Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I spoke to Pat Cvengros today about a second letter that was sent from the nhra tech department concerning the rear wheelie bar notches. The letter said that we must correct the wheelie bar notches by August 28, 2013.

Mr. Cvengros and I had a lively discussion and during the course of the conversation he said that wheelie bars were not safety equipment that belonged on Stockers. He said that no one in the "company" believed wheelie bars were necessary for safety on Stockers. But, there was a blurb in the Dragster that specifically cited safety concerns when nhra approved wheelie bars for Stockers. I believe Bob Lang and Len Imbrogno were very supportive of approving them for Stockers.

Pat went on to say that we could change our suspensions to prevent wheelies. He could not explain what he meant by changing our suspensions and became a bit testy. Wheelie bars are a huge safety issue for me! Pat seems like an OK guy but he needs to go to more races.

Wonder if He would like to pay for the repairs after a Giant wheel stand !

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I can send him a bill for an oil pan

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Really makes you wonder how far removed the NHRA management has become from the people they represent. ( the racers ) Only goes to prove that if you don't know what you are talking about-------PUNT !:confused: Bruce, you handled that amazingly well.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

After a big drink of Maalox, I got out the Official Rule Book and looked under Section 7 Body, Fenders, It states that we can trim the leading and trailing edges of our fenders a maximum of 2 inches for tire clearance.

It would seem to me that they are making an allowance for the tires that they allow us to use, knowing that we have to use something that will not fit without modification.

I see no difference in allowing wheelie bars, they know that some cars will require modifications to make them fit.

I guess that would be too simple.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

If your post is accurate as to your conversation I would second the statement that you handled yourself with great restraint! I'm not sure I could have done the same. Perhaps Mr. Cvengros should think about the fact that a statement such as his opens the NHRA and himself up to a huge lawsuit if a negative situation takes place.
Mr Cvengros, if you are reading this, let me just say.... You Are A Moron! JIm


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Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Yup, I saw that one at Bowling Green.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

For me it was a lively discussion but Pat seemed to think I was badgering him when I simply asked for explanations. Right off the bat, he said wheelie bars were not used by Stockers for safety reasons. And no one in nhra believes we use them for safety reasons. Why would we spend the money and time to install them if not for safety reasons? BTW, he did not answer a single question and was unhappy with me when the conversation ended. I guess he was unhappy because I needed real answers. These guys are used to one way conversations and quickly become testy when asked to explain their reasoning on the issues. That behavior does nothing for the sport.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I just don't understand why 1000 hp cars that run in the 8's at 155 mph plus don't need wheelie bars? I hope that this issue gets resolved... S.Bell

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Why do they think we use them, if not to keep tearing up the car and keeping it going straight? I can have them in SS, but they ain't on there 'cause I think they're purty.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I was at atco in new jersey when Jim Conte in a stocker went up and over. I was pitted 4 trailers from him. when i spoke with him after he said his next car would have wheelie bars. and it does. NHRA WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

FACT!

When Bob DeArmand (sp) was chasing the nines he had an incident that as I recall punctured the gas tank along with other damage....as I recall Imbrogno and NHRA then called it a safety issue

NHRA mandates parachutes and can't see the related safety issue of bars? Their recent calls like 69 Camaro hoods and others are insane power plays from ivory tower sycophants while the tower burns

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

It's because most of them are programed to leave soft and then increase power down track. Most of them 60' @ 1.35 or so. Otherwise there is no way a 1200 hp Cobra Jet can run on a 9" tire. Put a 12" tire on then and leave wide open and watch them run 7.90. Jim


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Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I don't use wheelie bars on stockers or ss'ers as a suspension tuning device. That is what weight and shock adjustments are for. However, with changing track conditions and air they frequently save my car from excessive damage from uncontrolled wheel stands. There probably isn't anyone out there that hasn't spun in a time shot and loosened everything up only to go to the line a few hours later when the track started to come around and hooked and went way too high. Wheelie bars save cars, plain and simple. Comes back to the same old thing: These people making these rules and decisions couldn't build a sbc, ford or Chrysler v-8 that would get them back and forth to work, much less a competitive race car.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Because those cars are entirely different from class cars.

They use gasoline, and the same piece of asphalt. For the most part, that is where any similarity ends.

That is exactly what most people fail to understand about Stock Eliminator and Super Stock. Having to work within a very specific and strict set of rules and constraints forces you to do things entirely different than 99% of all of the other drag racers. It also forces the cars to work completely different.

For example, we have around 600HP, in order to go fairly quick at 3700#, we have a lot of gear, and a lot of converter. We get our ET in the first 1/8 mile. We have a 9" slick, and weight distribution is restricted. As such, in order to get all of that to the track with a 9" slick, we have to have massive and instant weight transfer. That is exactly what causes big wheelstands. That and torque. We make torque, and we multiply the crap out of it. Right there on the starting line.


Sure Pat, we can adjust the suspension to prevent the cars from doing big wheel stands. Then when the track prep sucks dog turds, we can't get the cars to hook at all.

Tell you what NHRA, you prep the track where I can count on it to hook, every, single, time, and I'll tie the front end down more.

Honestly, I don't like wheelie bars, I'd love it if we did not need them. The fact is, they're just something else to get in the way, and something else to be bothered with. But the rules and constraints force us to set the cars up in such a manner that wheelie bars are an absolutely essential safety device.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I beg to differ........ Outlaw 8.5. ( 26" tall tire, 8.5" wide. Or in this case, the nova was on a DOT legal 235/60/15 Drag Radial. NO WHEELIE BARS!!! Short times are well below 1.35.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVD7LWVGYHY"]Ryan 'Toaster' Jones running 5.00 @ 150+ on 235/60/15 Mickey Thompson Drag Radials - YouTube[/ame]

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Congratulations on proving Jim correct. We run around 1.34 to 1.35 60' times running 10.1X at 129MPH. The car runs 6.35 or so in the 1/8 mile. So he's going 1.35 seconds quicker in the 1/8 mile, on a similar 60' time. Which is EXACTLY the point Jim was making. A car that runs 5.0 @ 150 in the 1/8 mile should be going around 1.20 60' times.

You said "well below" 1.35. Define "well below".

Oh, was that Chevy II using leaf springs and traction bars? How about a stock front clip with near stock front suspension? And around 51-55% of its weight on the front tires?

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Must be one of those newly approved, tubbed, four link, squat, turbo Deuces for Stock. Of course it has nothing to do with wheelie bars on Stockers.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I think the best argument for wheelie bars in stock is that no one really uses them right now unless they really have concern for safety or at least damage to their car.

We tried them on our Nova when they were first allowed and found no need afterall. Really, after looking at it, I figured I would hit the rear bumper before any real bad things would happen.
On Bob Gipson's 65 Corvette, we put them on when the 396 went in. I think you could flip that car over without them if you miscued on the chassis set up. I feel a lot better having them on that car.

Honestly, the things that NHRA choses to draw the line on makes you shake your head when they allow lame factors and bogus cars into the stock guide without batting an eye.

In the recent times, the National event track prep has been an issue for many, you would think that NHRA would want to support any allowance that would help racers tune theirway out of that mess safely.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

1.18 -1.21 on the car I crew on. 3500lbs...........Leaf Springs........Bolt on replacement style front clip. 52-53% on the nose.

Yes, these cars are different from Stockers.........But it can be done safely without sissy sticks.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

No, it can't. I'd take them off if I could.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Yes, these cars are different from Stockers.........But it can be done safely without sissy sticks.[/QUOTE]

And what you are missing is that if you'd put slicks on instead of the drag radials, cranked the rpm up on the launch and made some serious starting line power (as apposed to launching at a low rpm, or low timing to reduce power) a setup that would most likely run quicker than the 5.00 you've posted, you'd need wheelie bars. You may be the quickest in your class, that is limited in tire spec, but if there was no tire spec, you'd hit it harder out of the hole like we do and scape your bumper on good tracks, like we can.

My stocker has road a 300 foot wheel stand right verticle, my super stock has hit the bars so hard the rear wheels came of the ground. my 1967 1000hp super charged chevelle pulls 1.5' wheelies, no bars.

...i think yellow bullet has forum where you may make more sense!

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Alan,
Notch is switching things around a bit. The toaster car turns a 1.28 sixty foot while running a 3.50 rear gear and a 1.80 first gear in a glide. And uses coil over ladder bars and it still appears to be turning the tires. Now he wants to talk about a car he is crewing. He's just out here jacking around. Nothing he has posted has anything to do with Stockers.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

You can't compare a small tire, no wheelie bar, power adder car to a Stocker or Superstocker. Two completely different cars with two completely different setups.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

If NHRA expects stockers to tune with the suspension then they shouldn't prohibit travel limiters on the front end. Don't say to tune with suspension and then take away a major tuning capability, dumb-asses.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

It's a sad commentary. Under Compton the tech department has been reduced to picking on petty things like wheelie bar notches.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

we need another wally parks.we need people with drag racing know how not ones that never raced.people like lynwood dupre,steve gibbs,to say the least.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

This original discussion was about "Stockers" and wheelie bars correct? I'm not sure how SS cars are now in the mix here??? My posts were directed at the "1000HP to 1200HP" car comment. Yes, what the 8.5 guys are doing is WAY different, but a Stock Eliminator car CAN Safely run without wheelie bars if NHRA were to instruct you all to remove them. I'm not trying to stir the pot here, just putting in my 2 cents. Carry on.....

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

The key word missing from the vocabulary of NHRA, is LOGIC!!! Without this, all discussions will seem challenged by incompetence.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I won't run my car without them !

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Maybe you're K/S can run without them but mine ? ? I'm not willing to take that chance ....And as you can clearly see they are doing their job properly .

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

And you are within the rules to use them Jack.....without notches.

I would bet that all of you running bars now would find a way to make the car launch safely without bars if you had to. Just sayin......

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Shawn - Seems to me you're against anyone having them on their car - why is that ? And BTW , I'll bet the ranch the notches will be back .......................and i'm just sayin' .

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Might be time for Ford, GM and MOPAR to release rear bumper covers with notches for those cars. They could say they are for tail pipes.

Notice the experts have 1320 in their screen names? LOL

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Possibly, but some may slow down.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

[QUOTE=Ed Wright;387186

Notice the experts have 1320 in their screen names? LOL[/QUOTE]

Ed - that is a trend lately ..........

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I'm not against them per say, I just was calling out the folks earlier who went on about 1000+HP car scenario, bla, bla, bla. Having spent some time now in the Heads-Up world outside of Stockers, my views on wheelie bars have changed I guess. No one wants to hear, or discuss that here though. If you are allowed to use them, then you can set the car up one way. If you are forced to do without them, you have to adapt and change the suspension & ballast, etc. on the car. Ride height can also come into play if the car is so low that you are notching the rear valance. < (Just an option) The notching could also be avoided by changing the wheelie bar design. These are all things that everyone here or that runs a high letter Stocker is smart enough to figure out if it came down to a "must comply" ruling. A rule specification seems to be in order and as you hinted, it may already be in the works. I too have had my dealings with the way the rules are written, and have had a few "dead end" discussions with Pat and others, but in the end, I ended up making things work within the "rules", and suggesting clarification in the good book.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

I never claimed to be an "expert" Mr. Super Stocker...... just adding in a little outside the box thinking.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Some of the best shops in the country are building these Stockers. And they are running wheelie bars on them and you're the only one out here with your coulda, shoulda, woulda stuff. Try building and racing a high letter Stocker today before coming out here and telling us how we should do it.

Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!
 

Your $0.02 is WAY over priced.