Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Hey heads up runs we check your fuel....no.1 qualifier we check your fuel.... other then that we are all just [ bracket] racing whats the point? also with c 12 being $12 a gal who wants to throw out $40 in fuel and then have to buy it again! its stupid.how many times have you purchased fuel at one event and then fail fuel at the next!

joe mocci
1424 m/sa

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Not sure I understand the rub, but I have never failed a fuel check and I can guarantee that I don't follow the best handling procedures to keep it good. It may be since I use C-11 and sheer dumb luck.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I have never (yet) failed fuel check. With C12, and I run a plastic fuel cell with an open vent. I usually keep it full but one winter I left about 2 gallons in it. Pumped it out added new and just for a laugh I brought it up to fuel check. It was fine. And I used to to top of the rest of the race.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

How much fuel do you give each time it is checked? One half cup is usually all that we give. That figures out to about 40 fuel samples per gallon. And by looking at the qualifying sheets, very few ever fail. That means the majority of racers know how to store their fuel correctly. You must not be in that majority.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I suppose you think it's stupid that NHRA / IHRA may elect to tear down a car if it doesn't set a record or is #1 qualifier? Sorry, but there are many that believe it is a performance class and all should be held accountable. And often times, it's the guys that don't qualify well or never set records that have the tech issues.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Another benefit to checking fuel during qualifying is finding out if you're fuel is good or not for when it actually needs to be checked for heads up runs. It would suck to get to win a heads up then fail fuel check because you didnt realize it wouldn't pass.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I gave up even trying to get through fuel check with C-12 down here in D-4.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I had no trouble at Belle Rose with C 12. And like I've been saying I leave it in the fuel cell. Without even capping the vent.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Maybe they just like you Art! Whatever you are doing I'd just keep doing it.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Jim. A lot of people on here could vouch for the fact they don't like me, Ever hear of the Artie Leong factor? 13.5 percent at one time, from races they were not supposed to count.
I'm not by any means one of their fair haired boys.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I can testify! Artie is a baaaaaaaad boy! Jim


.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

x2

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I think what he is saying is that it is a "bracket race" after any heads up runs or class eliminations. With the cost for racing fuel and the extra .10 you pick up from it, it's all about shoe polish. In the "good old days", everyone ran off their class index. The faster car within their index should win against slower car running off their index. There was an advantage for every hundredth of a second to be fast. Now, it doesn't matter as much about ET, because you put what you want on the window. It's more about the cost of the fuel, not the fuel check it self.
With our bracket cars, we used to run VP or CAM 2 fuel at $12.00 a gallon. Now we run Sunoco 93 pump gas @ $3.80 to $ 4.10 a gallon with one degree of timing taken out. Last night, my son's stick car ran an 11.98, 11.97, 11.96, 11.97., so consistency has not been an issue either.
Just my .02.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Does Sunoco 93 pass fuel check?

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

The "good old days" when you won if you got to the starting line first. Only lasted one year. I think it was 1975. From then till now it's been shoe polish. Except in the case of same class.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

This thread has strayed a little from fuel check. I'll throw in my .02 in that I agree with Joe. In a previous thread, Bob Bender suggested that any fuel DQ on the low side (showing old or bad fuel) not be counted as this does not offer any performance advantage. I agree with that. Last year I bought 10 gallons of fresh Sunoco purple at Numidia and went to Englishtown the following weekend for the Supernationals and my fuel was declared no good. Luckily, I had an old jug of Sunoco and it passed no problem. (my lawn mower ran great that summer). So how about continuing with fuel check but only DQ for failure on the high side?

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Because that makes too much sense, Bob!

I find it hard to believe that with the advances in technology in the last 10 years, SOMEONE hasn't been able to design an apparatus that can screen out performance-increasing additives added to gasoline. Other than the financial considerations (not having to buy $15-a-gallon race fuel), why shouldn't the powers that be find a way to allow us to use pump gas if we want to?

I know every combination is different, but most of the vehicles with lower compression may not need all that octane.

Just my $.02

Lew

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I had read a few years ago in a engineering journal that in many instances ( not all -but most ) that engines ( stock type ) can ran faster on a certain tune with lower octane than available race gas. That going as low as you can with octane with no detonation has shown those results. Would love to post the article but can't find the magazine since I moved. This probably has something to do with the big power engine builders and tuners are getting from pump gas motors nowadays. Wouldn't that be a nice shot in the wallet.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

A good racing chemist could enhance pump gas and make really good power with it im sure. Most likely be very hard to police with the field test. Pump gas is hard to test because there is no conststancy in it. So much Ethanol in it now a days, and getting worse. Pump gas runis alot of fuel systems these days beacuse of the corosive proporties. Guys would bitch if they started having problems with their 1200.00 Qjets and New Holley's because on the new fuel..

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Todd, Point well taken there as the ethanol ( 10% ) in the Long Island area was just killing my fuel system as it was steel braided hose without the correct lining. Going to hard line the system the system over the winter and be done with it.-John

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I have run Sunoco Purple with NO problems until this year.You go to a race and they tell you that your fuel is close to not passing,better get some fresh fuel.(It was fresh)

You get to the next race one week later and your fuel is really good....NO problem (Same fuel)

You go to the next race,and its borderline again.

(This is from testing a sample right out of the jug to eliminate anything to do with the car)

How can it get old,fresh,and old again in a matter of a few weeks?

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Truly amazing how fuel ( racing gas ) can be bought fresh in a sealed can and immediately not pass check and amazingly enough rejuvenate itself and pass check another week. If the fuel is on the low side or on the verge of checking low why would it not be able to be used. The owner/ driver would only be shorting himself of the extra hp. At the price of the fuel that should be his decision. Somebody is stroking somebody bigtime. I won't point no fingers, your big boys,you know what I am talking about. Just another NHRA enhancement. Has anybody ever challenged the findings of a fuel check as there seems to be plenty of money in the pits. What is it to buy the same equipment nhra uses and compare. You might be surprised it just might stop. my .02 cents

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Got an extra $3500 to buy one, newer ones are more. That is why no one bitches

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Bob, And thats why things are what they are ! ---John

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I always love it when you have a heads-up race in the later rounds and they have cones up in front of the scales and they wave you by both the scales and fuel check.

It's the most important time to check weight and fuel and they don't do it? Maybe before they close the scales they could call up to the tower and ask if they have any heads-up races this round, but that's probably too much to ask.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I have run Sunoco purple for the last three tears with no problems until recently. I buy my fuel in sealed drums from a guy in Harrodsburg, Ky who gets it from Wick oil in St. Louis. Andrew went to fuel check at Earlville and his fuel was not even close. Turns out or new drum of fuel was not what it should have been. Greg Anderson was in front of us in the fuel check line with purple he said was two years old and it was fine. After a few phone calls it seems that quite a few folks have had trouble with purple this year. One of my sources told me he felt like Sunoco was having quality control problems with purple. I also bought a drum of blue to try and have been told there were very few problems with the blue. Talking to the guy at Sunoco he told me that the blue was more stable and faster burning than purple. I am going to Columbus with the blue in my car and hope there are no issues.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

A lot of it has todo with burn rate

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Why cant one of the fuel manufactures blend a 93 octane pump gas blend with no ethanol for a budget type fuel. Buy it from a company without all the extra additives, or before all the blending that happens? Sell it for 5 to 7 dollars a gallon. Not all would use it, but I bet many would..

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

If fuel has been tamperd with to gain some sort of an edge then hey you should fail,other then that is there any good reason anyone should ever fail fuel check???

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

A few years back there was a lot of HOT FUEL being used in several eliminators. Stock being one. There came the specified fuels and fuel check.


VP this season has gotten C-9 approved.
97 octane UNLEADED fuel without any additives (no ethanol).
About $9.00 per gallon.
Passes fuel check.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I often wondered why they kept giving me cups to piss in after all my runs.

That's supposed to be for fuel?

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

C11 looks like a urin specimen. I always assure them it is fuel. LOL

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I don't see pump gasoline ever being legal, and the reason is pump gas doesn't have universal standards to measure against. For one thing, there are at least 3 different grades of every brand of pump gas. There are ethanol blends and non-ethanol blends. There are different blends for summer and winter. Certain geographical areas have specialized fuel blends. There would be no way to police pump gas.
There is no reason to be paying outrageous prices for race gas. There is more than one brand of race gas, and prices vary dramatically. But performance does not. Check Renegade, it's NHRA/IHRA legal.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

hey jeff lee. your response to my post is way out of line and has nothing to do with the issue.keep your wise cracks to yourself.

joe mocci
1424 m/sa

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I purchased 15 gallons of Sonoco Super Stock "blue" in sealed 5 gallon pales for our local distributor for the Sonoma points and national races. First time through fuel check at the national I was told that the fuel was "on the low side and might fail " . So to be safe I went back to the trailer and grabbed a fresh unopened can and returned to fuel check where I opened it in front of the inspectors, This sample produced the same results.
At this point I choose to purchase 5 gallons of C-12 and save the blue for a test session.
The Sonoco fuel passed with no issue the week prior at the divisional event . A week later after being properly stored it's junk? Not to mention the brand new can? I don't think so.

Mak Madison.

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

My fuel experience from 1988 to present has been a roller coaster of unbelievable events. in no particular order

I have had Sunoco or VP in my stock fuel tank which sat for 10 months, it passed.
I have had Sunoco or VP in my fuel cell for over 8 months, it passed.
Purchased VP from trailer, 1 month later, flunked.
Purchased fuel from in ground tanks at Gainesville and Bradenton, flunked
Got fuel from Immokalee above ground tank, passed IHRA, flunked NHRA the following week.
VP out of drum from trailer, passed, next week flunked
VP or Sunoco in fuel jug for 3 months, passed
VP or Sunoco in fuel jug for 1 month, flunked

Have tried Sunoco purple, green, VP sportsman, VP C-11, C-12, all with above mixed results.
FUEL CHECK SUCKS
What a joke to spend money needlessly

I put up with it, why, I don't know

Ron Ortiz
U/SA in need of a brain transplant

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Now I know where you got your screen name since you still passed the fuel checks! :D

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

I keep seeing VP and sunoco fuels failing, why? I've run Rockett fuel forever, it's reasonably priced and so far has never failed fuel check IHRA or NHRA. If I was having problems failing fuel check the first thing I would do is change brands of fuel. Joe

Re: Fuel Check What's the point???
 

Just maybe - the fuel check test should work 100% of the time

After all - they are accusing you of cheating when you do not pass

How many have had good fuel fail when you know it is good fuel

Its time to fix the test - so good fuel does not fail


Hey NHRA - FIX THE TEST

We can not afford a test which is not accurate


Ron