Norwalk SG DQ
 

Jon Pellicane was DQ'ed for excessive braking in R4 of SG against Ray Connolly. Does anyone know how bad the excessive braking was.
Dan Foley
SC4698

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Some stories has it he spun it 4 times ?

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Pretty easy to label that as excessive......

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Probably not as hard as you hit em Mr. Dan " don't give up" Foley. lol

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

lmao.....................

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Well ! Good for NHRA !
Excessive braking is a big issue and needs to be addressed on a regular basis.
If you kill it on the breaks and hit me I promise you the beating of your Stupid Life.
How Dumb can someone be hitting the breaks that hard to smokem up. If your going that fast learn to dial your Car and keep others Safe in the meantime.

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I haven't spoken with Jon ...but he runs a .90 series in WNY and I have never known him to be hard on the binders. I wonder if something locked up on the car??

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I cannot agree with you more Chuck. If more would be DQ'd then maybe it would make more racers dial there cars honest…

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

How would you determine excessive braking, and how would you police it. I have seen it done for years, some racers don't want to jeporadize themselves, and race with out getting on the brakes. Others do it, and that is how they race. I am with Chuck, about what would happen after the fact. But if it ever happened to me, I would be done, and just happy to survive. Remember seeing a photo of a super gas going through the lights and smoke coming off his tires, a couple of years ago, and no one said it was excessive. I think it depends on who you are, and what you get away with.

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

What do they consider excessive? I would say just to be safe that any time, any of your tires stop turning from 60 ft prior to, and 60 ft after the finish line stripe. And allow anyone's finish line video to confirm said infraction as long as it's prior to the next round. Just get to an Official to confirm that the incident is under official review. If you get caught, they sit you down for the season. It's a little harsh but if you want to fix it.....fix it! Get this under control so someone does'nt have to quit racing because they destroyed their car or killed themselves. I f you can throw someone out for a year for a few thou on the crankshaft or heads etc.....you should have no problem tossing them for a dangerous safety infraction at 100 MPH

Wade Mahaffey

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I agree. It is something that it seems that they pick and choose when to enforce it. I was at Belle Rose for the divisional and watched our current world champ roll smoke off of the tires and nothing said about it and I was still in the staging lanes when I saw it so I can promise you the starter and the people in the tower should have seen it as well, or they aren't paying attention to the things they should be. The pic that was mentioned earlier was also taken at Belle Rose a few years ago, and yes, he should have been disqualified as well. A rule is a rule, but some will do anything to try and turn on a win light. I'm with Chuck on the fact that if you stuff your car into mine because of excessive braking, you better have a lot of cash in your pocket or it won't be pretty. I may not have the nicest stuff out there, but I work for everything that I have and don't need it taken from me because of stupidity
Chuck

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I have been reading this site for a long time, but this is my first post. I just finished my burn out when I saw the car in the left lane at the finish line go up in smoke and shoot to the right lane and then back to his lane. I don't know Jon, but I was asked earlier in the day if I knew why is mph was so slow. Looked to me Ray Connolly was lucky to still have a race car.

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I'm not dumping on Jon- hell I don't even know him and I'm sure he has learned a valuable Lesson. I only dump on people I know !
We've all hit the brakes and whomped to death trying to salvage a win, but safety always comes first. Perhaps the rule should be re-written with more defination like if I'm DQ"d in one class then I should be DQ'd for the event in other classes I run too.
Reading the rule- it's ok to lockem up and smokem as long as I stay between the lines.

>> From the NHRA Ruelbook, under the Race Procedures Section:

"Anytime it has been judged that excessive braking has resulted in loss of control that results in contact with the guardrail and/or light fixtures or crossing the center boundary lines, including past the finish line, the contestant will be disqualified."

This rule applies to heads-up as well as dial-in or index classes.

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I will agree with you Chuck Wescott, on everything but one statement you made and that is "we have all done it". I have never braked to win a race, and I never will. Maybe I am just chicken, or don't want to win bad enough. That may be a reason that I am not a contender. I whop the throttle and let off, but braking, going 140 + and trying to see the finish line and you opponent coming up on you like crazy. It is not worth it. Oh by the way, my brake lights actually work on my car, when you hit the brakes, the brake lights come on. And all my brake lights work. I am not saying any body elses does, or does not, I just am not in the position to see them, cause I am usually ahead 200 feet from the finish line.
Steve Williams 351N S/G The Blue Probe

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Steve, That is only because you swap feet 5 times get the probe down the track and you are too tired to hit the brakes!!!! LOL

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Ron,
That's some funny *hit ! Is he still pulling gears in S/Gas ?
Hell I coudn't hit the brakes either if I was doing all that. Best I can do is hit the tree and hang on for the ride, isn't that what it's all about ?

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I would be curious to hear from racers who have had success in a category that involves a "breakout" that have NEVER hit the brakes on at least one occasion.I have to believe the percentage is small.

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Like I said on another site, I think this could be policed by watching the amout of mph being killed.... ....

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

In the essence of fair reporting, I was at the finish line for said world champ tire smokin round at belle rose. I'm not sure if it was the divisional or the sports national either. I remember thinking that he did not jump on them hard when he went through and was definitely not excessive, but it did smoke them. It happened to him at both the national and divisional at belle rose. I have seen many other cars smoke at belle rose in various classes. I just think it is one of those places that generates tire smoke at the finish line. Just go look at the picture in the bar of Jeff hefler and one of the Emmons, then you'll see smoke. It's a weird phenomenon at that track.

Austin Williams
464Q S/C STK

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Glad to see you here. I was pitted next to you at INDY a few years ago......I thought, Man there are alot of shift levers in there for SG car........LMAO.

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Rick,

You'd never be able to police the amount of speed killed unless you also added qualifying, AND gave some distinct advantage to qualifying higher. The good guys would just start running their time runs to 1000', lifting there, and as such posting artificially low speeds. As you know, you can easily predict what your quarter mile time will be from the 1000' time. So, there'd really be no way to accurately determine how much speed has been killed.

I know Jon and race in his series. I saw him this past weekend and spoke to him about the incident. He feels bad it happened, and knows how lucky he was to have not hurt anyone, or damaged anything. He made a mistake (which I made myself at that same track many years ago), and is using it as a learning experience.

All that said, phenomenon or not, my personal opinion is that if smoke comes off the tires, you should be DQ'd, end of story. Stabbing the brakes at the top end is a very dangerous tactic, and simply not worth the risk. I'd much rather lose and come back to race another day, than have all my stuff junked, or worse get to have an extended stay in the hospital.

But, until NHRA starts enforcing the rule like that, people are going to continue to lock up the brakes at the finish line. NHRA's rule now is stupid...basically it states, "If you crash, you're out." Perfect.

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Jason, I'm not so sure if you would need qualifing...... I just think if there was a rule that you you are gulity of dumping let's say 20 mph or more from tt runs or elem runs .... your out of here , just knowing what one is trying to do. I'm thinking the "fear factor" of getting bounced..... may cause guys to think twice before bombing !

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

It is enforced so randomly that it's a joke. Slate Cummings in round 1 of stock at the Chicago national event was dead sideways at the finish line. Al Rienhardt even remarked on the pa it was so bad, but no one did squat. I have contended for years that the rules that are in place need to be enforced. From Brad Plourd hanging out of the cage to Sherman Adcock smoking all 4 tires across the finish line. TJ Coughlin crashing at the Gators, or Ron Erks crash in Gainesvile as well years back. Until we kill a couple of folks they won't do Jack Squat.

But I am with Chuck, you hurt me or one of my many friends, you might wanna keep on going!

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Hey Jeffery !
Read the rule- It's Stupid as it is written ! Hit the Brakes smokem up and just don't hit anything and cross the Center Line- Your free to next round, Now that's BS--- and as far as I'm concerned anyone that get's DQed' is done for the event in All classes they Run !- No Exceptions Period- ! Sponsors or Not ! I saw TJ Hit the brakes- lock em up and crash- fortunately it was only Him and I'm sure He learned a valuable lesson. But He should of been disqualified for the rest of the event in all classes for displaying stupidity .

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

It's Jeffrey, seriously the intent of the rule needs to be enforced. I was scared for TJ. Glad that all was well.

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Norwalk is definitely another one of those places that generates tire smoke. I am not proud to admit that I have locked em up 3 times in my 13 year racing career, every time at Norwalk. I bracket race there frequently and believe that something about the place makes it easier to lock em up there. I have never done it anywhere else.

I agree with what is being said here....you lock em up, you should be disqualified from the event.......NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Kinda hard to "hang out of the cage" with a Hybrid head and neck restraint on....

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I don't beli eve anyone will "intentionally" lock up their breaks to the point of smoking the tires. However, with all the adrenaline going on at the finish line, it's easy to apply too much pressure and then you are sideways. It doesn't matter if it is due to the track surface or any other condition. If your tires are smoking then you hit the brakes too hard. You should be DQ'd. It happened with my opponent in Pomona 2007. Guy Aquayo, bombed the brakes and crashed behind me at the Winternationals (in a borrowed car). Because he crash after the finish line he was declared the winner. Now that rule has changed. If the rule was enforced, and a few racers were tossed and possible suspensions, it would almost start to police itself for the fear of being on the wrong side of the issue.
Race hard not stupid...........

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I also don't think you can use speed as the determining factor for DQing someone. Below is from this years Sportsnationals. Because of an issue I had on the starting line, my speed was down 31 mph. w/o hitting the brakes. There has to be someone (knowledgeable) watching the race, preferably from 1000' or more down track. Back in the day, SoCal ProGas (where SG was born) used to have a racer watch the finish line to decide excessive braking issues.
BTW........Sorry Bart.





Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
4698 Dan Foley 403V Bart Nelson
E5 ****WINNER**** 0.035 9.376 145.66 0.012 9.455 143.64
S/C Index: 8.90 (+/-): 0.476 S/C Index: 8.90 (+/-): 0.555

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

It was said somewhere earler, that they do have guys watching ........ but if no smoke or no crash good to go. The clocks could be the desiding factor for these guys .

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

I will think seriously about putting in a hand brake that is functions on the rear wheels this winter. Use a 3/4 inch master cylinder, and make it so that you can't lock up the rear brakes, and see what happens. Might be fun, and then use some timers to help me know when. Heck, I not doing any good any way. I would probably use it in practice runs to see how well it works. I don't think the racers that brake, practice enough. They only do it in eliminations. I tried using the parachute, but it was to slow. Of course the brake lights won't be hooked up to the brake lights. Hmmm

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

So this is where the rabble hangs out!

Dan I agree with you 100%. Make smoke, hit the gate. I have never stabbed brakes at the finish, hmmm maybe thats why I suck at this? I remember the Belle Rose pictures from a couple years back. The racer in question was concerned because the chatter on the web about the whole deal looked bad for his sponsors. I understand that. But the pictures don't lie.

I saw a SC dragster go barrel rolling over the wall in Reynolds a few years ago. He was about the 3rd pair out Sunday morning. The car broke up like a fuel crash you see on TV. He lived, but it was very sobering to see.
If hurting yourself isn't a concern to you, what about your friend/ fellow racer in the other lane? I don't want stupid on my part to result in my fellow racer being hurt...or worse. But hey, that's just me.


And Bart, you should be DQ'd on general principles...I'll come up with a reason later.LOL

RIP

Re: Norwalk SG DQ
 

Jon told me he was looking back for ray and ended up near the center line,steered away from it and hit the brakes a little to hard and all most rolled it! Lance,S/G 1310:confused: