possible found 65 afx car
 

this is a good one for moose and paul, i had i friend call me today to tell me he bought a 55 thunderbird from a lady in putnam county she has 12 more cars some chevrolets and some mopars , the one he called me about is a white 65 belvedere awb car and it had the number "666" on the side or some where on the car. anyone remember any 65 a990's or awb's with some reference to the # he has told me about? this womans husband was a collector and all of these cars are in need of restoration, hopefully in the next few days i can get to her house to see the cars myself.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Some of Jenkins early Mopars had 666 on the rear quarters.
His early Camaro's were 777.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

The only car from that era I remember with the number 666 on it is Bill Jenkins' A/S 1966 Chevy II.

http://www.colesy-juniorstockforum.c...le.php?id=7174

M68

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Seek and ye shall find...

http://www.colesy-juniorstockforum.c...e.php?id=10062

http://www.colesy-juniorstockforum.c...e.php?id=10288

http://www.colesy-juniorstockforum.c...e.php?id=10224

M68

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

I'm not an expert source, but didnt Bill Jenkins "Black Arrow have that number? It was a white 65 Plymouth http://www.google.com/imgres?q=black...:429,r:10,s:15

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

And on one, a combination of both. :)

http://www.colesy-juniorstockforum.c...le.php?id=7748

M68

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

i was always under the assumption that the jenkins/burgess car after it was changed to an awb car was so bad that it needed to be re bodied, i spoke with someone this past year at carlisle that said he owns the rebodied car , could this be the original car? it is in pawling not to far from where burgess lived. my friend said it had a 666 on the side of the car. im not going to sleep for days now untill i see it for my self.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

http://www.zorly.com/images_camaro/g...ock%20Race.jpg

Here ya are. 777

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Never mind with Grumpys Camaro, look who is behind him...that's Harry Holton's L023 '68 Hemi Dart called 'Hemi Countdown'...

As far as the '65 A990 that was converted into A/FX goes I'm not even going to touch this one without seeing some proof like some detailed photo's of it...because from what I've heard the car was scrapped long ago.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/a...4&d=1239056160

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

sounds like the 63 Z-11 car I bought a few years ago from a "friend". He is not out of Prison yet for taking the money without HAVING a car.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Would love to see some pics of the reported car.

Likely a well intended clone, but what if.........?

http://images22.fotki.com/v838/photo...JENKINS-vi.jpg

Found this from HRM "Match Bash" article.


http://image.hotrod.com/f/projectbui...+side_view.jpg

http://images24.fotki.com/v825/photo...DNClift-vi.jpg

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

On a side note, anyone know anything about a 64 Dodge A/FX car called Lucifer? Ran out of Ohio.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Better go get her Jimi. probably the black arrow I'll bet.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

I guess some body parts such as fenders or maybe some glass might have been saved over the years but as far as the original Black Arrow '65 A990 it is history...notice the new # on the car when Doc Burgess had it.

http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/45...600x600Q85.jpg

http://images15.fotki.com/v588/photo...ymouth2-vi.jpg

http://images22.fotki.com/v836/photo...ymouth4-vi.jpg

http://images15.fotki.com/v588/photo...ymouth5-vi.jpg

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Self deleted.

My wife wishes I would do that for real!!!!!

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

:):):) Hey Jimi...you "know" the advertising about calling your doctor...if you have a "issue" after 4 hours:D...keep your cell phone handy...the "Black Arrow" was purchased by the Smrtic family from Doc...re-named and raced as "Storm King"...all...is very well documented on the www.doverdragstrip.com website...(Doc's and their (Smrtics') home track...there are no people on the planet more honest than Bill & Gary Smrtic...they easily could have re-created this car...many times for personal ($$$) gain...their integrity...just wouldn't allow it 'eh...you can contact Bill via e-mail...wssmrtic@yahoo.com...for any question (s) you might have...I hope indeed that is a good hemi car (you've been contacted about)...and you can make lots of $$$...but the original "Black Arrow"...it ain't "hoss":D....Dave Parent of Mahopac (Putnam County) had a original 65 hemi car...which he purchased brand new from Coppola Motors of Fairfield,CT...last I "knew" he still had car (5-6 years ago)...it was beige...and he still was living... he also had a good collection of cars...but his car...had absolutely no race "history" at all...never saw dragstrip...best of luck...hope it all "works"....:):):)Drake Viscome

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Here's a nice clone of the original '65 Black Arrow A990 Plymouth...

http://moparmax.com/events/2008/iii_...show/york6.jpg

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

No one ever expected these cars to live forever. Nothing wrong with a period correct clone AS LONG AS IT IS DISCLOSED as a clone.
Reproducing one would be a major and expensive undertaking.
Restoring or cloning,.
if you're going to do it, do it correctly.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

:):):) Hey Guys...I have no ax to grind about period cars...whether they be original or "clone"...do have slight anal "twitch"/not much/any patience...with regard to phony "story-telling"/fabricating/creating...about them though ( yeah...I know there are 8 million stories...in the "Naked City") :D...U...get the "idea"...also don't have much/any sympathy...for non-"real" racer guys (just "cats" with $$$)...who just have the "means" to buy/own without the true "passion"...as I see it...for these type cars /period (that they well deserve)...the "good news" for me...is...I been most fortunate to have owned/raced a bunch...with a "pile" of 'em...and have...the means..if I chose to exercise them...to currently purchase such...for me...it's kinda' like a old girlfriend...think/ be grateful of the good times gone by (i.e. hula-hoop...poodle skirt)...choose to live... keep moving forward...'eh :):):) Drake

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

No issues here.
I remember drooling around them as a teenager.
Love this forum because it allows your memories to verify the dreams I had as a kid.
:cool:
As close as I ever got to a real one (I was 15) was a 64 Dodge 330 2dr sedan with a 318 and push buttons.
Was going to paint it orange and mount a set of keystones and the proper stance.
But....could not come up with the purchase price and my dad would not loan me the difference.
Of the "wish I still could" cars, it's at the top.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...pVPunmXl5ZybFX

.....just add Keystones. And me.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Drakester is right on the money....BLACK ARROW INFO??? we have probably THE MOST History documentation on the car with the biggest collection of photos. All from The Smrtics AND Doc himself....along with archived photos never seen in 35 years from Doc's Old partners Son (Carl Spiedel) the original is GONE ...a Street Clone was built for Doc by the Smrtics And we know where it is. Guy working on it wants to remain 'low-key' til he Debuts it.It does have some original sheet metal ...the pictured 'Clone" back a few posts is close but ....no cigar.... I have some issues with it as far as looking correct. IT WAS ALWAYS owned By Doc...this guy needs to do some homework.I lettered the Altered wheelbase version in Doc's basement while Freddy Murphy(Crew Cheif) adjusted the valves on the Injected hemi.Knew Doc real Good as I was also the annoucer at Dover.
See the Forum at www.doverdragstrip.com and use the search feature ...put in Burgess or BlackArrow and be prepared to spend some time...get a bag of chips. Oh...and for some more fun put in Carmel Ford or Viscome ....All of Drakes Stuff there Too!

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Hey Dino,
So which parts were saved off of the original '65 Black Arrow A990 Belvedere when it was re-named and raced as the 'Storm King'...can you post any last known old shots of the car...would like to see exactly what it looked like before it was scrapped.

.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Too Much Info to Post Here ...Like I said ...Go to Dover Forum...Put "Black Arrow" In Search And Look Out !

try this first :
http://www.doverdragstrip.com/phpBB3...it=black+arrow

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Paul C talked about this '65 A990 car and pretty much covered it in another thread posted on here...

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

http://www.doverdragstrip.com/phpBB3...ile.php?id=631

http://www.doverdragstrip.com/phpBB3...le.php?id=2095

http://www.doverdragstrip.com/phpBB3...le.php?id=2096

http://www.doverdragstrip.com/phpBB3...le.php?id=9188

http://www.doverdragstrip.com/phpBB3...le.php?id=2783

http://www.doverdragstrip.com/phpBB3...le.php?id=2097

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Paul C's timeline is about as accurate as it needs to get.
I'm amazed how pictures get around, those small snapshots of us picking up the 'Arrow in late '67, flat towing it home on its race slicks behind my Mom's '67 440 GTX, our workhorse/towcar/Sunday go to meetin' car for years and years.
I'm the guy standing next to our max wedge, '64 Dodge, Storm King 1.
My brother Bill with Doc the day we picked it up, and next to the '65 Hilborn'd hemi AWB car (the former Black Arrow). My brother is the second and last documented owner of the car.
The car's hulk was taken to Consolodated Metalworks in Newburgh, N.Y., and crushed.
As Dino has stated here, the car closest to the original Black Arrow is known, who owns it, what the plans are, etc, etc. If there's interest, I can give a background story on that car.
The car "sorta" painted like the Black Arrow I guess I'd have to call a "tribute" car, as a clone would be virtually indistinguishable from the original, and that car isn't even close other than the color and the way the name is done.
The dover site, as Dino said, is a fabulous place to see so many never before seen pictures of many famous cars from the era. The membership cost for that premium portion of the site is very well worth it, and you get a tee shirt and other goodies as well, plus its a lifetime membership. I've got no dog in the hunt with that site, so this is an unsolicited endorsement...

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Storm King, welcome to the forums...so can you tell us what parts you saved off of the original '65 A990 Belvedere before it met it's fate...

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Well, the engine, trans and rear, of course. Automatic 990 cars had 8.75 Mopar rears in them, as did this one. The trans was a Fairbanks unit so its likely it wasn't the same exact unit that came in the car, but an exchanged one. The engine was a Bill Stiles engine, and a great one at that. We put a rod through the block on that on in '68 at Connecticutt Dragway when we inadvertently mis-adjusted the swinging oil pickup while checking the bearings between weekends. So Jon Lundberg, the "Voice of Drag Racing", and a hero to this kid, made some call for us and arranged for us to get a new Ramchargers engine from them in very short order. You have to understand, the "Arrow" was butchered into a money making match racer, like so many of those cars were. They were beautifully built from the factory back then, but racers bought them to win races. Some guys kept racing in S/S, some went for the big bucks lure of match racing. We preferred S/S, so we bought a wrecked '64 Plymouth from a junk yard in Kingston N.Y., and spent the winter of '68 repairing, modifying, and converting it into a 990 car. While we got all of the surviving factory 990 parts from the 'Arrow when we bought it, there wasn't much left of those accessories. I know there's a bit of a story about the acid dipped fenders and doors, which we did get, but we sold some of them to a guy out west. I'll have to ask Bill where they went again. The car had fiberglass doors, fenders, hood and deck on it when we bought it, and all plexi windows., stripped interior, rear bumper cut in half for the parachute (not mounted up high like one of the pictures here). The grill was butchered up with a moon tank, and it also had a fiberglass front bumper. We never got the lightweight front bumper with the car. The rear wheelbase was literally altered by a local Blacksmith in either Wingdale or Pawling N.Y., someone Doc knew from his verternary practice. It was crude, crude, crude! However, with the wheels moved all the way forward, the car had a 100" wheelbase, and ran straight as a sting! When we put the mechanicals into the "clone", if you will, the hulk was a sad sight indeed. So you have to put yourself back into those days...just like the first thing we did with our max wedge was take the cast iron exhaust manifolds off and scrap them.Today, a replicated set runs about $1,200.00, or 1/3 the cost of a new max wedge when we bought it new! These cars were race cars, not collector items. When a race car was used up, it was discarded. We sold the 'Arrow hulk to a kid from Cornwall, N.Y., who's mother got tired of seeing it in her backyard and made him get rid of it. My brother's partner in his Pro Stock Duster saw the hulk at Consolodated Matal Works in Newburgh, and they had a policy that once something rolled over their scales, it didn't leave. I know guys today get all amped up about stuff like this, but the reality is that its this type of story that adds value to the cars that did survive. I just saw Hank Taylor's '64 wedge and '65 hemi cars at the HRR here in Bowling Green this past year. Imagine, an all original 990 car with less than 2,000 mile on it ( I think the number is under 1,400!) that has never been cut, anywhere! So yeah, its a shame, but life goes on...

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Thank you. Great, first hand history lesson.
And, a reminder that these and many others were nothing but a product of their time.
Collectible only many years later when we all start to look back.

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

I just want to add one thing here too, that being Doc Burgess was and still is a great guy. Quiet, but with a wry sense of humor. He and wife Helen were family friends back in the day. We met him at Dover in '64 when we were running our '64 max wedge S/S and he was running a '64 Plymouth street wedge in either A or B stock, I can't recall exactly.
He told us at the end of the season that he was "coming after us", we had no idea what he was about to do. He bought the "Arrow from none other than Bud Faubel of "Honker" fame, and had it delivered straight to Jenkins shop. I could tell a bunch more here. Everyone knows Jenkins won the Winternationals in Pomona with the car. You know how Doc found out? By reading about it in the drag racing newspapers...

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

Storm King, thanks for the additional info...

Hey Jimi, how did you make out on that AWB car you were talking about earlier?

Re: possible found 65 afx car
 

the people who have the car are very particular about who comes to there house because of the cars they own (six packs ,corvettes,etc.), my friend who told me about the car finally met her husband last week when he went to get a pick up (1976 ford 100 with 50k on it)he bought from them, the husband said its nothing special, was a project him and his brother were doing to go nostalgia racing with,the brother died and the car has been sitting along time. he claims that he has some original a990 parts for the project? and at this time does not want to sell the car, i just want to see it!!!!!!!!that is all i have gotten so far, at least the people in the know came on here to set things straight! i just cant understand what the benefit was to the wife for telling my friend that the car belonged to a famous racer and its # was 666. it was not like my friend waited 6 months to tell me either he called me as he was leaving the driveway!!!! as soon as i get the ability to go meet these people i will take some pictures and details on what these people have and what is for sale.