Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

More 2012 End of Year Stock and Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced
Stock Horsepower Changes complete for 2nd half rating period 2012



Engine Make CID OEM HP NHRA HP New HP Years affected



Mopar 318 230 182 172 69 Dart



Mopar 440 390 390 385 69-71 GT



Mopar 318 150 185 182 1973 Dart



Mopar 440 385 411 404 1971 Charger





http://www.nhraracer.com/content/gen...573&zoneid=132

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

And....... your issue is?

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

The two 318 Combos are 2 Barrel with small carb and manifold.
They are not like the later 230 HP with a Thermoquad Combo.
We were never able to run under the index with with the two barrel
on our car Although it run over a second under with the four barrel
combo on top of the engine.
I do not think a few horsepower is not going to put them in top
16. What it may do is let a couple cars compete that I know of that
otherwisecould not run the index. The 69 and 73 Combos are 2 Barrel ONLY
and not able to run 4 Barrel (Four Barrel starts 78).

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

no issues here Jeff I just like to see if I can wind you up, need to keep your blood circulating

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

I think I see one that will run really hard. We will see soon because i am going to put one of them together. I am positive the one two barrel combo will go one second under plus and then some.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

I know which one your not going to build lmao. I don't understand how you can have more compression and less hp.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

That 69 Dart is suddenly a very good "dime rocket".

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Sam: What year combo and Horsepower is your
318 2 Brl. have you been running? I knew but
I can not remember.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

73 dart

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

What I don't understand is why this is specific to a 1969 & 1973 Dart (only)? I
As far as I know, the 1967-1971 318 2bbl is identical from year to year. If not 1967-1971 at least several years are identical with the only deviation possibly a carb?
And the 1972 318 2bbl is the same as a 1973 2bbl (and possibly the 1974 318 2bbl?).
And why do Dart's get this new HP and not Valliants? Seems to me this should be all "A" body's with 318 2bbl's and auto trans; with the higher compression pre-1972 separated from the lower compression 1972 engines and later with similar specifications.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Last year when the 69 lost 3hp I questioned this and here is the response I got ...

.Sam,

The 69 and 73 are different in that they use different intake manifolds, different combustion chamber volumes, different deck clearances, and different head gasket thickness'.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Probably what happend was in 68 was the first emissions regs, and downward since then. I have the parts books back to 1960 if anybody needs something looked up. They are the old paper books, therefore I can look up stuff in them. On the computer, I am not allowed to learn to look up stuff. I really don't understand that, but then again...........

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Then I stand corrected. If those engines are unique, then they should get unique HP adjustments.
And after looking at the class guides, the 1969 318 was reduced in all models, not just Dart. So if you have a Coronet, Swinger, Dart, station wagon; whatever, the 318 2bbl is now 172 HP.
But the 1973 was Valiant / Duster / Barracuda & 'Cuda only and not the rest of the larger car line.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Now you want consistency out of this outfit, for all the money spent? Jeez!

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

You're obviously a respected player in this game, Billy. But, good 69 Darts, and the parts needed, are getting a little scarce, don't you think? -Don't get me wrong, I love seeing combos that were never good before, become good. I never understood why so many cars weren't good before. I guess it had something to do with the muscle cars versus any other stock car. "Stock" was maybe about muscle cars, and not so much all of the other cars that we grew up with and were plenty happy to race , though NHRA didn't see it the same way.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

There is a Division 5 guy that is always at the Topeka Nationals (with his family).....his car is a P/SA...I believe a 69 Dart....what does that make it, a 318 2 bbl? He is always there and I have often wanted to help him in one way or another....he can't run within .4 of the index. However, If I remember correctly, he went to the finals at Kearney, Nebraska race in the fall. Seems like he had 2 red lights and a broken car race against him......what a great story for a Dime rocket that can't run the index.

I said that all that to say this......This guy obviously does not have the money to commit to racing (great looking family), but he goes racing....isn't that what it is all about.....I don't know if his combo could become competitive, but that is what he races. However, I would bet that about $500 in engine work would get him to the index or better with his 2 bbl car.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

If you have to buy a nice Dart GT or any kind of 2dr yes. If I were wanting to do something like that I wouldn't want to cut up a nice survivor car anyway. At this stage of the game, I really don't approve of cutting up nice, semi-collectible cars. NHRA has given racers that have an existing car and can't afford a 340/440 car or banged their 15k 340 and want to go racing an alternative.
The reduction (for this combo) is given across the board. You can do a 4dr Dart or Coronet or a big wagon and they can be found reasonably.
If you're willing to do a "different" engine combo then why not a "different" body style?

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

I like the 4 door Dart idea. Thick rim glasses and an old metal flake helmet would be a requirement. Maybe a pair of "Bata Bullets", too. :-) Wagons tend to over load trailers! Seriously though, I get your point. As I attempted to say above (poorly written), I'm always glad to see the cars that never fit, in the mix.

I know you know (maybe somebody will read this who is learning) , the car chosen would be the one that fits the best overall. One reason Mike Smith and I chose the 71 (actually a 72 Satellite body) Road Runner (the red one) that we ran briefly in the mid 90's (We ran you once at an E-Town points race, you may recall, good race, you won!) was because it could've been run as a 71 or 72, Satellite, Road Runner and with just about every motor Mopar made. Different compression's, too, since they dropped after 71. Another thing we considered when we built it, besides the car itself, was the class. We built it for D/SA initially because there weren't that many fast ones around Div. 1 at that time. We weren't fast!

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

You guys are tough. I just happen to think a metalflake helment is pretty, and I had red shoes on when I won Indy, but on the glasses, my children made me change them. I only use them for driving anyway. This Christmas my oldest grandson (age 18) was telling me that the new plaid shirt I was wearing was very stylish. It is about 20 or older and I think it's back for another run. Maybe I'm just old.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

About a month older than me, Jeff. So, yes you are. LOL

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Plaid is very popular in Boulder City! The different colors
hide all the extra dinners quite nicely!

Sam is your car running very far under the NHRA index as of yet yet?
We could not get ours to run very well over 5500 Rpm with the 2 Brl.
and it screams 7000 plus with 4 Brl. when required.
Maybe we just did not work on it long enough!

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

I've gone 13.70s at Q weight at my home track. Loaded up and went straight to the Columbus Sportnational and went 13.82.
I have to shift at 5400 5600. Stops pulling on the top end around 5600. The last 200-300 it's just going along for the ride.... The reduction to 182 is going to be worth 55 pounds and about 8 hundredths in the 1/4. Not nearly enough.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

My 307 Chebby goes on it's nose at about 5700. So did my 6 cylinders.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

The 318 2bbl motor has two major issues... Intake/carburetor and Valve clearance. Right now I'm using a cam at .050 and I have .025 clearance on the intake and .040 on the exhaust. If they would allow a 4 eyebrow 318 replacement piston, the combo would be good at 185 hp and would pull high rpm with more cam... Btw the 69 motor has .031 less clearance.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Hey! I still have my red metalflake helmet - it's hanging out in the pole barn. It's kinda faded.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Wow,
Now,maybe, we have a chance against the 3000 red '69 Camaros that show up for each race!

JimR

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

For all my friends here...and no disrespect to any one in the business, but if you're using a store bought transmission in a low horsepower combination, you're probably leaving a bunch of ET on the table..That goes for the rest of the driveline too, right Billy Boy?

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

I can assure you that there is nothing store bought about any part on this car.... This car has been 11.60s with a 10-1 340 motor with stock x heads .525 hydraulic cam, 750 on 93 pump gas. All the driveline parts are super lite...

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Is that good?

That was a FWIW, Sam .That's all

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

I gotcha. No offense taken. I can only imagine how slow the car would be with a bone stock 727. Experimenting, I put the 318 2bbl and intake on that 340 motor and it wouldn't go past 5800 and only went 13.40

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Well Sam, if you can stand another FWIW(don't ya just hate us keyboard racers?). I don't know how bad your intake is but I do know that some of the early 70s 318s had a single plane intake that doesn't look bad and the carb is bigger than the carb I'm allowed to use on my 307. Have you ever had the heads on a flowbench? What kind of cranking pressure (cylinder pressure) do you have? I'm asking because I think that your cam is a little too big. Shorten up that duration (and tighten lobesep?) and you've got valve clearence. What have you got for header dia? length?

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Lets see...
There are two intakes listed. (3698431 and 3698437) Ill have to try and find the one ending in 7.

Heads. No flow bench

180psi cranking pressure

Headers are 1.50 dia with 3' out. Not sure of length but has 12' collector

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Well FWIW, I'd like to see what the other intake looks like.
180 psi is OK but I'd like to see it around 200.
I'd love to see that things reaction to about a .236/.240 on a 108(or even a 106) and with a lowgear TF it shouldn't need the cam advanced.
1.50 headers are right but I'd like to see it's reaction to a 2.5" collector.

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Very useful information. This is the first cam I've tried but I'm working on second one. The only reason I went with the 109 was to gain some clearance. I had the 2.5 collector on the car and it was a tenth slower then the 3. No low gear in 904. Yet. Next time it's out. Also use 4.56 with 28 tire

Re: Christmas continues for MOPAR rsacers
 

Sam: You Really need a 275 low gear! They came in some of the
later 70s- 80s cars. When I put a spare trans in my 340 low comp.
stocker it went from 1.45 60s to 1.58 and would not fall out of a tree!
The difference should be pretty dramatic on your Duster.
I used to get them from a Transmission parts core shop in Vegas .

Bob Mazzolini Racing used to sell them by themselves years ago.
If you can not find one..........let me know and I will start looking for one
they are not expensive and probably a lot of Mopar Guys have some
laying around.

The next thing I would try to find is a Aluminum front Drum as they make
a good improvement for the money.

PM me if I can Help!