only two made
 

This was posted last week by Ken

"I got a chance to cruise around and get some photos of cars that were still not put away for the night. The first two photos are George Yag's 2013 COPO 350 running C/SA, ***one of only two made***. Very nice to see the 350 combo out."


I don't know George Yag and I'm not questioning his car in any way. Very nice car I'm sure and a very good combo to run. My question is-----

Does that mean now that the 1967 Corvette L88 combo would now be legal? There were 2 built and it would be a money pit but for YEARS that combo was not legal. How about the all aluminum BB 69 Corvette? Only two were produced. Sure seems to me that they would also be legal.

Re: only two made
 

Terry,
There were 36 1967 L-88 Corvettes documented as built and sold to the general public through dealers. The combination WAS legal until the Chrysler Hemi people screamed about Tony Rhodes and Scott Wilcox, at which point NHRA removed the combination from the guide. I was told by the man who, before his tragic premature death, was the Corvette archivist for Chevrolet, that there were other 1967 L-88 Corvettes built and sold to "favored racers/customers", at least enough to make the required 50, but that no documentation was provided by Chevrolet.

Honestly, considering we now have cars in the guide that were never produced and sold in the required quantity, or ever sold for street use with a valid VIN, the 1967 Corvette L-88 should be returned to the guide. The 1967 Corvette L-88 is at least as valid a combination as some paper cars that were never produced, ever, but instead are merely a collection of part numbers found in a catalog.

I can, however, see some justification in NOT allowing the 1969 ZL-1 Corvette into the guide, considering there were MAYBE three of them built.

Scott Wilcox's car is now owned and raced by Jimmy Bridges in SS/B with a 396, and Tony Rhodes' car was for sale locally on craig's list about 4-6 months ago.

Re: only two made
 

Alan,
I think maybe we're both wrong on the 67. After posting I checked number made and seems it was either 18 or 20. I know for sure there were only 2, 1969 All aluminum BB Corvettes and that's also what NHRA has as a number.
NHRA opened the can of worms when they changed the numbers and said they didn't have to be offered to the public.

Re: only two made
 

Bring back 67 The L88 !!!!!!!!
It was a real street car, and deserves to be included.

Re: only two made
 

Where the rub is is the car manufacturers have to give the info on the new cars to NHRA for it to be in the guide. Doesn't matter how many were made if the specs aren't sent to NHRA it isn't going to be in the guide. Case in point, the Yenko Duece, they made over 150 of them, even have a list of all the vin numbers but NHRA didn't get the specs from GM they won't put them in the guide.

Re: only two made
 

No, Terry, 36 is the official number for 1967 L-88 Corvettes built and sold through dealers. I've researched this several times. There is a somewhat reliable rumor of a third 69 ZL-1 Corvette. Officially, there were two, but several people who would know say there was a third built.

Re: only two made
 

We need more Hot Rods in the class guide like the L-88's, ZL-1's, the Yenko Deuce and A/C Cobra's. With the new Supercars, there should be no such thing as "not enough made". Two or three ZL-1 'Vettes is adequate in my book. They made them, so let them race them. Same with Yenko Deuce's. A little common sense at NHRA and even a minor understanding of muscle car history should be adequate.

Re: only two made
 

Opening up to these type of combos would be a great boost to the muscle car crowd. It might even help spark more interest.






Bruce Cameron

Re: only two made
 

We have a ZL-1. There's no real need to put it together. At 445HP rating, it won't make the power a "new COPO" 427/425 makes, and it puts us in BB.

Re: only two made
 

X2,,,, good luck finding that common sense and understanding, however.
Danny Durham

Re: only two made
 

According to the National NOVA club there were a few documented 1967 L-79 350HP Chevy II also. Apparently there was a few motors left over from 66 and they went into the early 67"s.

Re: only two made
 

I had two friends that owned one of these cars. I believe there were around 40-50 produced before the option was deleted.

Re: only two made
 

Why would that option get deleted? Took to much shine away from the 'Vette?

Re: only two made
 

Some mid level marketing genius decided the 67 Camaro was their performance offering, Vettes for road courses, and Chevy II for economy.....in 68 the Nova once again jumped back into the HP race.

Re: only two made
 

It was done because the Camaro was introduced in 1967, and they did not want to have the 67 Chevy II out perform the SS 350 67 Camaro. Another mistake by idiots in stupd departments in the automotive industry. They did not offer anything with more performance in their new performance car than a mild 350. It amazes me that no one had the intelligence to put a set of small dome pistons in the 350, add the heads, intake, and camshaft from the L-79 327, and stick a big Q-Jet on it. It took some true geniuses in some small offices to be so stupid as to have a 327 that made 350HP, and have a 350 that made less than 300HP, in the same size and weight package. Eventually, the stupid decision on the Camaro was over ruled, and the big block installed.

Re: only two made
 

Alan did you know that the early Camaro paperwork contained the 327/350 as a Camaro option? If you look up the old engine codes you can find that GM assigned block codes for a 327/350 Camaro too!

Re: only two made
 

I saw that somewhere. Never saw an actual car though. It always did amaze and amuse me that it took until the 4th year of production for the 350 to have a real hard core performance version. Given the prevailing market of the times, an LT-1, or the combination I posted up thread should have been built in 1967 as part of the first batch of 350 engines.

Re: only two made
 

If they would have done that AND had the Z-28, they would have had full control of the market.

Re: only two made
 

Also, Chev had planned a 3x2bbl small block engine for the '67 Camaro that was nixed before production. Several of the assembly manuals had pages referencing that engine that were marked "cancelled". I do not know any particulars about the internals, but it used the same chrome valve covers as the 350 option and a triangle air cleaner like the tri-power Corvettes. '67 was the first year of the 5-year 50,000 mile warranty and that may have had some bearing on the factory offering those performance engines.

Re: only two made
 

NO BIG DEAL BUT................
For what its worth Chevrolet only made 20 (TWENTY) PRODUCTION L-88's. These were the assembly line assembled cars. 17 are known to exist and 3 have the original engines. The rest have replacement engines no matter what the re stamped block says. The rest were cars with engines used as "Service parts" (engines) so they could be used in SCCA type of events. The famous "K-MOTION CORVETTE" from Motion performance in NY was NOT a real L-88 driven by the late Astoris Chas shown in car magazines. But who cares !! It was a car that made for "Wet Dreams"I have a copy of EVERY Corvette Black book printed and they ALL say 20 prodction L-88 cars I know personally the 2 guys who own the ZL-1's The Yellow one and the blue one. The blue one has NO paperwork and is about 1 hour from me here in Florida. The yellow one is fully documented and is also in Florida just off Rt # 4 at his dealership along with a cpl. of REAL L-88's of the 1967 varitey. A good friend had a RED 69 L-88 Coupe that he tried to race with a factory Turbo 400. This was before good torque converters.He was a salesman at a local Chevrolet dealer in Md. The guy with the white ZL-1 I do not know but it is supposed to be fully documented. . I have been a Corvette guy since before I had a drivers liscense. I have owned 11 of them and raced a few (not L-88s) including a 435 HP '67 roadster which was one of 20 (yes twenty) built that I ordered new with the M-22 trans. Look them up....its all there in the Corvette black book.

Re: only two made
 

Terry is absolutely correct. There were 20 L88 (427/430, aluminum head, 12.5/1 comp. ratio, radio/heater delete, aluminum radiator, w/expansion tank without a fan shroud) optioned 67's and16 L89 (aluminum head 427/435, also the rarest 67 BB option) optioned 67's, so this could be where the 36 number comes from. The Corvette Black Book and NCRS are authenticated sources for these and other Corvette questions anyone may have. In 1988, the Special Collection at Bloomington Gold, featured many L88's from 67, 68, and 69 and was known as EarthQuake 88.

Re: only two made
 

Thank you AR for the back up. I was going to mention the L-89's but this thread was about the L-88's. Don't forget the deletion of the distributor shielding on the L-88's. No radio so it wasnt necessary.It is possable that the L-89's were counted and why some believe more L-88's were built. My '67 435 HP car was ALMOST an L-89 but I couldnt stand the price of the alum. head option back then. $368.65 after I had to come up with $5302.00 plus insurance and sales tax was a LOT in 1967. If I only had a time machine.....LOL. Hope all is going well with you and your wife. If your around stop in and say hello.
Terry

Re: only two made
 

My first class racing was done in the summer of 1968 with a '57 Chev 150 business coupe and a 283 two bbl. I raced about six times that summer at a little dragstrip south of Ft. Smith, AR. Three of those times a soldier from nearby Ft. Chaffee showed up with a maroon '67 Corvette 435hp-427 roadster with some JC Penny slicks mounted on white steel wheels stuffed into the compartment behind the seats. He would put the slicks on and run mid - low 12s all day through the side pipes. During the same period of time, a friend of mine in Little Rock had made friend with another soldier stationed at the Air Force base at Jacksonville, AR who also had a black 435hp-427 roadster and even got to drive the car a couple of times. I rode in that car twice. X-Tech, if you say only twenty were made, then I have personally been around two of the twenty! I did not know the cars were that rare.

Re: only two made
 

That's 20 1967 L88 427 / 430 HP cars. You drove the 427/435 try-power 'Vett's. Much more common.

I had a client with a '67 427/435 4-speed, 4.11 side pipe 'Vette. He had the original engine on a stand for prosperity but a 427/425 in it's place. He threw me the keys and said "drive it as hard as you want". I though that was an offer to good to be true. I gotta say, it sure ran good, but I wouldn't call it smooth or overly fast. If it was faster than my '70 'Cuda 440-6 with Shaker, 4-speed & 3.54's, it wasn't by much and I think if geared the same it would be darn close. But I guess a 'Cuda is not a 'Vette and never will be.

Back to the subject, maybe somebody needs to persue this with NHRA ONE MORE TIME!

Re: only two made
 

Just slap a COPO, Drag Pack or CJ emblem on it. End of story.

Re: only two made
 

My dad also had one of the 67 427/435 M-22 cars. He ordered it brand new in 66. After he picked up the car he found out about the L88, he would have ordered one of those had he known about it. His was marina Blue with both tops, no side pipes. Said it had a tag ( i believe on the shifter) that said not for highway use, off road only.

Re: only two made
 

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Re: only two made
 

My 67 435 HP car was also Marina Blue with a black interior but with "off the road" side pipes. Both tops. AND the speed warning buzzer. A friend had a yellow(Ugly) one (435 HP) with the rare "J-56" brake option and a standard M21 Muncie. The M-22 trans was OK for the street but was loud. Not to bad with the side pipes sounding off in my ears. It "whined" a lot with the straight cut gears. Never saw the tag on the shifter on mine. The L-88/430 HP option was way to expensive for a single young guy at almost $950 unless you had a rich mom and dad. Plus living in Md. a heater was more important in the winter time than the L-88 option. I could NOT hear the radio anyway with the side pipes but who cares. it was a rough riding car (rode like a dump truck) that sucked gas especially after I changed gears to 4.88's and got 4 1/2 MPG but at .39 cents a gallon for SUNOCO 280 so what. It was HOT as hell in the summer as A/C was not avaliable with the solid lifter cam engines. Back then what self respecting car guy would have A/C anyway. To much extra weight and used precious HP. Most good restored REAL 435 HP cars go for around $125,000 to $250,000 today. Maybe a little more for a really nice one with the right color and options. A REAL L-88 with the original engine brings approx $3,000,000 to $5.000,000. (Thats million). If we only knew. There are probably many more 435 HP cars today than Chev. ever made with all the bogus stuff out there like restamped blocks etc. One 435 HP car was traced to have begun life on the assembly line as a 300 HP powerglide car a few years ago. Im sure there are a cpl. of BOGUS L-88's out there but harder to fake. Not as many and most are accounted for. I ended up running 10.97 (Best) with mine with a cam (L-88 gear drive cam) change and 8 inch slicks and open headers. Mostly 11.0's and 11.teens in A/SP class at Aquasco and Capitol. My favorite Corvette was a 1966 roadster. Maroon with black interior and a white top. 327/350 HP with a 4-speed muncie. All Id need today is A/C in it because Im old. My 73 was the first with automatic and A/C. It was a John Lingenfelter look alike. Ugly green and (UGH) a tan interior. My latest is a 2010, 430 HP LS-3, 6 speed auto, A/C as all of them have, rides like a Cadilliac and "The way it was". Looking for a nice 67 small block (less expensive) Coupe to "CLONE" as a 435 HP look alike with a pump gas friendly big block with vintage air and a 5 speed tremic. Maroon with american spoke torque thrust mags. Who cares about numbers matching !

Re: only two made
 

Terry,
There's a guy here locally who takes the 64-67's and makes 435 Clone cars out of them. He does about 6 a year. Frame off complete restore. They are nice cars when he's done with them. He let's the buyer know UP FRONT that it is a clone but people don't seem to mind and he's making a good living doing them. I can put you in touch with him if you'd like.
Terry Cain

Re: only two made
 

Thank you for the info. I will keep that in mind but I not that old yet(I think)....LOL. I can still do it all except the paint work. Paint and body work was never my thing though. Maybe I should call him to see if I can pick up some parts I dont have like a Tri power intake for a 67. They are a little taller than the 68-69 versions. Date codes and numbers are not a concern to me. Most dont know what they see anyway. I have new carbs. I need something to keep me busy anyway since I retired and I want to make it road worthy and comfortable to drive on long trips. Im building a new 40 X 60 garage at the moment on 5 acres. My plan is to spend my last penny about 30 seconds before I drop dead.

Re: only two made
 

X-Tech, Don't forget my neighbor around the corner has about 28 63-67 vettes in his warehouse and are for sell for the right price... He does have them in a variety of price ranges along with big and small blocks.....I will try to take some pics of them and send them to you on your phone ....call me if you want his ph #, he will deal as he moves them frequently and replaces with more new ones .....He has parts too.....

Re: only two made
 

Good luck w your build up Terry. Just be careful of them tremecs and big block torque. They are based on production T 5's, and even with the good gears come apart into scrap.
I got to drive a 69 427 tri power 4 speed from Mineola train station to shop I worked at after dropping customer off in his own Vette. Intimidated I was, but it felt great. Green car, rest is vague, circa 1986, i was 21 and knew about respecting peoples things. King of the road for 20 minutes, lol.

Chris

Re: only two made
 

Thanks guys.....I did forget about your neighbor Danny. Send me a PM with his number if you would. A friend here has a Tremic 5 speed in a 69 Convert with a 427/400 HP tri power car. It drives good and is great cruising around 75 or 80 with his 3.55 gears in the rear. IThe trans has been in there for quite awhile but he dosent hammer it. Not looking for a SS/A or B car on the street. Just a pump gas (87 octane) friendly driver. Might use a small hydraulic cam so I dont have to adjust the valves anymore either. You guys will find out that we tend to get lazy as time goes on.

Re: only two made
 

Terry, It sounds like you're having way too much fun. I'll be down in the Indiantown area next month looking for 3-5 acres to put the same size garage on. I was thinking pole barn, what are you putting up? cost? --------Great plan by the way :-)

Re: only two made
 

Hi Dan....Im looking at a metal construction package with a 15 ft ceiling so I can have another car lift. The kit is about $35,000 done and installed on a concrete slab and can take about 150 MPH winds. Then I need to insullate and wire it. I did that in Md. so Im able to run the elec. I have the time so why not? I miss the lift I had in Md. Im going out of town from here so I can shoot my guns whenever I want. Cant do that here unless I want to kill a few neighbors (Hummmmm, not a bad idea) Be careful where you go in Indian Town unless you can speak spanish. Need I say more. Its about 1 1/2 hours from here. I sold the Hot Rod (35 Chev Coupe) a cpl of months ago so I need a new project. Always loved the Vettes of old. Its OK here but more like the "Land of the Living Dead". You can watch the movies of this place on the Si-Fi channel most any weekend. Bunch of REALLY OLD non-car types. They hate my loud Harley to sooooooooooooo.....screw'em Ive had it with these old bastards. I hate Golf and wouldnt play cards on a bet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: only two made
 

Lol !!! I got a few neighbors like that too. The area I'm looking at is east of Indiantown and about 30 min. out of Stuart. It's pretty uninhabated but close to my boss's current condos on the beach. Or you could rent me a cot in the corner of your building and I could bring my loud Harley too. :-)

Re: only two made
 

Terry,
You know they're now re-producing the 67 intakes? Crane Corvette has them.

Re: only two made
 

Stuart is quite habitated I think. My moms in Hobe Sound. 15 minutes from Moroso/pbir.
cross over 95 and 2 turns, jeez.
Might have to move south and work for Lexus there. I need a track. LI sucks.

Chris

Good luck guys. All of you.

ps, please put the 67 L88 back in the book NHRA!!!!!!!

Re: only two made
 

Chris, Yes Stuart is pretty populated but if you head west out of town and go under 95 it starts thinning out and eventually turns into farm land and a lot of cattle.

Re: only two made
 

In 74 I went to work for Tom Barrett taking care of his cars. In 75 Tom bought two cars from Roger Penske. One was a Blk 69 Shelby with 500 miles. The other was a Blk 69 ZL-1 Vette with just over 400 miles.I remember the conversation from Roger to Tom saying this is one of two built. The car was fun to drive. When Tom was in Russia buying a car. The Vette went to Lopers and had a 4:56 gear installed. Sure did wake it up. Id say Penske and Barrett knew what the real number produced was.