55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I usually split a drum of fuel with a friend, but this year, we both plan on getting our own drums.
He has an expensive transfer pump. A couple other friends recommended a plastic red/clear inexpensive pump that has a palm sized "bellows" that they say works fine.
Example
What do you use?

Thanks
Clark

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I have bought fuel by the drum for years. Gas and methanol.

I use the hand pump your friend described. They sell for less than $20 and work fine. When the drum is near full....it will syphon and you don't have to pump it.....Takes maybe 5 minutes to fill a 5 gallon jug.

When you race a methanol powered dragster with fuel injection....you burn a lot of fuel and buying it by the drum saves a lot of $$$

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Thanks Rich. We also run methanol, but our juniors only use about a gallon each per weekend, so I dont keep more than 10 gallons on hand.
We used to have a circle track parts house in town, but it closed. Looks like Speedway in Lincoln has them for $15. My VP guy says he'll sell me one for $15.
No smoking in my garage...LOL.

I just wanted to confirm they arent junk.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

The plastic red/white pump sounds like this one, which is what I've been using for years. One was getting old so I bought a spare over a year ago, but the old one is still pumping. Good deal if available for $15.00 locally.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAF-ALL40114/

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

For a fast and efficient method get a ball valve with pipe threads and install galvanized pipe on one side and hose in the other. Install in small hole of drum and a tire valve stem in large bung and pressurize with air. This will transfer fuel very quickly and no mess.

Pete

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Be very afraid of this method.
You are building a bomb with this.
Air and gas in a barrel is not safe plus a barrel is not rated as a pressure vessel.
If you are going to do this at all use nitrogen to pressure a gas filled vessel.
Be very afraid on this method as noted as gas and air/oxygen do not mix safely in a closed vessel.
My 2 Cents
Rick Cates

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Do you have any fuel barrels that don't have any air in them? Unless a fuel barrel is completely filled with fuel then they are all potential bombs. As is your fuel can, fuel cell, fuel tank, etc...

I read it as the air is pushing out the fuel out the hose, not building a bomb.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

When I worked at the shipyards I saw a crane operator almost take head off with the end of a 55-gallon drum...............

He laid the drum on its side attached a transfer hose to the lower bung and an air hose to the upper bung to transfer diesel fuel into the crane.....

He turned on the air and it blew off the end of the drum killing him instantly and blowing 55 gallons of diesel fuel in all directions......

BAD IDEA........

Save your life and buy a $20 plastic pump from Graingers

Bob

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I use the pressure technique now and than to push fuel out of a gas tank on a machine I am working on. Just did it yesterday. I use an air hose and a rag in the filler neck. The goal is to use very low pressure....you need very little to get fuel to come out. I do this to sample the fuel looking for water or see what the fuel is like. I have electric pumps I can use as well but use the pressure method sometimes.

It is dangerous as you are creating gas vapors and could easily ignite.

I work on all kinds of various machines.....welders, generators.....gas, diesel. Often have things like water in fuel.....old fuel....wrong fuel......It's a real pain to deal with safely.......So far I haven't blown my self up but I sure have been close a few times....LOL

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

There is very little air/oxygen in the barrel as you empty them.
It is made up for the most part by fumes from the gas itself which vaporizes as you give it space in the barrel.
I worked in the oil and gas industry for 40 plus years and I can assure you if you use air to pressurize a barrel at some point it will explode. You may get away with it for years but at some point it will possibly end your life or leave you with a very bad injury of some type.
Trust me on this one a partially full barrel of gas is a very dangerous thing. It is much safer as a full or completely empty with the bungs out of it and vented and NOT pressurized.

I witnessed my step father loose a leg to a 55 gal barrel using it empty for a ladder/platform to stand on. It was a hot day and built pressure inside and exploded with him on top. It blew the top out of the barrel and severed his leg just below the knee.

Used barrels of any type can be very dangerous if not handled correctly and pressurizing them is improper use.

Like Bob said buy a pump. It could save your life or at least not injure you.

My Experience Here
Rick Cates

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I think you are reading it wrong as far as pressurizing goes. I am reading it as adding slightly more pressure than the ambient air pressure which would flow the fuel from one barrel to another. It takes less pressure to move the fuel than what is within the barrel when they "pop" with temperature changes.

It is exactly the inverse of siphoning where you are pulling a vacuum. In both instances you are adding air/oxygen to the original barrel. And you are adding air/oxygen when using a transfer pump.

Even the fuel tank in your car/truck has an air vent that draws air/oxygen into it as the fuel pump removes it during consumption. I think you and Bob are referring to situations that truly pressurize the barrels way beyond what was suggested. YMMV.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

No, I understand exactly what you are doing. You are using low pressure to push the fuel out using the same principle as a hyd. jack uses to raise a car.
The issue is adding air/oxygen to the vessel/barrel.
Gasoline has a vapor pressure as all liquids do and will evaporate when it is in an open container. That is the reason for the bungs to be in the barrel when partially full and keep it from going into a vapor. Those vapors fill the void as gasoline is removed.
It is true some air comes in but in very small amounts and air contains only about 19% oxygen. Oxygen is the problem. Much much less than putting an air hose to the barrel. That air amount is what causes the problem and the less liquid in the barrel the greater the danger as that allows more air which in turn is more oxygen.

Like I stated I worked in the oil and gas industry for 40 plus years before retirement and tested and disposed of many barrels over the years. We always used an explosive meter to test the barrels before doing anything with them.
Trust me on this pressurizing a barrel is a bad idea as it is not a pressure vessel and using air instead of an inert gas like nitrogen is a really bad idea.
I do not want to see anyone injured and pressurizing a barrel with air will cause someone to be injured at some point. Maybe not the first or tenth time but at some point it will happen.
Buy a pump and handle gasoline with care as it can be dangerous if not handled properly.
We all pump gas into our tanks daily and most of us do not realize really how dangerous it really is.

I am old and this is my experience.
Rick Cates

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

The VP Truck sells those pumps at all events, Pumps, jugs, barrel wrenches, funnels, caps with filler hoses (those are the best) spare caps & vent caps.

PLUS free "fuel" calendars!

Remember when using those pumps once you get it flowing, you can stop pumping and use the vent to continue the siphon transfer, It takes no time to empty out a drum.
I've seen racers buy drums of methanol at the track and pump it into jugs to save the additional drum charge!

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I bought mine for about $15 at my local Farmer's supply store. It's all plastic, and had been pumping race fuel for the last 15 years. It is a litle slow, though.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Grainger has a big selection of transfer pumps .Most auto parts stores have the plastic pumps as well . Keep in mind that the pumps for alcohol get a little tricky . Ethanol may damage certain pumps , so will methanol .So be sure you get the correct pump for the fuel you're working with .
Something as simple as laying the drum on it's side and using a petroleum compatible spigot has worked for many racers over the years , but should the spigot start leaking you'll have a huge mess to clean up . And a serious fire potential .
NEVER pressurize a fuel drum or can to get the fuel out . There are easier and much safer methods .

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Just bought one of the plastic pumps today at the local circle track parts house. $17.00


Sean

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Lets do a little Middle School math................

55 gallon drum has a diameter of 22"

Area of a circle (end of drum) = 2Pi x R squared

Area = 760 square inches

760 square inches X 25psi = 19,006 pounds of force against the barrel end...

You might want to rethink your position on the safety of low air pressure in a non-pressure vessel.....

Bob

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

You might want to reread what I said. It is in your quote. I never said to pressurize it to 25 psi. You did.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I did it that way for years. Used a paint gun regulator. Doesn't take 5 psi to push it out. 2 or 3 will do it.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I use one of these........... http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CIoBEPMCMAE
Not the fastest but gets the job done.....
Like to put on my "gas station attendant" hat when I am pumping...

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Interesting stuff here. I also am using the plastic pump and although I was leery at first, the thing works like a charm. I am concerned about vapors building up in the drum as the weather gets hotter. I have been going out and opening the cap on the drum to release the pressure on a regular basis.
I keep the pump hanging an only put it in the drum when I need fuel. Am I still OK here?
Thoughts?

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Say a prayer for me......

I cut the tops off metal drums with a plasma cutter on a regular basis. Been doing this for years.
Most of the drums contained waste oil and other fluids....anti freeze, water.
I use them to put crushed oil filters in and than put the drums in a metal scrap dumpster.
I always remove the bungs before I cut the tops and check what was in them before firing up the plasma torch.....

A few pounds of pressure in an open tank is not going to blow up unless you add a spark....

Gasoline is dangerous as a vapor for sure and needs to be treated with some respect....

If you work on cars/machines your entire life you always know of someone who did something stupid and started a fire or worse.

I worked as a line mechanic for some time in a dealership.
The guy working next to me was so dangerous, I demanded he get moved away from me.
He was changing the fuel gauge sender in a full tank of a Jeep Wagoneer. He had fuel below him in a coolant catch pan.....He was working with a drop light and it dropped to the ground near the pan.......I yelled at him to get away from under there. He looked at me with a dumb look and said why as he bent down to pick up the drop light.....Nothing happened.....I left the area till he was done....
2 friends were working on a car in a garage that was part of a bigger group of garages and there was a bar/building in front. They had a fuel line off in the rear of the car....gas was leaking on the floor.... a drop light hit the floor, started a fire and burned down everything.....the garages and the bar.building.

Gas in the open or in a pan or on the floor......and a drop light is plenty dangerous....

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

When you open the drum and release the pressure your in more danger of blowing up than if you just leave it alone.....
Your releasing vapors that can easily ignite from just static.......If it did ignite it would likey ignite the entire container.
These containers expand and contract with the temp. change....
Leave it alone and keep it out of the sun or away from a heat source.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

The pressure build up in the drum is caused by big swings in temperature . The very last thing you ever want to do is let that pressure out of the drum . First , because of the explosion hazard . Second , because the vapors you're releasing are the light ends and those have a big effect on how well your race fuel performs . Keep any container of race gas in a cool , shaded area that sees as little temperature swing as possible . Inside your shop is good , inside the race trailer is bad . The temps in a closed race trailer are very high and then cool off at night .
You're correct about the pump , only install it in the drum when you need fuel , then take it out and re-seal the container tightly .

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Good info
Makes sense
Thanks,

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Icu 812

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

Ken, to square the radius is not add it. You must multiply. 11 X 11 = 121 not 22 as you propose.
I again say it is not a good idea to pressurize a barrel which is not rated as a pressure vessel.
If using air pressure to move gas out of a vessel/tank is such a good idea why don't gas stations and truck stops use that method?
To the best of my knowledge all gas stations and truck stops use pumps.
My 2 Cents
Rick Cates

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

be careful out there.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I'm probably using the wrong pump, I've got one of those big metal hand crank jobs from the local hardware store. It has a steel pipe that goes into the barrel and a few few of clear plastic hose going to the cans I fill.
Good info about venting the the swollen cans in the summer, I sometimes get a little worried when I go into the shop and see a drum all billowed out like that. It seems like the right thing to do is the vent it, From now on I'll let be. Thanks guy's.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I use the same kind of pump. It works great will fill a jug in less than a minute.

Re: 55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?
 

I too use air pressure to get fuel out. . .I had asked some questins about the safety due to fast moving air building static. . . Nobody seem to know. I know that when installing a central vac, the manufactor wanted the pvc pipe grounded due to igniting lent particles in the plastic. . . . .After seeing whats some have wrote and realizing that pressuring alky along with possible static from an air hose could be a lethal combination.

Certainly wont be doing it again. I couldnt imagine what 20 or 30 gallon bomb could do me or my family.


Thanks