Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

How long does it usually take to seat the rings on a fresh engine? How long before going to a synthetic oil? Is a break in oil necessary for a used roller cam? What kind of oil should I use for break in? I was going to use 15w40 with 2 bottles of zinc. How long should I run it with that oil before switching to the Brad Penn semi-synthetic? Thanks in advance. Dan

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

I would say that all depends on the type of ring. Best to ask the ring manufacturer.
I just got my thing together started it up. held it at 2000 to 2500 in neutral for 20 minutes.
Let it cool naturally to amient temp, then repeat. I did this 4 times. And I just drained the dino oil out and put in synthetic Going to race this weekend.
This is with a moly top, and a cast second ring and a fine cylinder bore.

My leakdowns have always been 5% or better.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

It really depends on how the block was prepped. If it was plate honed with a good hone the rings should seat pretty quick,

When you have cylinder like these I would a\say they will never seat properly
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j459/cegaithe/Problems%20in%20the%20406/2013052295154845_zps4d80e12f.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/...psea76f04c.jpg
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/...pse2194c56.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27.../patman006.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...CKS/blowby.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...CKS/glazed.jpg

A leak down test will tell you if the rings have seated.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Use a break in oil with high as in 1200-1400PPM ZDDP,Manditory with flat tappets and a good idea with rollers ,Use an oil with little or no Molylebdenum as it will impead ring seal on break in and too much moly will cause needle bearings to glide instead of roll making flat spots with high spring pressure aggressive cams.Best way to break in new engine is on dyno with blowby meter.No synthetic till after break in.Bill C.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Carl, think you're saying a good cross-hatch pattern is still recommended...

Doesn't the last photo come close?

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Cross hatch appears to be good but the cylinder distortion the ring seal will be poor which will cause blow by issues. You have to have round cylinders once the heads are bolter on, Proper cross hatch and use proper abrasives and a good honing machine is a plus to achieve good ring seal.

Here is a link to look over

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/show...e+plate+honing

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Nope--look at the top of the cylinder where the top rings rides--blow by. Yep there is a cross hatch and it dont look bad but cylinder is out of round. Just my pinion. Got two 400 here now, both supposedly plate hones. Put plates, on made 3 passes and I can see every bolt just like that one. Put doal bore gage in and immediately called the customers. A tu--d is a tu---d no matter how much you polish it(or Hone)
reed

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

I've had excellent results with a number of engines using Brad Penn 30 wt. break-in oil. Engine has Speed Pro low tension moly rings. New or freshened up engine has the 30 wt. oil in it along with a K&N filter when I pick it up. Engine is run while setting timing, valves etc. Leave oil in for the first time at the track. I make at least one easier pass, then race it that day with the break-in oil in the engine. When home I change oil and filter. I use 10W30 Brad Penn oil since my engine is clearanced properly for 10W30, and WIX racing filters. I usually change oil and filter after about 20 passes. The oil still looks good when change it. It could probably be left in but I don't. Engine is sealed up so nice I don't need to add oil between race weekends.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

I have become a real believer in the Gibbs BR break in oil. I would not start a new engine without it. Power levels and ring seal stabilize within 2-4 pulls on the Dyno. Engine disassembly after Dyno break-in looks like the engine has never been run. I also like the Gibbs engine assembly lubricants and see them in many of the high end engine builders assembly rooms that I visit.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Now, how the crap can we believe what you say---ya work for Ford, a drag racer duing roundy round, and driving a MoPar. Being that scrwed up, I wouldnt let u in my shop. HeHeHe Oh bye the way, I totally use and believe In Joe Gibbs oil and assembly. The assembly lube does not blind a filter and I have found several assm. lube that will blind certain filters. Best I have found on the dyno.
Reed

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

The best thing you can do after getting the proper hone (an art in itself) is to apply the Total Seal paste that you burnish to the cylinder walls. I can't find it on their website but it was developed by my engine builder, Bud Yancer of MACH Development. It is sold and marketed (?) by total seal. After that, Gibbs break-in oil. With anything coming out of that shop, leak down after dyno break in should be around 1%. And that's using gapped rings.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Summit has it...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tsr-qs

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

I don't think any break in oil is going aid in sealing these rings.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

400 blocks are very touchy about the hone & plate procedure to get the bores right.
I agree with you Carl. I spend more time on 400 blocks than any other type of block that comes through my shop.
The procedure (if the pictures are right) for the hone job needs to change to get good ring seal. The studs need to be installed with the torque plate instead of bolts. There is a totally diffrent load put on the block with stud than bolts. You can see bore distortion and leakage in the original pictures of the bore. The distortion is all different down about 1/12 to 2 inches. Above that bolt and studs pull on the bore a different way. I can't tell if there is a gasket under the plate. For the best results they need to use the same type gasket that will be used when the engine is assembled. They are wasting time and effort to use a plate with bolts and then add studs when they do the assembly.
Might as well hone it with out a plate installed. You will get about the same results and leakage.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Adger--Carl
I took a 400 block that was no good. I only worked with the inward cylinder so I could learn. I used bolts on one side and studs on the other sides. Both sides I used a torque plate. Both sides ended up shrinking the bore around the threads. The studs moved the block in more but not as much as I first thought. I was trying to determine which would be better if customer did not know what they were going to do (bolt or studs). As yall said, there was no best. But I was surprised to find that there was not as much difference with or without the gasket. Did yall find the same thing???? but you have to have the torque plate.
reed

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

I'm sure that is what you found, but you if you had moved down about 11/2 " below the studs that is where the "real difference" is seen. Studs apply more torque load to the actual structure they are installed in than bolts. The wrinkle that always comes in a bore is way different with studs. What you did was see the difference in the movement in the thread pitch area. That is the tread of the block trying to separate from the thread of the bolt or stud. Since both thread pitches are the same the only difference is the applied torque load. That can be different because of the fine thread of the stud's nut and the bolt with no nut with a fine pitch.
Look in the picture about 2 " below the deck. See where the combustion gasses have been leaking past. That is where the real leakage usually happens. There is a very slight wrinkle in the cylinder there. Its location & size in each cylinder will vary due to the wall thickness/strength of the wall. This wrinkle is also the reason that one should use the same length bolts in a stress plate as what comes through the head you are using. It is real hard to measure with a dial bore gauge because you assume that the point across the bore is straight. I had a buddy that was in Engineering school with me that went on to be a bridge structural engineer. If I want to talk about bolts and studs I had better have atleast an afternoon to spend listening to him. If you are spending the effort to do a good job I think it is best to do the bore and hone with the fasteners in the torque plate installed just like you are going to use in final assembly.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Adger is probably correct. However, I have had blocks honed with studs, put together with bolts, and blocks honed with bolts, put together with studs, and not seen any leak down difference, or performance difference. That being said, he's always used the proper gasket, even torqued the oil pump down. And recommends you use the same fasteners he torques with. That being Al Parker. He has done a 283 block so well, it had zero leak down. I mean ZERO, all 8 holes. I do notice some stock blocks, not all, show the imprint of the studs, or bolts in the wall after tear down. On our last block done, a small bore bowtie, we looked at the computer graphs, and seen we had 20.39 inches of vac on a wet sump.

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Great conversation all!

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

On OEM block its best to hone using the same gasket and Hardware to used in the end build, I have seen where using a stock replacement gasket 7733PT-2 and going to a 1003 Felpro gasket will change the bore dimension at the top of the cylinder.

OEM blocks are pretty frail compared to a Bowtie or Dart block

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

one other thing I have'nt saw anyone mention is that your torque plate needs to be close to same bore as block,Mike @ BHJ recommended within .060'',I learned this after I did my 305 the first time and used 350 plates when I tore down first time looked like had'nt had used torque plates.
Alot of people don't realize how much a stock block changes when heads are torqued in,most cases you hone with torque plates then remove them and go back and recheck cylinder bore w/ bore gauge cylinders are screwed up,reinstall plates and torque they go back like they were when you honed them.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Mike
One of the things that I have learned to look at with a torque plate is too make sure that the gasket fire ring is completely clamped by the torque plate. Many times I have run a gasket as close to the bore size as possible to gain compression. If the head clamps the gasket, then the torque plate must clamp the gasket. You will be surprised at how many do not look. Lay the gasket on the block, then flip over the torque plate and lay the gasket on it. You might be surprised, crap you might even shoooocked.
reed

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

Dan, I run a seal power moly top ring in my 350/455 Buick stocker motors. On a freshen-up[rehone,new rings and bearing], I use 30w oil Valvoline,castrol ,etc.with 16oz of Lucas break-in lube. I run the motor in the driveway for 5 or 10 minutes or one heat cycle, I set the timing and check for leaks,then check valve lash,etc. Off to the Dragstrip, I make 5 passes on break-in mix, Then change oil and filter to 0w20 Mobil 1 or Castrol 5w20 synthetic. JKeihn3954

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

I was told years ago,engines broke in fast run fast,we rebuild diesels engines at work,we fire them up.idle a few min,then take them on road test

Re: Engine break in and seating the rings????
 

One of the biggest things I have found is don't let it sit and idle before running it hard.