National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

As Jeff Colvert pointed out at the end of his post RE: the national records he has set, the A.H.F.S is a big deterrent to setting new records because of the possibility of running afoulf of that system, if you run really quick.

How are people supposed to set new national records with such a self-defeating system?

Wouldn't it make more sense to disable the A.H.F.S. just during record runs?

I remember when being a national record holder was a really BIG DEAL, and was even worth some advertising dollars; cars had it emblazioned on the top... proudly!

I'd like to see it mean something that significant, again.

Has anybody ever approached NHRA about this?

Makes all kinds of sense, to me...

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Bill, NHRA stopped awarding points for records, so my guess is they would just as soon not screw with tear downs. The bracket race contingent just bad mouths you for having ego issues if your that fast with a legit car anyway.

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

National Record Holders got free entry at my local track in the '60s.

Other than that it was just something to shoot for and be proud of.
Getting paper T's and Q's was right up there with setting records.....You have to be old to know what they were....LOL

My race partner and I tried very hard to set a record and did. We also did get a T from Indy....and left it on the car untill the weather faded it out...

We also were very close to setting the record with out first car a '57 sedan delivery once.

Was not an easy task for two young guys with mostly just a desire to do it...

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

The solution is to make records pay. Currently, setting a record really only pays the engine builder, since you get no points and no money. The engine builder looks good, and may get some new business, but the racer, unless he is also the engine builder, only gets the extra work and expense of a teardown, and his name in the Dragster for a while.

Records should pay points, and maybe at least $200 or so. You should not, however, get points and money for resetting your own record. It would help the AHFS work better. Just like paying points and money for class and qualifying.

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Right now with the index is three tenths lower, and the auto hit is 1.20 under in all that is 1.50 under the old index. Now if you drove smart not hitting the 1.00 under to have it looked at and save it for say a shot at the record one time late in the year you would not get your combo hit. Even at .999 under would be almost1.30 under the old indexs.
Tom

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

The biggest problem with the A.H.F.S. is that it is to easy to get around. If you drive smart and don't care about things like records you can run a bogus car and be fast and never have to prove that the combo is legal. It is getting where NHRA doesn't even have the slips at National events. So unless you want to do something dumb like set the record and have NHRA look at all your stuff you can run almost anything bogus you want to. What would make A.H.F.S. work would be to have a tear down, pass, and be sealed with a date, If you take it apart after it is sealed it has to be checked again .Also if the you go fast enough to get the the combo horsepower it needs to be torn down and certified legal before they add horsepower. Do it at the division races of a random number of cars whether they were fast or not and you would have been torn down before you can run National events. And do it on the day before the race. Seems like a good idea to me.

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Bill, You can set the record at opens and not hit the trigger unless you go 1.20 under, and you can set record`s at points meet and not hit the trigger, only your fastest run in qualifying counts one time on hitting the trigger, you can run two times under 1 second and it only counts as one hit on the trigger. you need to hit trigger twice before you get looked at, unless you go 1.20 under. Tom

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Tom,

Thanks for that explanation.

It's... complicated.

Sounds liike you need to have access to a Philadelphia lawyer to ensure that you're not going to "trigger" something you really don't want to happen.

To GREATLY simplify, I think NHRA just needs to disable the monitoring of national record runs (ONLY,) as regards the A.H.F.S.

What could be easier?

The status of record holders is in need of an overhaul. Stock and Super Stock are performance-based classes and holding a national record in any of their classes should be elevated to a status commensurate with the accomplishment.

It's not, as things stand. I think the A.H.F.S. situation may be part of the reason.

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

i might have tried to set the u/sa record at indy open but ive only got a .02 window before auto trigger and shazaam im a t/sa car forever...too much risk for all that REWARD !

captain jack

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Jack, wasn't that Kingswood a T/SA when Quinn had it, set the record with it I believe. That is its natural class is it not.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA weighted subject

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Absolutely Right.

Records really mean very little now, except to the owner's ego, and possibly the engine builders business.

Would we have set the record somewhere lower than we did, if we weren't afraid of getting more horsepower? You bet, and I think many others close to the edge in their class certainly feel the same way.

Suspend the AHFS for records. Then you will see some real impressive records on the books.
Wouldn't it be nice is the Class Performers Award including points for a record? Or if the NHRA worked with some sponsors to create a payment for records. Maybe it is $50 or $100 each from each sponsor, so at least it would buy you a new gasket set after you tear down.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

I agree with everything said...but playing the devil's advocate....what would people say when a person runs -.6 to -.9 in heads up runs to win every time...but has the record at -1.80?
I can just imagine the screaming about "playing the system".

Are you going to run your -.85 car against a car that has a record of -1.80? Can you cut THAT much better of a light and make him run it out the door enough to get him HP?
And even if he does take a hit to get the win, now he can only set the record at -1.50.....


Just sayin'....

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

The biggest deal why records are not set is the time 3-4 hours on a tear down and the cost of the gaskets unless you are driven by your ego why deal with it. And why tear down a good running motor

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Ill problably get flamed for this idea. If you have a circled R on the window and set the record and pass teardown then the runs can NOT be applied towards AHFS. But if you try for the record and dont make it then your ET is applied towards AHFS. So if you think you have the stones or like to gamble to set the record then go for it. If you go more then 1.20 or faster for automatic Tuesday HP increase and set the record OR go 1.00 under to be looked at and set the record then hands off. If you dont for whatever reason ( no excuses) set the record then the run or runs count towards AHFS. Sounded good in my head anyway. Is the risk for reward worth it? Now just to get some money for the effort would be great.
Jeff

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Great idea Jeff! That would keep racers from hiding behind the circled R in the window.
I'm still not sure what to think about record runs not counting to ASHFS. I wouldn't want to see somebody set a record @ 10.00 and then watch them dial 10.50 for the rest of the weekend.

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Suggested this to Mike Baker at IHRA

Not enough Records are being set at an IHRA Meet.
More Records set will add more credability and competition to IHRA.

Create a Mobile Inspection Center -
IHRA sends a designated inpector.
Which may include other racers..

Inspectors go to a designated location.
Such as a Dealership, Local Airport, Large Garage.
Preferably Covered in the even of rain.

Date Set and Racers Invited.

Bring Engine or Whole Car.
Get inspected, engine or car that pass get a Certified Seal of Inspection.
Then the engine is sealed.

Cars wanting to set records at a Meet will only need normal pre-race inpection.
Then weighed after a run.

If there are any discrepencies they have to get corrected.
If the infraction can be corrected fairly quickly.
The part gets reinspected and passed if correct.
Such as a 1 Thousands-off Stock Mustang Valve.

Spending several hours on a car on a non race day will make racing more fun.

No more driving hours to a race to get busted for a minor infraction.

Catch them early and no worry !

Feedback ??

Dan

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

If you want to increase car counts at opens how about during qualifying and record runs no ahfs. Then during eliminations count the runs. This would give a lot of guys who like to go fast a chance to show what they have. And if there is a record that you think you can set but it's to close to getting hp. You can step on it and give it a try. Barry

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

IHRA already does the "inspect and seal" routine on non-race days, typically on the Friday of a Sat-Sun event. Sealed motors are accepted through the end of the racing season. The following year you must go through the process again.

RE: AHFS. The whole point of the AHFS is an attempt to apply realistic factors to engines. If you negate the AHFS at any time, then there is no system. The fact that people slow their cars down to avoid getting HP means exactly what that implies: the engine is not factored properly. As I've said for many years, take the incremental data that's been collected for years and factor ALL combinations once right now, get everybody in the proper classes, and then you can virtually do away with the AHFS, and y'all can go let it all hang out. (until the next rule enhancement or round of superceded parts)

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

. Hey Jeff, some of this happens and not necessarily due to the AHFS. A good example of this is Joe Sorensen and his B/SA Camaro yesterday at LODS at Firebird. First let me say that IMO, Joe is a great guy and a very good racer. Anyway, in rd 2, joe dialed a 10.48 and won. In round 3, he was heads up against Steve Wann. Joe ran 10.09 and won by a close margin. 4th round Joe dials 10.48 again. So the point is, Joe could run 10.09, on kill, but choses to run the car 4 tenths slower in eliminations. Is it because of AHFS or the cost of running the car on "kill" all the time???? So much of it has to do with the cost of racing now. For me, I could not keep racing if I ran my engine on kill and trashed an engine or two a year. so, what may appear to be an AHFS issue on the surface, may not be that at all.

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.
 

Never mind. Computer problem.

Re: National Records vs. the A.H.F.S.