you can't find a better track, or owner !!
Everytime I go to D3 it rains ,or the tree is broken!!

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Just ask Joe Eckel or Tom how much he loves racing us....lol! 132 mph and about 20 cars in front of you at the 900 foot mark...lol

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Top speed is definitely the way to go if your budget is unlimited. That doesn't apply to most of us.

You won't be a better racer at faster speeds, but others will make a lot more mistakes - if you both miss the ET setup, you get the last chance to bail out. If you both hold and drive the stripe, you have better visibility (though some people are surprisingly bad at driving from behind).

I can "drive" most races at 10-15 mph slower than the opponent without making lots of mistakes and guessing. Over that it gets real tough to leave enough time to make decisions that matter before the stripe. 130 is not a real bad place to be in Div. 2 S/ST. Most everyone is on your bumper at half track and you just drag them in depending on your strategy. 140 is probably perfect. The 150 cars can be tough but a lot of them take way too often.

So, does this mean the 143 mph Super Gas car I'm building is definitely in the wrong class? Yeah. But it will make S/ST weight.

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There's a bit of a problem in this discussion with cause/effect. If the division champs all run top speeds is it safe to assume that running top speeds is a prerequisite to winning? Or is it possible that people who win find themselves getting better and better, getting more and more involved in racing, and deciding to make a bigger economic commitment -- because they love it enough to devote their money to it (and because going fast is fun)?

I think most people agree that money is not the key prerequisite to winning, several other things are also important: desire, skill, practice are among them. Of course you can't win without any money, and money can buy you nice parts. But money doesn't win championships. How many people do you know who throw money at this sport for a year or two and just flail -- eventually throwing in the towel?

Yes, I think anyone with all the money in the world would build a faster car. There is some advantage to being a faster car in a Super class. But do you have to build a rocket ship to win? I don't think so.

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"Or is it possible that people who win find themselves getting better and better, getting more and more involved in racing, and deciding to make a bigger economic commitment -- because they love it enough to devote their money to it (and because going fast is fun)?"

This works for me!!

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ehh...go back to high gear stops only. Take the mph out of it. Let everyone trip the 60' clocks w/ the rear wheels like it used to be back in the day. The class numbers will increase and everyone will have way more fun!

Oh, while your at it...eliminate 50% of sfi BS. 10 yr certs on ribbon window nets and 5 yr certs on seat belts are fine. Just ask any manufacturer "off the record" and they will tell you some of the certs are overkill.:eek:

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I agree with the certs they suck......but the rules are fine.....if you want to wheelie over the 60 clocks.....have at it.....I don't believe it would affect car count at all.....

The guys that win would still win in slow cars.....They have mostly fast cars.....and for most people that is an advantage.....not all....

we do it because we can....

the car is more fun to drive also.....

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Personally, I wanted a car that would give me options when I was deciding in 06. Would like to run TS and did for a season in IHRA but don't have the funds to keep up so I run SG/SR.

Hell, I need to be fast cause I don't have the vision that other door cars or "the almighty" roadsters do (can see cracks in pavement as they're going down track...to quote "the Rock" ).

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Now I feel your pain. We have a new Pro Mod Hairy bodied ,Same as yours, Camaro and I have wondered how you see the other car. Hell you have to be the fast car. My son drives the PM but I sat in it and you can only see a small patch in front of you. That car would make a badass roadster. Cut the top off and be "Almighty"

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Did I say that....lol

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You guys don't know what bad visibility is unless you sat inside my Willys!
7"x 39" windshield ,and sitting back behind the b pilar with no quarter window to look out of!
When I built it in the mid '80s it was great cause I was one of the faster cars out there @154-155mph,but when everyone caught up the winning stopped!
Trying to find those 170 mph cars with no roof was impossible while looking thru a "mail slot" !!
Maby I'll bring it back out as a 150 mph Super Street car when I'm done making it "street legal"

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Tom, you might as well run super street. Seems like everyone is in the 140-150 range
That "entry level" went to hell in a hand basket.

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Entry level class LOL dave connelly entered last year and won DIV2

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I don't know how you can say that Rock. Of two cars setup with a starting line throttle stop configuration, sure the faster one is going to be more fun to drive. But, what would be more fun to drive, your car FLAT OUT at 155 mph, or on the stop like it is now but at 165 mph?

My car is faster now on the stop than it used to be flat out, but it was WAY more fun to drive when I was running 9.75 @ 138 mph flat out. What wasn't fun was losing all the time because it wasn't as consistent and because I couldn't see all the 155 mph S/G cars chasing me down. Thank God Billy Leber convinced me to move to S/St.

I've been telling myself recently that I wouldn't go back to S/G until the car could run AT LEAST 155 mph on the stop. This Division Champ data just confirms that, and even makes me think I shouldn't go back until I hit 160 mph.

Which is crazy...spending ALL that money to build a car that will run in the mid to low 8's just to make it boring by putting more time in the throttle stop to run 9.90's. Such a shame...

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I have a hard time imagining what it would be like in a fast car with a four second bog after you take off at full power. Any body got any in car videos of this. I would like to see it. My feeling right now is no rules in S/G or S/C. Do anything you want, no weight limit, use of traction control devices, use of matty boxes, have the tach wire going to the throttle control box. Open it up. And only one light at the starting line, the stage bulb, and the green. No prestage, and no ambers. Lets have some fun
Steve Willie Williams S/G 351N:D

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Steve......you gotta lay off the egg nogg.....lol

And Jason....our vette runs pretty good on the stop.....and when it comes off...it goes pretty good...I have to pay attention....

Without the stop....it would wheelie way too hard.....as the motor is back and high....even though it's slower than our super stocker....it's way more violent....if I can get Kenny to put up a couple of my videos....you can tell the vette is violent as my head bounces around....lol...I'm on an IPad now and can't....till Monday...

Rock

Re: Super Gas speeds
 

Like I said, what would be more fun to drive, the car not on the stop, or on it?!?

Welcome to racing a Corvette. Try a 3' wheelstand in a 99" wheelbase with a bunch of bump-steer. And if you REALLY want violent, put a 5-speed in it with a 3.27 first gear and 6.50 rear gears, mat the throttle, and let out the clutch. THAT'S violent...and fun (and expensive, and not conducive to winning unfortunately, but the fans love it!)

If I didn't like winning, had a slightly larger budget, and had balls of Tungsten like my old man, that 5-speed would be going back in the car in a heartbeat.

And no videos are necessary unless you really feel the need. I've seen plenty of runs by high-powered S/G Corvette roadsters. I know they like to get up on the wheelie bar quickly, and then smash back down to earth when the stop comes on (I'm actually surprised you guys don't break more front suspension components). I also know you have to pay attention when the stop shuts off, but you also have 3+ seconds on every pass where you could do some reading, take a nap, or make a bologna sandwich (as do I). ZZZZzzzzzzz.....

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I think that in order to run Sg, you should have to be able to run 165 plus.That way, even though every one may have 4 seconds of stop in their car, they will be side by side all the way down the track. You wont have one car 150 feet in front of the other one and all the fans in the stands wont be wondering what happened and how did that car that was way behind catch up. It will make driving the finish line a whole lot easier as well. There wont be that 30 mph differance like there is now. I'm getting old and I just can't seem to judge the cars that are running 140 and I run 170. I think that by changing the rule it will help me out alot. LOL
Chuck

Re: Super Gas speeds
 

When I grow up I wanna Car as fast as you Guy's !

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Chuck.....an extra 100 cubes wouldn't hurt....lol that aero beretta would fly....but we will never grow up...

and Jason.....I have to have time to look into the crowd in the beginning of the run....lol

so a couple of seconds on the stop is perfect....