New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Horsepower adjustments following the Chevrolet Performance U.S. Nationals


As the result of runs under the Automatic Horsepower Factoring System (AHFS) 1.20-second under policy at the Chevrolet Performance U.S. Nationals, the following changes have been made.



The horsepower rating for 1978 Ford Mustang II, entries with the 302 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 139 currently rated at 139 has been increased by sixteen horsepower, to 155 horsepower; for Stock Eliminator.



The horsepower rating for 2010 Ford Mustang Cobra Jet, entries with the 330 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 500 currently rated at 609, has been increased by twenty six horsepower, to 636 horsepower; for Super Stock Eliminator.



The horsepower rating for 2012 Ford Mustang Cobra Jet, entries with the 330 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 510 currently rated at 588, has been increased by twenty horsepower, to 608 horsepower; for Super Stock Eliminator



NHRA's 2013 Automatic Horsepower Factoring System outlines that any run of 1.20-seconds or more under the index will receive an immediate index decrease or horsepower increase. These changes are effective Sep. 3, 2013.

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Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

so let's refresh,
8/7/13, HP correction adjustment announced, including 72-82 302 FFFords.
8/9/13, HP correction adjustment reconsideration, including 72-82 302 FFFords.
9/4/13, HP adjustments after Indy, including 78 302 FFFord.

To recap, on 8/7 the 78 302 FFFord( current R/S and T/S National Record Holder AND fastest run by a Stocker so far in 2013 as per Nitro Joes) receives a HP reduction from 162 to 139(23HP!!!).
On 8/9 the same FFFord has it's 23 HP reduction rescinded as per AHFS and Tech Department rethink.
On 9/4 the same FFFord qualifies #1 at Indy but in U/S as it's HP reduction that was rescinded before Indy was re-recinded at Indy(???) and it's 162 factor that was 139 HP before it was 162 HP is NOW 155 HP based on 139 HP??

While I'm on the subject, can anybody explain the Buick screw-up from Indy or the AMC parts that NHRA removed from the guide but they're still allowed to use?

Dear NHRA, I love this sport but I can no longer trust your Blueprint Specs or your Classification Guide and that is very troubleing to me.
You have a "loose cannon" running around the "Ivory Tower" doing whatever seems to suit him without any consideration for rules or how this "loose cannons" actions affects the NHRAs Racers and dues paying Members. Please fix this.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

The bottom of the 78 Mustang section in the class guide is signed 9-3-13 PC. Does that mean PC is the "loose cannon" you referred to?

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

If the shoe fits.......

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

I do not think that the 72 to 82 Fords are going to go back. They have been there to long and have been run at a national meet at the lower horsepower. The guide was never changed, even after all the complaints. The guide trumps any thing else. I would say to NHRA you made a mistake leave it there but do not do it again.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

"While I'm on the subject, can anybody explain the Buick screw-up from Indy or the AMC parts that NHRA removed from the guide but they're still allowed to use?"

What happened with a Buick ? did not hear about that one

The AMC guys get to use the parts until the end of the year is what I heard ,,True ?

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Tony, you are mistaken.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

People have opinions, I stand my mine.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

why don't the factory shoot out cars get hp.they are racing in stock .qualifying at the top,they where on the ladder,running in eliminations.going 1.20 plus under.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

The Factory shoot out cars do not have a class that is in the guide. Seems to be an Indy only class.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

I think what Kelly is trying to say is this isn't fair to the rest of the stock eliminator field. Either get them out of stock or classify them and make them play by the same rules as the rest of stock eliminator. Did I get it right, Tony?

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

I meant to say, did I get it right, Kelly?

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

just wondering if the Factory shootout classes will stay now so the new mustangs still have a home outlet in Stock Eliminator? And I'll go back to my take, i still feel the new cars need their own classes like what was done many moons ago with the fuel injected classes. Just my 2 cents.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

This is what I posted last week.

"Makes no sense to me. If you were not qualifying for a field I could see it but, how is it anywhere close to fair when your taking 128 car field. Bunch of BS"

Still think it's total BS and needs to stop.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

dear nhra...

REALLY with 60 years of experience, and a pretty good playbook written by Farmer THIS is the best you can do in administering the rules in stock (and SS) ??

as a 40 year member i cannot ever remember a time that i could not at least vaguely understand the reasons for any change like em or not, much less even have a clue as to WHY changes are being made... and at the sole descretion of one individual who has no class racing technical expertise.

for 40 years i have paid my dues and entrusted NHRA to be good shepherds of and maintain the integrity of my class >>> im pretty sure i have been screwed.

please consider the impact this individuals radical changes are having on our class and your organization, and if you dont care about that, how about the impact it may have on YOUR bottom line / salaries in the future.

i am sure FFFORD was thrilled they spent millions on bringing a herd of COBRA JET MUSTANGS to indy only to have a 30 year old p.o.s. mustang ii be #1 qualifier... not one they are selling today... way to go pat c !!!!!!!!!

captain jack

oh yeah, another question... WHO's idea was it to circumvent the almighty AHFS with the BS "factory we can go as fast as we want and not get hit shootout" classes ????
if you run it in stock eliminator it runs under stock rules > get busy and pass out some HP to those millionaires ...they earned it !!!!!!!

BILLY NEES for compton's job !!!

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

I just checked the classification guide. Only the stick 302 is at 155, the autos are still at 139. What a deal!!

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

I was planning on taking the plunge this winter & building a stocker, G or F. the car is done.just need to finish a motor & trans. Currently I race Nss,or hemi shootout stuff.I dont understand what is going on in the NHRA? The rules change by the week.I allways thought it would be like a dream come true to race in it,You know, You hear all the stories, know a bunch of guys that run in it. Hear how challenging it is, ( and whining) I allways thought it was a goal to aspire to. I really am having second thoughts on it now. Am I beeing delusional ? Or was I miss led on my assumption that the NHRA WAS the top group to race with. Sorry for the rant but the amount of money & time we spend on this stuff deserves some kind of justification.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

What's not to trust? The class guide is easy, it's the people who use it that are the problem.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

stock is stock,you go 1.20 under you get hit.that's the rules.those class should be hit.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Captain - Even if everything you've written is true I'm sure the man who own's the Mustang doesn't like his car being called a thirty year old P.O.S. And he didn't give himself the HP back - it was a gift from Pat . If your Chevy received such a gift would you send it back ? ? You owe that gentleman an apology ..........

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Come on Mr. Jack,that just wasnt right.The Mustang II aint no pos.

I do think the little guy putting one on the corporate deal is great though.
And I am a Ford guy.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Please re-read my post - I'm on his side on this one.I'm not theone who called his car a P.O.S.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

If you go by the rulebook,if it doesn't run in one of the classes listed,it shouldn't be allowed to qualify.

SECTION 10A - STOCK CARS
DESIGNATIONS
AAA/S, AA/S, BB/S, CC/S, A/S, B/S, C/S, D/S, E/S, F/S, G/S, H/S,
I/S, J/S, K/S, L/S, M/S, N/S, O/S, P/S, Q/S, R/S, T/S, U/S, V/S, and
W/S (manual transmission), preceded by car number. AAA/SA,
AA/SA, BB/SA, CC/SA, A/SA, B/SA, C/SA, D/SA, E/SA, F/SA,
G/SA, H/SA, I/SA, J/SA, K/SA, L/SA, M/SA, N/SA, O/SA, P/SA,
Q/SA, R/SA, T/SA, U/SA, V/SA, and W/SA (automatic
transmission), preceded by car number. AAF/S, AF/S, BF/S, CF/S,
DF/S, and EF/S (front-wheel-drive), preceded by car number.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

[QUOTE=442OLDS;398598]If you go by the rulebook,if it doesn't run in one of the classes listed,it shouldn't be allowed to qualify.

Agreed 100%. NHRA has given the new cars a "safe haven" to run with no worry of added HP.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

That was for the other Jack(Capt.) not you Jack(Matyas).
Sorry for any confusion.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

[quote=Jim Kaekel;398600]Jim, It would be my guess that NHRA is trying to tell us all something.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

I may have been harsh, but gary is a friend and I know he actually BEGGED nhra not to reduce it, he was still #1 in T/S is what he wanted to be.

maybe because compared to the line of ponies in the mustang stable the mustang II was often referred to as a pos when it was new...well anyway

if gary was offended ... sorry

captain

and if I got 20 off i'd need a torch cause I don't fit w/sa !!!!

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Excellent point. Maybe one of the guys/gals who had to go home because of not making the field should see a lawyer?
( I mention lawyer because that seems to get attention)

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Wouldn't exactly be the case of the century. Can't imagine who would take it. IMO you'd never be able to prove any damages occurred. Those same cars all would've qualified in their respective classes had they not been running the FS deal.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Not everything is about money (damages). I think the point is whether you follow the rule book or just make em' up as you go.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

I thought everybody here wanted the new cars in their own class?
Now, they're in their own class, and....

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Pretty sure the problem now is their new class doesn't follow the same rules yet gets to race in the regular elimination.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Incorrect sir...Fred Henson went 8.98 and was #150! :eek:
And he wasn't the only one.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

The factory showdown deal was fun to watch and made me mad.

Some of the "new" cars got to remove 280# and the index was a tenth quicker. That would be like letting Jimmy DeFrank at A/SA weight race in C/SA without any chance of penalty. Jimmy would go at least 1.40 plus under.

I just have a problem with the factory shootout not the owners.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

I had to add 150#

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

NHRA Factory Stock Showdown in Charlotte

Coming off a stellar event at the Chevrolet Performance U.S. Nationals in Indianapolis, the NHRA Factory Stock Showdown is back in action this week at the Carlyle Tools NHRA Carolina Nationals presented by Napa Auto Parts.

A special edition of the program will be conducted at zMAX Dragway that will give NHRA Stock racers in FS/AC and FS/DC another chance to compete for the NHRA Factory Stock Showdown title. Chris Holbrook drove his Cobra Jet Mustang to the win over Dave Connolly last week in Indy as 27 racers took place in the specialty event that pits new Cobra Jet Mustangs, COPO Camaros and Dodge Challengers against each other in head to head competition.

The Charlotte event will be the third and final Factory Showdown of the 2013 NHRA season.


not just a Indy thing,may be they should hit their index to bring it more in line

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

:confused: I guess the showdown is more than an Indy thing now. The top 4 qualifiers in Stock at Charlotte are FS cars and are all at 1.282 under or more. Looks like they should be subject to the 1.20 under rule if they continue to run them at various events. Just my 2 cents, but not worth as much as years ago, haha.

:):) In spite of all that being said, I think the new cars are good for the sport, just make it FAIR for all.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

It seems that between Indy and Charlotte, we have a pretty good idea what the FSS combinations are capable of. If these cars were subject to the AHFS, would that be the case? Or would it be a parade of 1000' runs?

Is it possible that NHRA could use what they've learned to adjust rules for next year to make it more fair, and possibly make it a full time class?

How exactly do we use the AHFS to refactor a car that is not classified based on a HP-to-weight factor? Because they're running off of somewhat arbitrary weights, some combinations are lighter than their traditional Stock weight, and some are heavier.

The FSS rules are far from perfect and it's obvious that the indexes are on the generous side. I'm just thinking out loud here.

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Good thoughts Nick. It will be interesting to see what NHRA does. Dyno

Re: New HP Numbers after Indy
 

Very simple you factor the index. If you hit the index, the class competion stays the same noboby gets the advantage. It's done in superstock in the cubic inch to weight categories all the time. And in comp.