Factory Showdown at INDY
 

After looking at some numbers for the Factory Showdown at Indy it appears that the complaints about the naturally aspirated cars being uncompetitive seem unfounded.

Arguably the baddest CJ around:
This year Don Fezell ran his 8.97 pass as a new 2012 AA/S, minimum weight of 3361lbs, now he has to be almost 300lbs heavier in the Showdown and should be .030 slower meaning a 9.27.

Indy Qualifying 2011
Terry Emmons ran his ’11 Challenger at Indy last year and qualified in old 2011 AA/SA with a 9.477. His minimum weight would have been 3545lbs. For the Showdown he can be 100lbs lighter than that so 9.37et.

At Indy last year the 6.1/5.7L cars were led by Barton who ran a 9.67 with the 5.7L? combo in A-Stock. The 6.1’s best effort if I recall correctly was Keith Lynch with a 9.83 in A/SA. The 6.1’s were rated at 404hp at the time so their minimum weight in A/SA would be 3402lbs. Now, if they can get there, they can knock off 400lbs which theoretically makes the car a 9.43et.

Barton I thought had a 5.7L which I think was rated at 398hp(?) so his minimum weight would have been 3354lbs? Now with 350lbs less that 9.67 becomes a 9.32et?

At Indy 2011 CJ’s won class on holeshots – not overpowering
Indy 2011 AA/SA Class Evan Smith (CJ) ended up winning the whole thing but went through Terry Emmons (DP). He beat Terry on a holeshot .034 to .072. Evan held a slight margin with an ET almost .004 better but had Terry cut a .030 he’d have won that round and maybe the whole class.

Bill Skillman beat Durham when Durham went red. Bill cut a pretty good .025 light anyway and was a little less than .008 better in ET but who knows if Durham lifted after seeing red.

Other DP Challenger facts:
A V10 Challenger ran 9.36et at Pomona this year in BB.
Dave Thomas owns the CC record with a 9.43 with a minimum weight of 3545, knock of 100lbs and it’s a 9.33et.


Lastly in ADRL we have the following info.
At the Houston the winning Cobra Jet was roughly .005 faster than the fastest V10 Challenger (Butner qualified with 5.838, Teuton 5.885.) they were 150lbs different in weight and in the ¼ would have been 9.24 vs 9.31. With the Indy Showdown rules they would be another 50lbs separated so theoretically those cars would run 9.24 vs 9.26 at Indy weights.

Summation:
There is no doubt there are a handful of Cobra Jet guys going very fast, but there are also a bunch that aren’t going nearly that fast. Based on the numbers here the Challengers are within a few hundredths of the baddest CJ’s and we really have no idea how well the new Camaro will run although that 427 combo looks very competitive.

I can’t see any reason based on the numbers here to believe the Challengers are hopelessly outgunned. There is 675lbs benefit for the Challenger V8’s, and 200lbs different for the V10’s with 512cid! And if none of the DP challengers compete the message isn’t that the rules aren’t even, the message is that no one is interested in heads-up racing.

It’s not surprising the CJ’s have picked up. They have 4 years of development on many more cars in competition. I can only think of 5 or 6 V10 cars that have been out but there were over 20 of those 5.4L CJ’s at Indy last year between Stock and Super Stock. Sounds to me like the V10’s are getting developed now.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I think you have done your home work well - it could be interesting

Just one thing stopping us - $$$$ - and boy I really want to be there

If we can find $7500 - we will be there but I am not holding my breath - just my wallet

I think old age and sensibility has finally set in - OMG

We will see how much will power I end up having


Ron

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Very interesting facts and super statistics, BUT the Challengers with 6.4, 5.9 and 6.1 cant I dont think get to their weight and if they could all they will do is spin. I am speaking for my car in that I cant get lower than 3200 and at that it will blow the tires off...

Do those weights include driver or plus 170lbs ???

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

We both know someone that could fix that problem for you. :D

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Drew Skillman went 5.70 @ 121 at 3600 lbs. That's a quick enough 1/8th mile for low 8.90s easily. Add 75 lbs and it's still an 8.9x. I just don't see any N/A car going that quick, especially since I doubt any of the V-8s can get to 3000 lbs.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Andrew , thats was at ADRL and I they geared the cars a lot different . The car was setup up for 1/8 mile only and cant run that combo in the 1/4 mile . Butner , Skillman and Fezzel have all run in the 8.90"s in the quarter mile but all at a minimum of 3361lbs

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I"d go to indy but fuel cost"s are in the way. I"d need $3500 for diesel. the fastest car doesn't all ways win

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Things that make you go hummmmm. Very nice write up btw, but Barton went 9.67 with a 6.1 in A/SA (which created quite a show in the pit's) and Lynch went 9.83 with a 5.7 in A/SA. If my old memory serves me right Kevin Helms was the only DP 6.1 A/S.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

i think it is like taking a knife to a gun fight just saying. i don't think you will out run the ford's with the blowers.and don't think the chevy's will be ready in time.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I totally agree but we would still go - who wants to reimburse the costs?

About $6000


Ron

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I dont think 2 valve motors will ever out run a 4 valve motors , but it's a lot closer then you think . I agree the fastest car does not always win

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

good luck trying to get a reasonable balance of HP factors for the brands. Probably wont satisfy everyone just as the old Top Stock IHRA classes. A CiC deal in the racing would help...and apply it to the next race to start at a better factor system in the future.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Dick you might be right or they could just go to a index race of say 6.0 and they would have a full field .

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

My 2 cents. For a competitive class, the base must be the v8 natural cars which can get to about 3250 lbs, but what you have is 427 Fords and Chev, and 392 biggest Mopar and I don't think any can get to 3000 lbs. There have been no concessions on the v8 cars to date. Forget that the 392 is 10.5 and the 427's are 12.5 and 14.5 respecively. The 512 Mopar and the blown Fords and Chevys at a 200 lb advantage to the Mopar might work, except the Fords and Chevys both have a 3 speed trans and the Mopar has a 2 speed. The reasoning is that the Mopar never made any. Funny thing, the 50 or so Chevys all got 2 speeds, but some paperwork says they offer a 3 speed. Not to mention the 9.70 index. This is still part of Stock Eliminator so if it takes .65 under to get in, those cars got to run 9.05 to get in. So it obviously isn't for the folks that want to run for the Big Show. I guess that was about .50 cents worth, so Bo you started this so you owe me the .48 cents.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

While we would like to participate - I think given normal Indy conditions a 9.40 ET would be a respectable run for us

That would be only .30 under the 9.70 index and will not make the field

The 9.70 is the same as AAA/SA index

We just ran at Bakersfield a few weeks ago and ran a best of 9.39 - with us as light as we can get (3525) - I was told by an expert (Phil Mandella) that is what we will run at INDY

Given the weight breaks - 10.20 would be way more realistic - only a couple of the CJs might be able to run a second under - none of the V10s - and none of the V8s

No sense going if we can not make the show

Ron

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

GM never offered any Trans but a PG several people I know ask for manuals and were told No, if you want something different you will have to convert it yourself after you get the car.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Jeff why don't you and Bo figure out some way we can run heads up with the big blower cars.I am waiting on my COPO should be any time i have the #3 car.Miss all those heads up races Over at the old Top Stock Class.It got a lot of attention and could get more especially now that All three Factories are in the race game again.If anyone can pull it off you can.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Paul, you got a SS car and I don't know what the plans are for those. Some of those CJ cars really fly like Hopkins. Should be fun once the bugs are out of the Copo's. We keep hearing about a 6.2 blown motor for Mopar, so maybe.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Jeff , I will pay you .48 cents then then some if you take beer in trade . Paul and Jeff kick in 10k each and i will kick in 10K , find some great tracks and let match race . Same cubic inch , spec blower , same TB and all 3spd and let race . I will bet a bunch of guys jump in 4 races , $7500 to the winner . I'm in How about it , MIR , The ROC , Bradenton and Milian Michigan . Book Dates for July ,August and Sept . Quit cryin and get out some of that moldy cash you two got tucked away and let race . Only if you two are up to the challenge of course !!!

Paul , hows that for coming up with something ?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Jerry had it right. The Mega Maniac ran the 9.83 with a 5.7

My Drag Pak is one of the lightest ever built. Drooze and I did everything we could to get it there. And we have always had a few more that we could drop if the reason presented itself.

But even so, we can probably only get to just under 3200 with driver. And frankly, that isn't enough to give us what we need to beat the hair dryers.

So there is no chance that I will ever run it the ADRL.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

No reason why some track would not want to sponsor a ss heads up race among the big 3 auto makers.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Only one I can think of is Money . If we put some up a track will do it

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

How about Hagerstown MD November 3-4 along with our two S/SS Combo races? Nothing else going on that time of year, and a within reasonable driving distance of quite a few DragPak/CobraJet racers. I'm pretty sure I could make it happen if there was enough interest.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Don't all of the Copo cars come with 9-inch tires? According to the classification guide, the two supercharged Camaros are identical other than the supercharger and throttle. One could easily swap back and forth. No?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Why would we pay a track to entertain their customers? Don't you remember Top Stock when we ran down the track the flash bulbs went off so much they lit the place up.Everybody wants to see the Big 3 AMERICAN car makers compete again heads up like they did at the dawn of the muscle car age!

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I haven't looked at the guide, but with the Ford's, the small blower can be run in either class, but the large blower is SS only.
Chuck

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Paul , I had to pay for us to run top stock . Every class that races as a sponsor who pays for that class . At this point there is no sponsor therefor no class or place to run your SS car heads up .

Dont for get before me GM paid for top stock in IHRA . Paul get your local track to put up the money for us to run. Mike I like your offer , now only if some others would join in

Mike , I have talked to NHRA tech several times the only place the COPO 4L car can run is super stock . I would agree you could swap the blower and run if that's the only difference

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Let me know what you guys would need and/or want, and I'll see what I can do.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Get us a big blower heads up class

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Regarding SS heads-up:
If the Factory Showdown is successful in Stock, the logical progression is into Super Stock for next year, similar to the Hemi SS event. We have a tremendous opportunity to make change with success.

For the CJ owners we have the CJ Showdowns at NMCA Milan and NMRA Bradenton. We could easily add an all make element to that for 2013.

And if there's enough of the SS cars maybe ADRL gets in on the action as well.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Here is the real deal Cambria. Nobody likes you. Sorry, but Bo won't tell you so I did. I bet that got your attention. From your buddy Foghorn. Jessee, this program is not really complicated, but there has to be some at least chance of parity. The shame of it is I am bringing 2 V10 and 1 V8 car to Indy, and don't even plan to run in this heads up class, and I love heads up. Just asking for a little balance. I would like to go to some Ford shows. I been the outlaw at lots of events. I just heard of an interesting proposal which will go to NHRA last week. Would allow the class to prosper and not offend anyone. Now I know yall can't wait, but I got to go to my fish camp. They got cold beer to handle there.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Parity? And this from the man who has been beating the snot out of racers for two years with his "Factory Hot Rod."

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

It's a bracket race Bruce, get over it.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

A bracket race? Are you now telling us that you will no longer run in class and heads up races? And I don't think you are in a position to tell me to get over anything.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

sounds good count me in.I know Bo is in and I suspect Teuton won't be far behind.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Do true stock racers really care that they are racing the Bogus cars against each other....
This is just for show, nothing I would give 2 sh-ts about. Gary

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I'm guessing only the people running those cars will watch. Not too many others care. Just correct the HP ratings & put them in the classes where they belong.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I bet almost everyone watches!

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

The problem is NHRA will run this as a fill in when time allows just like Hemi-Shot Out. The stands will empty out just like when Pro Stock runs. Ed is right on this! This will not be the savior of Major Leauge Drag racing, it will turn out like AHRA GT 1, 2, and 3. IHRA Super Mod, Factory Mod and GT 1 and 2, and Top Stock. NHRA Pro Stock Truck.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

3600 miles truck and trailer round trip $2,600 for a once in a life time trip, Ron, you could knock that of your bucket list. Jeff, where do we send our application for hired driver for that Blue DP.lol How's the hip, I hear New Orleans Sazerac and Creole Bloody Mary's help with the healing. Claude Ruel P.S the Gump is right, most of the people who follow Stock and Super stock will care and watch, the others who don't watch they can stand in line for autographs of Force enterprise!