HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

The horsepower rating for 75-76 Chevrolet Monza, entries with the 262 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 110 currently rated at 165 has been increased by six horsepower, to 171 horsepower; for Stock Eliminator.

The horsepower rating for 2012 Chevrolet COPO Camaro, entries with the 327 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 550 currently rated at 550 has been increased by eighteen horsepower, to 568 horsepower; for Super Stock Eliminator.

The horsepower rating for 2010 Ford Cobra Jet, entries with the 281 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 235 currently rated at 257 has been increased by nine horsepower, to 266 horsepower; for Stock Eliminator.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Did the 402 get hp?
I though I saw a sheet from the dutch where that combo went 1.20 under.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

2 1209 B/SA Woody Pagano, Watertown CT, '70 Nova 10.040 11.25 -1.210 This pass

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

The above is all that was listed. Would think they would put all the adjustments out together.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

They are not getting any HP per NHRA tech at the Dutch .
He got a free pass something about wrong heads on car and they were not an advantage????????????????????????????

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Is this the alum head or cast head???

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Steel

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

The exhaust valves were too small. So probably not an advantage. It is not a free pass when a racer does not pass tech.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

so he got a 1 year vacation?

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Bruce I know its a old car but give me a break . 1.20 under get HP if you make a mistake with wrong heads to bad . Its must have been a advantage if he went 1.20 under

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Well Bo, let's see how fast he is with bigger valves.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Lets get this straight, before every key board engine builder gets their pantie in a twist. First and foremost I F---Ked up plain and simple!!I had done the heads for a 396 and when we switched and made it a 402 I never gave the valves a thought. Till dave measured it ! Yes I f--ked up!This is the reason anything that goes 1.200 under should be torn down.Why should he (or other w/ comb) be hit if his was not legal? BO what if I were to put a different blower or pulley on, and wreck your combo? As far as the guys that call themselves engine builders and want to go around the track saying this and that, JUST maybe if you did your own stuff rather than having it trucked in, then maybe you too would make a mistake once in awhile! Yes I'm sure the big valve will slow it down probably will not be able to run the index:)

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

If brian did this motor and tells u what he did wrong u can take it to the bank he is fair and honest!

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

I completely agree that every combo that runs fast enough to get hp should be torn down and pass tech. With that said, running 1.2 under with to small of valve would be like running to small of a carburetor. LOL Luckily for him this mistake saved his combo from getting an automatic hit. But will it save it from the review board at the end of the year?

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Agreed.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Just curiosity ----The wrong size valve being talked about is the exhaust side at 1.72 vs 1.88 as being the 70 402 which used the same head as a 70 LS6. Am I following this correctly ?

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

It is not the same philosophy or dynamics.
Also, the intake port does not behave the same way as an intake port.
The Chevy big block exhaust port and valve BBC are already bigger than they need to be.

Due to the lift restrictions in the class, using a smaller valve improves the curtain area by slowing down the flow and velocity.

During scavenging, the pressure recovery is better when the gases expand due to a slower velocity, specifically when you take into account the CID and RPM range limits of the engine.

Therefore, contrary to what many may think, going to a larger exhaust valve may slow down the car.

However, in the case of an intake valve, the rule would be the opposite.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

If the smaller valve is indeed the better performer here couldn't you adjust the events of the ex lobe on the cam to get your velocity and scavenging back to where it was?

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Was there any repercussions, just curious what, if anything, that would warrant???

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Very impressive run using that flat manifold that the 402 came with.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Larry, be good.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Regardless of what happened, the 402 rated at 417 would have been pretty useless kinda like when Henson hit the Mopar a few years back. Better for everyone that it didn't get hit especially being that it raced the "new cars" and the LS1.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Yes. ;)

I have discussed this in detail in many previous posts... :)

Just to give you something to think about since you are a Ford guy, take as an example the reason why the Ford Cleveland head picks up power when the exhaust port and valve is reduced in size... :)

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

New Cars? I must have missed something here. Help me Greg. And to stick to the subject, there will probably be consequences. There ususally is. What manifold Larry?

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

The following is found on the NHRA blueprint page for 1970 Chevrolet...

"Intake Manifold 3933163 with an open plenum (divider cut down) is acceptable as of June 6,2002"

Of course we all know that is bogus but what can be said other than the tech department accepted a modified replacement intake.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Tilburg , what I stated is that the rule say 1.20 automatic Hp . I have hit the trigger and got HP . The last time I got HP my roll cage was not legal but I still got HP . I did not mean to go 8.44 with the wrong roll cage but it happened and I still got HP . The same rule should apply to everyone 1.20 under you get HP thats the only thing I commented on .

Buy a cobra jet and hit my combo dont bother me a bit everyone else does

Curious was it your car or a customers car that paid you to do the motor ? Surely you're not telling your customer to do his own stuff instead of having you mess it up are you

My engine builder also made a mistake at Indy in 08 and I got a year off for the mistake

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Bo So if I claim a 350 ci and during tear down they find that It's really a 400 ci the 350 should still get hp. Are you serious. You think that a roll bar is the same as something not right with a motor. Now I have run Brian's stuff for many years and have been threw many Indy tear downs. Nobody needs to defend him. He has always been first class and so has his work. As far as I'm concered there is no one any better doing stock and super stock engines. Barry Parker one very satisfied customer.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Bo, how much faster or slower did your roll cage make you? You were at legal weight, correct? And your engine was legal to the letter, right? And you had a legal transmission?

You're comparing apples and oranges.

An engine with the wrong size valves is illegal, as in it will not pass tech. Making any passes made with that engine invalid, for any purposes.

Oh, and for the record, if someone got your combination hit with a car that would not pass tech, I would be diametrically opposed to your combination getting HP, regardless of whether or not it deserves about 25, at least.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

This is about a car going 1.20 under and on the qualifying sheet , then saying it had the wrong heads and no consequences for the party involved .

My buddy at the race went 1.201 under and got HP and was not torn down .He thinks the timing system could have been off by a thousands or two but he still got hp as did 3 other cars . The 402 should have got HP according to the rules .

I have no axe to grind or no intent to disrespect Brian Tilburg or the driver of the Nova my issiue is with the rule and how it was interpertid at the event .

So now for the record if you dont pass tech 1.20 runs dont count ? what happens if you dont get torn down they count ? so if you make a mistake and dont get caught then its ok ? and if you make a mistake and come clean at tear down you dont get punished for the mistake ?

Thats not how it work for me at the races

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

So a guy running a legal car should get HP because a guy running a car with the same combination that won't pass tech went fast? That's how it works for you at the races? :rolleyes:

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

No , thats how it works in your world . In my world I get a year off and HP . Wow you really could not bring yourself to say illegal car could you. LMAO

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Bo, it is you that claims the 402 Nova should get HP, despite the car not passing tech, it is not me.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Alan , the only thing Im claiming is the rules should be the same for everyone and that's not what happened at the Dutch .

Instead of racer's complaining that the rules are not same for everyone we are bickering between our selves about who's right and who's wrong .

We should be talking about why the rules arent the same for everyone.

Simple example's

At the Dutch not every car that went 1.20 under was not torn down . Why were some and others not ?

Why does one driver with the wrong vales get supenden and other not ?

A few years ago a 428 cj went 1.20 under at a div1 race and got hp but was light at the scales still got the hp.

That's what concerns me, yes I think based on what I have seen and experinced the nova should get the HP

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

So, rather than make things right for everyone, they should make things wrong for everyone. Got it.

Oh, and by the way, there was a Ford that had the wrong valves who only got bounced at Indy a while back, too.

It's entirely possible the cars to be torn down were chosen before qualifying, that's fairly common. You don't have to be fadt to be torn down.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

I don't know the racer in question, and I don't want to seem like I'm just picking on this one racer; however, everyone knows the rules when it comes to drawing attention to themselves when going fast and qualifying at the top of the sheet. You get torndown, you better be legal, for better or for worst. What I don't understand, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, the racer in question goes 1.20 under + , and what doesn't think he's going to the barn at a race notorious for record runs and teardown? On top of that, we have a debatable performance gain or loss issue due to the exhaust valve situation, whatever. So what I want to know is why there was no year suspension for a clear violation of the engine specs. No HP, no repercussions, BO is right, why is it a case by case issue when the rules are black and white. I've seen and heard too many racers get more than this for less. My opinion to this racer, you wanna go fast you better make sure your engine "assembler" keeps you out of trouble or hope for the best. You got lucky.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

I disagree that the nova should have got horsepower with the wrong heads. But the driver should have been parked for a year.

All 1.20 under runs should get checked before the automatic hp.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Lets not all get caught up in this 402 deal! Did you guys see that the 262 in a monza got 6hp. Guess we cant go there!lmfao

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

Probably because it is not mandatory that those that go 1.20 under be torn down. Until it becomes mandatory by the sanctioning body, some will be torn down and some will not.

Re: HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted
 

This is the same old S--T,NHRA class racing will never be the same since nhra and manufactures wanted and allowed BOGUS H/P in--Cheating has been around since--day1--junior johnson built my 2 motor years ago--chevy orange when i brought them in--gray when i picked em up :D BTW fast in the day!