High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

Having an argument with a friend. I always thought that they were only available in the Chevy Performance Catalog...usually as a Bowtie block or something like that.

He says that some production-line blocks were high-nickel as well. Never heard of this...checked online...and the banter goes on and on...

Need the straight scoop..First WHAT is a high-nickel block? Isn't it really the percentage of (tin) in the cast-iron slurry at the foundry? Could the Bowtie or similar performance-catalog blocks have percentages of 10% or more?

Did regular cast blocks have a small percentage...(maybe 1, 2, or 3 %) anyway...and did GM adjust this... as needed...for production-line performance or Truck applications?

You machinists out there probably know...I hear these "hard" blocks are tough on cutting bits and stones....

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

Yes, there are high nickel content factory produced blocks. I believe they say 10 stamped on them somewhere. They'll correct me if I'm wrong. And possibly the 509 block. Someone else help out here.,

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

I was thinking heat treating or cooling times/rates determines the hardness and that the '010' and '010/020' were different molds. But not sure. Discussed this in a Chemistry class with a grad student that was very familiar with metalurgy over 25 years ago.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

Not sure about high-nickel, but the front area behind timing cover used to to have numbers relating to nickel content in the old prodution blocks as I recall...

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

Actually I'd be very suprised if GM used 'high nickel' in production blocks. I remember tearing down quite a few sbc's of 60's and 70's vintage out of crashed up cars in yards that had the 010 and 020 numbers in the castings...if that indeed correlated to high nickel content surely the cost to produce would be higher than using iron instead. Some of these blocks/engines were 307's and low performance 350 impalas and chevelles-4 door 2 barrel cars. No need to put expensive castings in those kinds of cars I would think.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

If I remeber right chevy had a high nickle 4in block in the late 70s early 80s the number was in how to build a small block chevy book in that era I think I still have that book somewhere. My brother ordered one back in the day and never did anything with it. It was over 500$ back then. The 721 chevy II block from 1964 was also supost to be high nickle the 283 block that could be borded to 4 in. Tom

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

I think if the percentage of nickel or tin was 10% or more the metal would no longer be 'cast iron'...it would be a different alloy.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

I was told that the 010/020 blocks were better blocks and higher nickel in them. I have one in the garage for years it's also 4 bolt mains.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

Edit: David Vizard says this in his book "Budget Building Max Performance Chevy Small Blocks:"

"The best blocks to get are the blocks that have a number 010 and 020 under the timing chain cover. These have 1% tin, and 2% nickel. The tin is used to help the metal flow better into the casting mold.

These blocks are the least prone to cracking. Also, because they pour more easily, they have the least problems with hot spots caused by porous metal. If you find a block that only has one number that's either a 010 or a 020, this means it has no additionally added tin, but does have one or two percent nickel."

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

I always heard, knew, was told that the 010 casting 4 inch bore 350 block was the starting place. When tearing it down and the timing cover and the cam gear were removed, the numbers 010 were visible to the right of the cam bearing boss, about a half inch high. If the number under that was 020, that was the block. They came in 4 and 2 bolt mains, in fact, the last one I had came out of my 71 El Camino. In fact, it was the original engine from that car, as the VIN matched the car. Now, having found a block, that doesn't mean you can just go hog wild. It has to be sonic tested. Core shift was all over the place back then, just because it had the optimal material doesn't mean the casting cores were in the right place. My block was filled, then line honed, bored, then power honed, dummy assembled, the deck height was determined, then disassembled and decked. I will say that it was 13 years from the time I built it in 1998 and blew it up in 2011. Rod failure to blame. I think that by the time you buy and open up several engine cores until you find one, then mag it, sonic test it, and finally have a good casting, you could have gotten the legal replacement Dart block, machined it as necessary, and had a better motor. The Dart block won't need to be filled, it is noticibly more heavy than a factory casting, but you would be time and money ahead doing that. Actually, the best OEM block I ever found was a 660 casting-four inch bore two bolt main large journal 327 casting from a 68 Chevy.It came up with no core shift, the cam and the lifters were in the right place, the mains were correctly centered, and it's in my wagon right now. It's the best 327 I've turned out yet. You don't always have to have the 010-020 casting to have a good motor.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

The older block had a 010 stamping.
Bob Lasko

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

The 010 blocks or the K-cap blocks have poor webbing design over the 010/020 blocks.

Most 010/020 block have the 1/8 inch pipe plug above the timing cover and some these blocks had the 2482 nodular iron 4 bolt center caps.

Like any GM block if its going to be used in a performance application it should be sonic tested before any work or cleaning is done.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

The 010 / 020 behind the timing cover blocks were the high nickel. Quite a few of them were in the 350 powered trucks - in Canada at least. The later versions had the oil galley tapped above the timing cover. Prior to these, the 509 blocks were the best and I believe from late 60's 327 and 350s. they were meater. kind of like the mid 60's 283 blocks with the deep oil filter pad. We used to have a wrecking yard and saw all versions of these over the years - but not as many as some would think. - or hope.

There are letters stamped on the oil pan rails by each cylinder that supposedly indicate how concentric the hole is. The 010/020 blocks had the least deviation of letters between the 8 cylinders - but then again, that may be an old wives tale.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

While going through some notes, I came across the 512 327 block. That's a service replacement block, cast after 1967. It's distinctive in that it has a screw on oil filter, like a 68 or newer SBC, and it is usually small journal.Tony Janes has one, and right next to the front cam bearing boss, are the numbers 010 020. They are kind of rare, but enough of them are out there that you should find one someplace.I also found out that some of those were large journal, so there is a starting place for a 350. Seems to me the 512 was intended to be a replacement for trucks, Corvettes, and performance applications.I guess it's pretty thick, as well.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

I have seen the same thing on 2 blocks they look like the 010/020 casting but small journal, took the one quart spin on filter, The main caps and the block were double tanged and it could have been line bored out to 2.641 and used a large journal main carnk and bearings.

Only one of the 2 were a good block once they were sonic tested.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

I looked around on the net and found some interesting comments about the 'high nickel' content of 010-020 sbc's.....found this at Nastryz28.com, written by a person who claims to work in a GM foundry making blocks, heads, and cranks-

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10896

Brian Berry wrote-

"I work at a GM foundry. We make engine blocks, heads & cranks.

The numbers you are talking about (010, 020) are only sand core identification numbers. The 010 is a side core for a small block chevy, and it does not guarantee that the block is a 4 bolt or not. Most were 4 bolt blocks, but some 2 bolts were built with 010 side cores, or whatever side core was available. The 010 designation has nothing to do with metallurgy (nickel content)".


Later in the thread he writes this'

"Each time we make a batch of iron, a 10 ton crane will move across the metal staging area and pick up certain metals and dump them into the cupola. Each batch is done this way, and the irom metalurgy between each batch can differ slightly. Certain iron batches are made for certain parts and heated to certain degrees. The only true way to tell the nickel content is by part number. But that alone is only a guideline, and cannot be relied on 100%. Most high nickel blocks will also have a brighter sheen after a chemical cleaning. It would be the same sheen if a standard block was shotblasted 2-3 times.

Iron properties will differ from each run. Some will be harder due to longer mold line time, and some are slightly harder due to a multi travel through the shot peening booth.

But don't be fooled that harder iron is better. GreyIron (blocks, heads) under a microscope look like a slivered chip, whereas nodular iron (cranks, carriers) look like perfectly round balls. Grey iron that is hard will easily crack. Grey iron that is soft will easily wear. Nickel blocks are nice to have, but they will also be subject to mold line time. In the end, it'just a brag to a select few if you have a nickel block."

Another member writes this-

"
"If 010 cast into the block has nothing to do with metalurgy then your post is worthy of being on Myth Busters . . .

It has been commonly accepted and published for a LONG time that 010 meant high nickel (1%) and 020 meant high tin (2%).

My 509 casting 400 has 010 cast under the timing chain cover -- are you saying this block was cast from the same mold as the 350 block I currently have in the car?"

To which Brian Berry responds-

"You need to understand how sand cores are created & assembled to have an idea of what I am talking about. The timing cover front slab core is a different sand core than the side slab cores or the rear slab core.

Each sand core has an identification number, so we can trace it back to the core number if there is a problem with the finished product. Because once the block has been poured, and mold line time has expired, the entire block mold goes through a shakeout process where the sand mold is destroyed and the iron block is extracted. Once this happens, all of the sand cores have been destroyed, and the numbers on each facet of the block is all we have left to trace identification.

Other identification areas are just inside the waterpump holes. You will see water jacket numbers there. You will also see numbers on the underside of the block, next to the first cam journal. This is the barrel core number. The large single digit number near the part number is the drag core pttern number. Alongside that, you might see CFD or GM-D, which means "central foundry Defiance, or GM-Defiance. SMCO means Saginaw metal casting operations.

Every facet of a block or head will have identification marks to tell me what particular core was used to create that particular part.

And as in your case, some cores are universal. Even all the big blocks & small blocks we make today use similar iron recipes. Some may have hotter iron batches such as the 3.8 cylinder head, but the ingredients are the same.... unless it's a bowtie run.

Hope this helps. "

Later in the thread Brian Berry writes this-

"When we pour iron, the only reference to what we are making is the last 3 digits of the part number. "We're making 781's today!" We never refer to any other identification such as core numbers. The iron blend is purely based on the casting part number.

Think about going out to buy a GM block. Try and ask the parts guy that you want a part number "xxx", BUT with a 010 side core or a 020 front core. He will look at you strangely, and then laugh at you, because the differences are indexed by part numbers only, not by core numbers. His parts book is indexed by part numbers only as well. GM indexes all the differences with their parts by different part numbers.

Once all the cores are screwed together to make a core package, the package assemblies can sit on shelves for days before they are placed in the mold for an iron pour. And... once all the core pieces are screwed together to make a core package, there is no possible way for us to see inside to verify what core numbers were used to make the core package.... Because of this, we cannot follow the myth that 010 ID's mean "high nickel", because it's impossible to view the 010 ID once the package is screwed together & shelved. The only ID we have is the part number."

Another member wrote-

"Brian, you are talking about the large "10" and 010 cast into the sides (and other areas)of the block.
The early (60's and 70's) had an identifier under the timing cover, roughly 1/2" tall, just left and below the cam bore "010" and or "020". THAT is the metalurgy identifiers of a percentage of added tin and nickle everyone here is talking about. I havent seen the small "010 / 020" under the timing cover of any block produced in the last 25+ years. Possibly this is a thing of decades gone by. But there are too many references from people directly involved with the development of the HP era motors for this to be a total fabrication.
Not saying I or anyone knows more than you, just that I wonder of were talking about the same small "010" and "010/020" that is only found under the timing cover, and usually a matching 010 or 010/020 is found on the back of the block (same 3/8' or 1/2" tall cast numbers) just above the starter mounting pad."

To which Brian Berry replied-

"What you wrote was how it was supposed to be. But once it was put through the system, engineering realized that their intent could not be efficiently tracked. So the plan was abandoned, but it would have been too costly to rework all the patterns in the core machines, so those were left alone.

When engineering originally developed the plan, they needed a way to identify the metallurgy after the block was poured, thus the fabled "stamp" But engineering soon realized that the same block part number could posess one of 3 different mettalurgical blends. Because of this, it was near impossible to trace or efficiently logistically locate castings from pourtime to end customer use, as well as service parts orders.

So it was abandoned, because with the original idea, you wouldn't be able to call any GM parts office & locate a "nickel 010 block", because there was not a specific part number associated with it. Parts are organized by part numbers, not core stamps.

Now, to straighten this out, they did change the casting part number to correspond with the metallurgical content. This is true for only older blocks (pre 71) Blocks after that just used the same sand cores as the older ones until pattern changes were made, which will give false hope to many.

Hinging on that, many cores were interchangeable. Today, error proofing measures have been installed, and it is impossible to assemble mismatched pieces without destroying a section of the core.

Processes were brutal years ago, and it was very common to grab the pallet of cores with the 010,020 stamps to keep the mold line running (even though the current run was not supposed to have the 010,020 stamps. The wost thing we could do, was to stop a mold line. If we did, the iron would cool, and we could freeze up the system with solidified iron. Always keep the mold line running! So, you cannot base your "nickel" block, solely on the 010 stamp on the timing face. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and cores have been switched in the past.

Today, most owners do not understand that the 010 on the side of the block has nothing to do what the metallurgical content is, or if it's a 4 bolt main.

Like I mentioned before, we have poured iron to what the part number is, not what the core stamps say. If I had 2 assembled core packages next to each other, you would not be able to tell if one had 010 on it, unless you destroyed & dissected it or poured iron into it & removed the iron to see. The one thing that is consistently 100% validated is the part number, which is part of the drag mold and is the seat for the upside down core package to rest in, before the cope is placed on the mold package, sealing it off.

In the end, if you have a 60's block with these stamps, there is a 95% chance that it is what you think it is. But it can be your luck that the 5% of mismatched core packages could be one of yours. If you have a 70's & up block, don't count on it, unless it's a bowtie (but only some bowties had different metallurgical qualities)

Hope that helps explain it."

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

I also found some interesting comments of a scientific nature about the 'high nickel' 010-020 claims on speedtalk. Here, a member actually tested a sample of metal from a 509 010-020 block and found no such 'high nickel' content-

Here is the thread -

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=1&t=20092

Interesting for sure.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

Like I said, the Dart legal replacement block starts looking better all the time. Hope to put mine back together this year.Best wishes, all.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

That SHP block is the way to go!!!

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

If anyone is interested I have a std bore 512 casting block dated jun 6 1962 for sale. This is a rare find anymore. $500 maybe able to deliver at the track.

Re: High-Nickel SBC Chevy blocks?
 

Thanks to all who responded...especially the "report" from the foundry! Been busy...I'll have to read this thread again....interesting data!