Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Take it easy on me guys...for over analyzing the OBVIOUS..haven't been to a drag race all year...been busy on the homefront!

What makes the Crate Motor Classes so enticing? Seen an increase of them on here...
softer indexes and easier to "build" than a "traditional" Stock Eliminator car? Faster too...for those with a "need for speed?"

And with the way the economy is right now...why not more Pure Stock entries? Certainly easier on the wallet...and a way to get into the program without stretching the budget....maybe too slow...and boring for some individuals?

If the above has been discussed before...my apologies...(I don't get on here that often!)

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

If I were building a stocker I would build a traditional type stocker engine that I could run at both IHRA and NHRA.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

I'm with Mike. Why would anybody paint themselves into a corner building a car that can only run with one group? IHRA may not be around for ever. I hope they are, but who knows?

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Techs Terry Bell and Mike Baker came up with CM classes for IHRA about 15 years ago and that saved the Stock class in IHRA. They may be somewhat easier to build since they offer easier to find parts, like Holley carbs and unaltered aftermarket intakes. More people know about Holley's than other brands. It also offers a lot of unique combinations using the factory available engine combos. But they still have to follow the blueprint rules. They have their own classes and don't run heads-up with the conventional Stockers. Their under-the-index capabilities are similar to NHRA cars as can be seen at some of the bigger events, but they can get as expensive as the faster NHRA cars as well.

Unfortunately, not as many NHRA legal cars show up at IHRA events even if there are many in the general area, so CM cars tend to be the majority. But new ones pop up from time-to-time.

My main reason for joining was the Holley carb, as I don't know anything about Carter carbs so no NHRA legal combo. IHRA racing overhead tends to be less expensive and events are shorter too.

Pure Stock has a lot of potential. But teardown can be even more complicated and detailed than "regular" Stock. Personally, it's more fun to go faster with the CM option.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Myron makes a lot of good and accurate points (like usual).

One big variable is where you live. When I lived in NC, there were plenty of IHRA tracks and races, and you could do a full season with just IHRA. Easy to run some Div. 1 and 2, along with Div. 9 races, without living on the road. Crate motor or even the Stock GT stuff was a good option. Much easier to find a body you want to race, than finding all the numbers matching stuff for a NHRA legal stocker. My 67 Firebird is a good example of that. 1967 was a one year only for heads and intake on the 400 - parts are not cheap and not easy to find. But I could put a crate motor together and go racing. Might not qualify at the top, but could race for cheap (is there such a thing???). Same with finding a complete stocker motor and putting a GT combo together.

Now that I live in TX, my crate motor has really limited my racing. Fewer IHRA tracks and much more traveling to be able to claim enough races to worry about points. Can still bracket race the crate motor without as much worry as most stocker motors, but limited tracks and much more travel out here just to hit in Div. 4 races.

All depends on what you want to do, where you are, and how much you can afford to spend! You can go faster, easier, most of the time with crate motors, especially in bodies that did not offer a "fast" motor, if that is what you want to do. Vega's for example, and every OEM has some light bodies out there for the picking.

Good luck.

Ken

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

I would say Myron is spot on with his analagy; when I looked at Crate Motor Stock about ten years ago, it appeared to be the least expensive way to get back into class racing, (on paper anyway). I don't think that was the case, but because finding correct parts even for an old small block Chevy engine is getting tough and expensive, I chose to go that route and do not regret the decision. It was a great idea for some but not all, and I'm glad Terry Bell and IHRA came up with a new spin on Stock Eliminator. As long as there are blue print specs for the engine used, the class is pretty easy to police. With the introduction of all the Factory Muscle Cars in the class, Stock Eliminator isn't what it once was and never will be again, so change is necessary, and good whether we like it or not. Just my two cents.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

I had thought about the CM classes at first.
Then I looked at Pure Stock and went that route.

As posted above, the CM entries are easier to find parts for and tend to have more modern internals. ( i.e. roller cams, rockers, modern aluminum heads.)
I can see how this is much more attractive to racers getting started.
Also as posted above, some of those CM entries are as expensive as conventional Stockers.

I am currently looking into updating my PS to NHRA Stock so I can run the combo classes around here.
The tracks with combo races around here are not IHRA friendly...

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

In this part of the world (Southern Ontario / Western New York) , it comes down to $. There is an outstanding Combo series up here. The Can-Am Stock Super Stock series offers 12 dates, with the longest tow to 3 different tracks hosting being 2 1/2 hours. I run a 3rd Gen Camaro in G/CM, best so far is a 10.95 @ 120 and from the time the car rolled in the shop to start the build, untill it was racing I have less than $20k invested. To try and run that car as a "traditional" stocker, with that performance, with that amount invested ...... anyone being honest knows it is not possible. So the short of it is......you do your research, you make your choice, the other guy does the same, and we should all be happy when another stocker gets built.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

I guess that explains what's going on...thanks guys!

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

How many people can chase around the country today, not to many,,
If your going to race close to home where it's IHRA & NHRA
The Crate Motor is the only way to go,
It's the only way a young racer can race now day's...
They can't spend $ 35,000 Plus on a stocker.
Look around at the races How many young people do you see ?
NHRA may end up with Crate Motor's,,
Parts are harder and harder to find for the BB & SB

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Doesn't NHRA allow some aftermarket/replacement parts in stock? Or just SS

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Yeah and doing that it's getting closer and closer to a crate motor.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Outside of division 9 there is not really that many crate motor cars out there. I would venture to say less than 50 total. Probably more CJ's and DP's being raced than Crate Motors.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

I hardly think building an IHRA crate car would be "painting myself into a corner". Where I live im close to alot of IHRA tracks....my home track is NHRA sanctioned but the chances of having a points race is slim and none....and really if I have to sit out and watch for one weekend instead of digging through piles of garbage cast iron intakes, leaky qjets and rotten heads I will. The thought of building a traditional NHRA stocker has crossed my mind with the possibility of having a 3 speed in a 68 SBC combo but I need to have it in writing before I start. At the end of the day, most people dont undertand the whole concept of the crate class anyways. Most will assume its a tuned up dealer piece like they run in the DIRT series but unfortunatly its not. Everything in the engine is the same as a traditional stocker except for the heads and intake....for me a trip to the wreckers will yield me a set of 96 and up vortec heads that will actually work well out of the box....im only 32 but the last time I looked I never seen a 68 camaro/impala/chevelle/ect at the wrecking yard with a 350/295hp engine thats was carb to pan that would be salvagable or afordable. And no the index and the HP ratings are not all that soft...for example I run a 330hp vortec crate combo in H....3305 is my minimum and the index is 11.95...ive been picking at this combination for 5 years now and after finding and using every single ounce of HP (STOCK ELIMINATOR) and can go 1 under the index....or more if need be...not bragging by any means but I do work on my stuff alot....ask my wife....LOL. If you are surrounded by IHRA tracks I would definitly be building an IHRA crate motor....and hopefully some day NHRA will alow us to run as well.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Donald Barnes(Worked for Jeff and Charlie Taylor for years) told me you don't want crate motors in NHRA. I asked why. He said your pockets aint deep enough son. I said I don't understand. He said all it takes is for one of those NHRA guys decide they want a crate motor and you're done. You will never outrun them. LOL

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

I say bring it

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

It doesn't matter how fast they might be if you don't run them heads-up! Several crate motor classes to choose from and crate motors can get HP added to them also!

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Random thoughts...

NHRA skipped crate motors and went straight to crate cars. :p

I know some folks who had pestered IHRA about allowing crate motors in Super Stock GT many years ago, but the answer was always no.

It all seems kind of silly, after reading all of the "superceded parts" threads.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

I agree with ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^! the powers that be should have taken the new cars and crate motor stuff and formed stock F/X. The aaa,bbb, and ccc classes crack me up. But I think that was done cause how the cj's, dp's and copo's are advertised and sold.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

X-2 Brandon Why push it and cheat,,
Most of the crate motor cars and I say MOST have out of the box cyl. heads & intake
with a valve job, new springs and that's about it.
That's the good point,, Not spending $3,000 to have all the tricks done on a set of heads and intake.
That was Mike Baker & Terry Bell's idea of getting more people into stock with out
spending a ton of money.........
Remember crate motor's can get hit bye the Horse Power God .....
I know people cheat ! I picked up a crate motor car a couple year's ago from a Div. 3 racer and when we went through the car we found a delay box ! WHY !!!
These guy's are not racer's just cheaters !!!!

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Ken....Id be willing to bet that since I left IHRA the majority of the REALLY FAST crate engined stockers are bogus. The few I have seen and hear about have enhanced heads and intakes. Not to mention moved ring lands (allowed now), lite piston and rod assemblys and toyota sized rod journals. Its like building an NHRA engine.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

id love to race ihra, two races here close...
but i cannot go race where the other 283's are rated at 210 and i am 215 with smaller carb, larger cc's and more deck height... AND they get THE 459 intake !!!!!!!!

baker seems uninterested in my $$ or fairness.

captain jack

lets see what'd i fit with a 502 @ 4500lbs ???
i can diet :)

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

All of these cars race in the same class as you?

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

darryl they can run u/sa with it & besides it is principle ... would you race if another 455 was wrong ?

jack

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Terry,
We all know who they are, (lol)
Didn't know you could move the top ring ? that's news ?
I know our stuff has been checked at the track and legal,,,
NHRA & IHRA both have bogas stockers ,I bought one and had to spend to fix it !!
What I'm saying is that for a young guy wanting to build a stocker and not spend $ 30,000
the crate motor is the way to go. That's if you have the track's to race.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Maybe Danny Waters could jump in here. The last time I kept track of it all the pistion had to do was "LOOK STOCK" from the top when the head was removed as in flat tops, valve reliefs or correct dome if the claimed engine called for it. Havent heard much about tear downs in a long time except for those setting a record. Have any oil pans been removed in the last 12 years? I sincerly doubt ANY of the fast GM or N.C. Mopars are "Stock" in the head dept. Id sure like to look at a few that come to mind.

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

No comment ,,,,,I'm retired............ just doing chassis certs now............

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Terry,
I think the last Rod pulled was about 2006 or 2007. LD Whitley at Norwalk and he was 100 % legal.
I could be wrong.
I left Stock in 08 Could'nt afford it anymore.
.90 racing easier on the wallet.
Chip

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Well ,i could not resist ..........The records you see set at IHRA are checked ,usually before the qualifying......... OrThe engines have been either checked at the engine shop or at the track and are sealed at that time............Just because you don't see a car torn down does not mean it has not been checked.........Flame on.....................

Re: Trend in IHRA Stock Elim?
 

Since I bought my Volare' I have had it checked and sealed every year in the comfort of my own shop. IHRA has a great program that lets you be checked and sealed at the beginning of the year so you have no worries all year unless you change something. You show up at a race and if you want to set a record or win a race all you have to do is fill in your annual inspection number and your done! Saves BBQ time and everyone knows you are legal. Can't get much easier for all involved. Jim


.