The damage recently done
 

by a handful of AMC racers and the NHRA Tech Dept. to Stock and SS eliminators is FAR worse and FAR more reaching than any of the new Factory Specials will ever be! The Tech Dept. might just as well do away with Stock and SS right now, give us all 780 Holleys, aluminium intakes and heads and .477 lift cams and call us what we are fast becoming, ET-2.
Look it up yourselves, 66-72 AMC blueprint specs. And nobody got notified about a change.

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Now Jeff, responding to your post on another thread, I have sitting in front of me a bunch of musty old books entitled,"AMC Technical Revisions and Dealership Notes". I have 65-68 and 70-72. We haven't found 69 yet but be patient. Now I've just quickly broused through the books and haven't found anything yet. Group1-Engines, Group6-Fuel and Exhaust, and Group19- Performance Parts (68-70-72 only) and I'm not finding anything. Maybe you could tell me where it is that I'm going to find notices for these parts that were allegedly installed by the dealers to replace the factory parts?

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Quote from the NHRA rule book, in the engine section: "Equipment other than original factory-installed prohibited. Any special equipment export kit (superchargers, dealer-installed options, etc.) automatically disqualifies car."

Well, did the factory ever put a 780 holley or an aluminum edelbrock manifold on these AMCs?

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Wow, I just checked the qualifying at the Div. 6 Woodburn LODRS race, and after the first session, Jim Mantles AMC Pacer is #1 qualifier! I wonder if the 258 6 banger recieved some of this new AMC enhancing!!

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Yes Jeff, we're waiting. Tell me the Group number and date.

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And I cant have a 350 LT1 motor combo in a 1970 NOVA...!!!
Anything in the AMC book for me Billy...lol

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Not saying this happened but at that time AMC was using the Ford Autolite carbs like on the 429/460 maybee this 780 Holley appeared the same time frame as the Holley 780 for the 351 Cleveland's. Those cars used the Autolite 4100 and 4300 D was Fords version of a Q-Jet. Could this have happened?

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Amen James! I'd love to put the LT-1 in mine as well.

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429 CJ got Q-Jet, 429 SCJ got 780. Base 351 got Autolite, Boss 351 and 351 CJ got 780. Different manifolds and cams.

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You can it's called super stock Gt
Just joking this AMC deal is to much even for me and iam a new bogas ford guy

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What something Mr.lee doesn't want to talk about? The 4x keyboard racer champ didnt want the cat let out of the bag. Why? Because he wanted to get on this forum ( and 5 others ) and tell everybody how great and smart he and the other AMC racers are. Well just one thing make sure you give a link to NHRA Blueprint specification page for AMC. Just for a reminder of why the AMC Class cars seem to run so well !!!

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Base 429 used the Autolite carb. The 351-C NEVER used Holleys in production I have copy's of the 70, 71, and 72 all Boss 351 and 351 CJs used the Autolite 4300D

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Ralph is correct. The Boss came with an autolite carb that is really expensive and somewhat hard too find. We need one to restore our boss. No holley on the 71-72 351 cars. However, we do get to use one in stock.

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How many of the 4300D's do you need? I think i have about 4 or 5 still. Can supply them to you anyway you want. Email me Dee9275@yahoo.com

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Billy -
Not much different than the Shelby specs fiasco that we all went through for the '67 428s, or the .529 cam for the FE Fords, or the current D4B Edlebrock manifold for a 273 MoPar, or the F5WE heads for the 428 CJs, or Edelbrock heads/World Products/Batten/Indy/Canfield heads for everything, or the NASCAR hemi cars, or open chamber aluminum heads for all '66-'71 high perf big block Chevrolets, or 780 Holley carbs on 390 Fords, or . . . . .

The '71-'72 Clevelands ALL got the aluminum manifold and 780 Holleys, not just the CJ and Boss. Have you ever seen a conocurs Mustang with a Holley carb and aluminum manifold?? No, because they weren't made. (Not picking on the Fords; just an example)

I have seen the time when I would be right there beside you waving the banner for purity, but I believe that's a waste of time. As a good friend of mine who was the second best tech man I have ever known told me once, "If it passes tech, it's legal. That doesn't mean it is 'stock'. What's legal is what is in the book." That's where we are.

And what about the current offerings from the big three? Paper engines, paper cars, paper power ratings.

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This is a screwup, group 19 parts are not "stock", never were and never should be.
Flat top pistons were never available in a 360 AMC either. I don't know who manages to convince NHRA to keep bending the rules but for the sake of the sport, this needs to be better policed. It's not just the AMC guys, I can find lots to complain about with the other makes as well.

Jim Mantle

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Dwight,

There has been some bogus stuff before, but this is by and far as bogus as it gets. I am glad I am knocking things off my bucket list with NHRA as fast as I can, becasue this will be a joke bracket race soon. The 273 still has to use a correct cam and carb. If I had a .477 cam and a 780 holley you would see an OLD 10 second K/S car.

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I think it's .527 lift, Let's not get carried away!

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I thought the .529 cam for the FE fords was bad. Then the 850 carb, flat top pistons and CJ heads for a '67 Shelby was worse. Then the NASCAR hemi (?!) with a drag race body package?? Aluminum open chamber heads on a '65 Impala? It's all bogus, and as bogus as it gets. This round is no different. But, thanks for the AHFS becasue it will save us, right??

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I've not been ignoring this. Just working.

As pointed out, there is a book full of allowable items in S/SS that some find objectionable. Some, but not nearly all, of it already pointed out on this thread. When I last raced in D/S, I raced against some pretty good running 390 Mustangs and the Boss 351 of Rob Youngblood. The Boss 351 had a 780 Holley in lieu of the factory 4300D. The 390 Mustang had a 735 Holley instead of the 600 Holley on top of a Police Interceptor aluminum hi-rise instead of the flat cast iron unit. And it got a 8 qt oil pan. But who cares, it's in the books and the books allow everybody access so you can build any car you want with parts that suit your needs.

No need to go look at the '60's Shelby offerings that have popped up lately, it's been discussed to death here. Same with 383 two four barrels, hi-compression Pontiac's, 327 intakes on 283's, Oldsmobile cams, you name it, it's out there.

And Billy, I don't know if you race IHRA but I do think it's in your area of the country so I'm assuming you do. But had you been looking, you might have found IHRA accepted the Holley for Stock on AMC about 9 years ago.

NHRA just now put it in the books. And AMC themselves submitted the larger cam to NHRA DECADES ago. I brought it up and they found it in their archives.

And Blue Oval, you're right. It was in the AMA specifications. A bunch of you critics are probably to young to know what that's all about. The OEM submitted specifications to the AMA about everything (wheel cylinder volume, spring weight for ignition points, trunk volume, etc., etc., etc.).NHRA used AMA specifications as a source guide.

I have been dealing with NHRA on this for 12 years. I've been told everything I submitted was what they wanted to see and then told "no" for no explainable reason. I've been told to get this or that and "were good to go" then told no. I never threatened to use an attorney and wouldn't know any of the NHRA tech officials if they showed up at my door this afternoon. I just never gave up because I had the documentation and I knew it was right.

And for "Super Trick", I raced D/S last about 7 years ago. My ET's were 10.55-10.65 here in Arizona; never made it to a sea level track. And that was with a .457" cam, cast iron intake and 4300 Autolite. I'd suggest if you have a comparable D/S or D/SA car, you should be able to do better with 7 years in advancements. But I doubt it.

For the record, I've posted on this site more than once LT-1 '70 Nova's should be allowed in S/SS. I've also stated I would love to see factory approved parts allowed by all makes. I'd personally love to see (maybe a separate class called "Trans Am Stock") with Cross-Ram '69 Z-28's vs. Cross-Boss Boss 302 Mustangs and Cross-Ram Javelins along with whatever "off road" cam that was available at the time. Stage II Buick's? Heck yea.

Anybody else...build an AMC. I'd love to have some competition. And in the end, I'm sure I'll be quite familiar with the AHFS.

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So who do I need to talk to at NHRA about getting some "enhancements" for my D/SA car?

Btw, which AMCs were the bigger cam, aluminum manifold, and 780 holley installed on from the factory, I never got an answer to that question.

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They were assembled by the same people who put those aluminum heads on that 1965 Impala.

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I'll stand by my original post. NHRA has never made such broad sweeping changes to so many combos in one shot ever. PERIOD. If you have the proper paperwork then just post it on here but remember, I've got the books sitting here on the floor so don't try yanking my chain.
And Dwight, OBTW, just for the records, at least Chevy made big blocks with aluminium heads. You show me any AMC V8 with them.
I'm so damned glad that everything I have is so da**ed different that no-one wants to be bothered with it. I guess the new deal now is "well he's cheating so I'm gonna cheat".

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And for "Super Trick", I raced D/S last about 7 years ago. My ET's were 10.55-10.65 here in Arizona; never made it to a sea level track. And that was with a .457" cam, cast iron intake and 4300 Autolite. I'd suggest if you have a comparable D/S or D/SA car, you should be able to do better with 7 years in advancements. But I doubt it.

So 7 years years you spent a bunch of time,money and had a soft NHRA HP rating and ran fast? Boy don't hurt your arm patting your self on the back. Lets talk about what time and money (and low HP combos) cant buy, World championship, a race win. A couple things i don't here you talk about. There are plenty of people on here that post that have championships,race wins,records,# 1 qualifying you never here them talking about what they have done. Why? It's something called "CLASS". It's nice to think that some racers still have it.

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First off, my D/S AMX was rated @ 315 HP. The same as the aforementioned 390 Mustangs at the time with their "improved" parts list. So if a Mustang 390 with larger oil pan, manifold and carb were "soft" but still weighed the same as my AMX, then I guess we were both "soft". And you also have no clue as to how much testing I've done, engines and clutches I've lost testing the limits.
Second, in one sentence you say you don't hear me talking about world championships, or race wins. Next sentence you say of those with such accomplishments, they don't mention it. Which end are you talking from?
Third, on the subject of class, you might notice I don't hide behind a screen name. Talk about classless!

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Hey Super Truck.....go ahead and post your successes. I would like to see them and congratulate you. To Jeff's defense (and he needs none)....He built his car before he wanted to spend so much time with his children. Therefore, his priorities have shifted (pun intended)....

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all this sounds like there's gonna be 400 amc stockers built over the winter;)

yeah, right...

oh yeah, should i be bent out of shape because damn near everybody can have beercan heads and i'm stuck with cast iron?

290 amc's can't run aluminum heads... and as far as the "BIG HUGE ADVANTAGE" the R4B is,well, "dated" comes to mind...$$$ is another...

at least it'll be something different than another camaro/mustang/challenger.....HEY!!!
WAIT A MINUITE!!, i remember seeing a javilin ad back in '69 that had a 6/71 blower on it!

wonder where THAT was in the group 19 section .....;)


this is pure sarcasm and to be taken as such...

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Wow the 343 in GT with aftermarket heads is 270HP, 202 intake with the 3310 which flows 800 cfm on my bench. Built properly this motor should make 600 HP, if I was an AMC guy, I'd stuff that baby in a Gremlin and fly.

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Duane, put them on Ebay, I was at the R.M. auction in Auburn last Saturday(no rain) and talk to a friend who was selling two Boss 302 and he told me that he paid just under 3k for his number matching carb, so you better make sell them at the right place and retire.lol On a side note, it's always nice to see passion being debated properly. Thanks guys. Claude

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I am not sure how much the superseded parts really help those cars. At the end of the day, they are still AMCs. :eek:

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Sounds good until you are looking at their taillights.

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There are only two things that would make me quit racing, getting beat by an AMC or a chick....umm....There is only one thing that would make me quit racing, getting beat by an AMC.

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hey, if you're the faster car, you're ALWAYS looking at taillights...

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Yes Jeff 315 HP is a soft HP. Testing,motors,clutches it's time and money u spent great. Anybody who has been on this forum at least twice in their life know that u set the record and qualified #1. Every other post your reminding us of how fast you went,set the record and top qualifier. You bought those achievements. When you win that first race or that first championship( takes skill and talent) then you might impress someone besides you!!!

BTW ..My name is Steven Whitmore from Iowa. Hurry,Hurry type it in Google!!

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hey billy just an fyi we dont need to post anything ,nhra has appoved it and thats the way it is ,if you want to protest it call nhra and bitch to them ,,, i run the car because i like it ,i ran the 4300 carb and the cast iron intake and that has made me a better tuner and let me tell you i have done a ton of work to get (at the time my rebel machine to run 5 under) in good air ,,,sorry you have such a gripe on the combo , we all work hard on the cars we chose ,,, may be you should build an amc and be the hero and go fast ,,,stop bitching ,,,sorry i had to say it gmonde

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Hey Steven, I was born and raised in SW Iowa. I left there after I was drafted in 1966. I have gone back to visit relatives.......each time I go there, I remember why I left....LOL I don't understand why you are going after someone that you think has a "soft combo". Let me ask you, if you were to build a car today, would you build one with a "hard combo"? Probably not. So why criticize some one that has built a car and qualified well and set records? As the old saying goes "is is better to have been a has been that has done it, than someone that never was".....

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Good Grief!

Another meaningful discussion devolving into a name-calling character assassination contest. Passion is one thing, but really, can't we get beyond this?

Just be thankful there aren't more Dealer Installed Options OK'd for Stock Eliminator. Didn't Randall AMC put a 401 in a Gremlin back in the day?

This too shall pass!

Lew

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Lew, the Randall 401 has been submitted to NHRA for approval, the same with the 1969 'Cuda 440-Six Pack...(the first prototype 1969 440 'Cuda had a Six Pack engine), the Motion V-8 Vega's, the Mr.Norm's Duster with the 340-6 Pack too... :) just kidding!!! :)

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Now this whole post is just funny.
Fine, don't defend yourself, lies and deceit have no defense.
I will be calling NHRA on Tuesday,what NHRA has done can be un-done. And that's the way it is.
I'm happy for you that running a "different" car made you a better tuner. Welcome to my world. I don't have a gripe with the combo, I have a gripe with the people that totally f**ked up the combo by presenting falsified documents to NHRA to gain an advantage that they didn't deserve so that they didn't all have to work hard on their cars.
Wow, ya hear that eddie? I could build an AMC and be a hero!
If it involved just one combo, maybe I would build it and go all Paul Wong on it but I won't live long enough to build every combo that is affected.
Let me say this again so that it sinks in, EVERY 4V V8 combo from 1966 to 1972 is affected. that's 5 different displacement engines in about a half a dozen body styles, in 7 model years. That's a whole lot of combos.
And everybody bitches about a couple of Mustang combos.
I'm not bitching, you'll know it when I start bitching!

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Go get them Billy