Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

This years Lee Sherman Memorial event at Hagerstown will feature allowing Nostalgia S/S cars running with the traditional Stock - SuperStock cars .These cars basically have no rules other than stock 'appearing' bodies and engines .

If Mr.Sherman ( or Linda Sherman for that matter ) were still alive I could just hear him - "Are you F'in kidding me ? Those who knew him at this moment could hear his words ......

Stock - SuperStock or Pro ET ..............You decide -have we gone too far ? Then voice your thoughts .

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

~Nostalgia/SS is part of the Tri-State S/SS Association (the sanctioning group for these races) this year. They have been welcome to race with us all season, though only a minor few have. It would be unfair to tell them they can't run this race.

~Elmer and the track post money intro the race purse to guarantee the $2,000 to win each year (2010-11-12). Because of the lack of support a few of those years, it has cost me and him about $1,600-$1,700. I can't expect us to lose money because others do not come, and this was a way to help add a (very) few cars to the event (more cars = more money to win).

~We have had almost zero participation as it is this year from N/SS. We (Tri-State S/SS) did a double-header weekend at Pittsburgh last month. N/SS had their own, stand-alone class for just them. Because, in their words, "100 bucks is too much to pay to race". At the six races we have had this year, the car counts for N/SS were four, four, one, one, two and zero. So, if you are expecting a dozen or more N/SS cars to be here to run with us, you are sadly mistaken. Personally, if we get more than five, I will be surprised.

~N/SS do have rules, in the various organizations that allow them that we use. Exceptions are, with us, they can dial to the nearest one-hunderedth and change their dial-ins between rounds. Cars must retain stock bodies, engines based on period correct and OEM parts (no Dart/B-1 heads, Merlin blocks, etc). They do not use delay boxes, transbrakes, or air shifters (two-steps allowed). You can use replacement OEM-based parts that are period correct. So, basically, the same rules as modern S/SS racing in 2013, if not stricter.

~The flyer for this race has been up on here since October 4 (twenty-four days ago), and stuff about ALL of our races has been up on this website down below since January. Why someone would choose to complain now, four days before the race is a little peculiar.

~If you had a problem, you could have just called and/or e-mailed me.

~Someone will win $2,000 this coming Sunday.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

The NSS cars run with us at the Southern Stock Super Stock Assn down here in Florida. We typically have 3 or 4 NSS cars that show up for each event. The cars we get are very nice, clean, well prepared cars. They have done well in the eliminations so they are also some good drivers as well. Just another good bunch of guys to race with.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

First thing is why are you so defensive - no one complained or even mentioned you .Second is you chose to change who was allowed to race at this event 24 days before and didn't bother to tell anyone .Yes, its there in your post - but who knew to proof read the first page of your thread that was posted in January and you changed recently.

And lastly do you feel that you might have asked anyone's opinion on how they feel on this matter ? And BTW , if I had e-mailed or called you about how would the racers or members have found out about this change ?

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I never changed ANYTHING after the rules for our series were set Which was in January. Let alone did I change anything twenty-four days before H-town about who could race. Nost/SS was allowed since January, for this and ALL races in our series (all eight races).

Yes, I asked MANY racers for their opinions and input regarding our series in the offseason, received many e-mails and phone calls (December and January). I posted in the Tri-State S/SS Association forum MANY times in that time span this past winter, looking for ways to improve car counts and things for 2013. and It was voted 100% in favor of allowing N/SS into our series for 2013. Which includes Hagerstown. If a few people dislike that, there is nothing I can do.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Whaah!...what is the big deal, I plan on attending, so any NSS are welcome to follow me into the lanes to race. There are no NHRA/IHRA points or records, just ST/SS/NSS bracket racing...sounds like fun/good time to me.

Richard
SS/DM 161
I/CM 151

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

^^^What He Said! I've raced against NSS cars with my Stocker in the Buckeye Stock/SuperStock Series this year, & I don't see any competitive advantage or disadvantage to it. Some very nice NSS cars and very nice NSS drivers. It's just Stock/SuperStock/NostalgiaSuperStock bracket racing... a fun time to be had by all. Keep your head up Mike!!!

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

must be something about used car sales down

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Jack,
You really should try a little bracket racing..............You might even learn something.
Take a deep breath and put a dial on the window, sound familiar??
Thumbs up to clubs and associations who support drag racing and put on events. Without them, all we would have is the always changing Torah from Glendora.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I seldom have an opinion that I consider worthy of exposure to debate. On this subject, however, there is an opportunity to lend my support to the guys who may be perceived as detracting from the traditional structure.

In the Can-Am Stock/SuperStock Series, we welcome the participation of our friends from the NSS ranks. There is a veiled distinction between our series guidelines and a sanctioned event. I say that it is hidden from view because the spectators are generally unaware that we race locally in a format that differs significantly from NHRA or IHRA competition. They see a diverse group of vehicles competing in bracket race style with the added entertainment value offered by the wheel standing action. I daresay that there have been few objections to the Nostalgia content - not one of their cars looks out of place.

In the spirit of keeping the emphasis on fun and affordable Sportsman racing, I endorse the more open concept adopted by many of the regional series using a "Combo" framework.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I think it would be neat to see a copo lined up against one of those old ones.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

this^^^!

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I'm proud to say that we at the Southern Stock/Super Stock Assn. were (as far as I know) the first to include the NSS and MCA (NMCA) cars in our racing series three years ago. Some of these cars are as nice as you would see at any car show and are just as deadly in competition. We have had ZERO problems related to the inclusion of these nostalgia cars and welcome them with open arms! Jim

.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I wish I could make the race at Hagerstown with my OLD N/SS Plymouth. It would be a privilege to race against some of the best Stock and Super Stock racers on the East Coast.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Jack is right, Mike is right all is good with the world. What's wrong with a COPO running Pro-ET, pays better than most Stock,Super Stock race. Jack you might have to run that pesky Pontiac Grand Prix Copo Killer. Have fun and get ready for next year.CR

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I do have one question. If you allow cars from these other series how do you come up with a index for them? I have no dog in the fight just curios.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

With all do respect to everyones answer (mostly Jack).....Mike has done a remarkable job of organizing these races; with the result of low car counts. Because of the lack of support, he mentioned, took a vote, and decided to allow NSS cars this year..... Yes, they are not stock or super stock legal, but at this point, who really gives a F&*^. ....Its a stock/super stock combo...not a points meet or national event. With the addition of these cars, it adds to the purse. With the amount of cars, even without the NSS, its still more than a IHRA/NHRA points race. Whats the big deal?

Stating that someone is rolling in their grave because the cars are not legal is quite a statement;..in fact to me, it is not even something that should have been mentioned on a internet forum. Sounds disrespectable for who you have mentioned. Honestly, to me, it just sounds like another cop out to not leave Jersery for anything that wasnt an NHRA event.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Don't like the format,stay home.It's so simple even a caveman can comprehend it.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

All I see is shoe polish!!!!! So?

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I have been following this thread and it is really quite interesting.

The sad part is that the Nostalgia SS/S cars are somewhat closer to fitting into the "original" rules of Stock and Super Stock than some of today's cars are, and yet they are not welcome.

I don't see the harm in letting them run in a combo race with a good payout that is not an NHRA/IHRA sanctioned event for points or anything.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

as far as nost/ cars having no rules to abide by is buloney,,I"ve worked on many of these cars at my shop and in my eyes their as much class cars as many ss that still run nhra circuit,,these racers have chose to participate at these nost/ races as cost has driven many away from nhra circuit,,if you haven"t been to a all nost/ race your missing a good time,, Capital nov. 9th. ,,, friend of mine has just completed a nost/ 68 hemi cuda,,I had the pleasure of driving it for some shake down runs last weekend at cecil county, its a top shelf chassis and has well over 800hp of steam,, we had all intentions of making hagerstown race ,some tranny issues tryin to correct in time ? ? car count is the key to keep these races going,, my opinion it"s great to see these older cars still beatin the asphalt,, after all our camaro is 44 years young,,,, Ewing Bros.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

The N/SS cars that run the Tri-State S/SS series, or that have run the Buckeye S/SS series are all very nice cars. The owners keep them up very well. Alot of the cars are either ex super stock cars from back in the "day", or are re-creations of super stock cars.

I don't think it is that much of a stretch to allow them to race in the combo's.

In the Tri-State S/SS association races, there is no qualifying off the index anyway, so the fact that there is no "index" for them is not an issue.

Jack has been at Mike's Hagerstown race. I think it was two years ago with his Chieftan Firebird stocker.

The weather looks good this year. I'm coming for both days. Was working after Superstorm Sandy last year.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I agree with you Gary - I will be at Capital on the 9th to run N/SS. And you were in a Mopar? LOL

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

When we setup the Buckeye Stock/SuperStock Drag Racing Series FIVE years ago we allowed the NSS cars to run with us. I've always felt the quality and apearance of the NSS cars was every bit as good as many of the S/SS cars out there, and better than some.
Good cars, good racers, and when you have these combo races you also need car count. The NSS cars fit right in with the S/SS cars today. How about if Mike's car count is not good and the NSS cars make the difference of a full payout or an abbreviated payout, would you be happy to have them then?
Mike, the Ross clan cannot be there this weekend. Oldest brother Mike is getting married. Hope you have great success this weekend and hope the racers have a great time as usual.
Jeff Ross
Buckeye Stock/SuperStock Drag Racing Series

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

A lot of us race Nostalgia because we are older guys and it allows us to do what we did in the old days, using our old stuff. I know my stuff is as old school as it gets, still using the Hemi NASCAR rods, ancient Racer Brown cam, stock iron heads, low compression, "J" converter. To be frank, it's much closer to the way the combo was produced than the class cars of today. That stuff would have wound up in the trash at Barton's, but It's reliable and it's fun, which is exactly why I do it. I have no interest at all to get into my retirement for a trick 727 with 904 innards, or a $4K "must have converter". I know of a couple of Ford Stockers that race with you that have more in their cylinder heads than I do in my entire combo. Great for those who want that, but I just want to have some fun, race the car I've owned since 1969, and hang on to yesterday for a while.

Look, if you guys don't want us around, that's OK, too. I can sit home and watch football and be just as happy. I don't need the politics and fighting that you guys do. At this age, it's a waste of my time.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I have an IDEA..

Create ..a Pure Super Stock Class :D

Ohhh going to get punched on this one !!!

D

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Mike does a great job putting on a series to give guys a place to race. He communicates with everyone and goes above and beyond. The few times i've run his races i've had a blast, great group of racers, well run, etc... Mike don't think your efforts aren't appreciated. As for the Pittsburgh race, it was a double edged sword I assure you, but i'd say by the end of the weekend it worked out for everyone.

I really think any complaining about the matter here is useless, as almost all the posts are in agreement that NSS running w/ Stk and SS is just fine. I for one am looking foward to coming down and racing...it's always a nice event and a fun one. Additionally, the allowance of NSS in Mike's association has been there since winter...see the threads on his class racer forum and it's all there.

I'm definitely not going to get in a pi**ing match over NSS vs Stk/SS, as i think mostly everyone here knows that Stk/SS cars are held to stricter rules engine wise, but other than that the rules are pretty much the same as far as the car goes. Though I will say at least the NSS cars were available as a titled, licensed car from the factory...maybe making them truer to form than a COPO/DragPak/CobraJet..:D (that should get everyone going.....)

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

EXACTLY!

Argue all you want but this race is nothing more than a no electronics bracket race limited to stock, super stock and N/SS cars.

NOTHING, the only problem is the ego that fills the helmet of the driver.;)

How many stock/super stock racers will show up for this race with their class legal cars?

http://www.looserocker.com/images/fff13.jpg

Answer...only the smart ones whose ego is only stroked by winning races and cashing big checks and not by the fact that they are class racers and think they are special.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

OK, I got a little dressing down from my son, and he's right, I should have tempered my comments. He is the level headed one. I must be getting old and grumpy.

Either way, a blind man could have seen this controversy coming. What would life be without a little controversy?

Anyway, there are a lot of good racers doing both, with a lot of the older ones dong the NSS thing. Dave Reitz and Tom Sneden (82 years old) are still wheeling the Bob Banning Dodges from the sixties. The "Bounty Hunters" Bob Banning Dodge has won the lucrative 422 series two years in a row. Bob Harrop, the winner of the first SS Nationals at York is still involved. The "Rev Mr. Black" wedge Plymouth, many more that the more elderly among you would remember are very involved in the NSS race venue. Perhaps if everyone would stop fighting long enough it would be fun sometime to put on a big, combined race....NSS vs new school. Now, THAT might be one to see.

Either way, looking forward to Saturday. Should be fun. The reaction on this board will be interesting if an NSS car would win it.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

[QUOTE=1320racer;406557]EXACTLY!


How many stock/super stock racers will show up for this race with their class legal cars?



QUOTE]

I would be the first one in line for tech.
We have nothing on the west coast even close to this. We have lots of .90 clubs and events but zero S/SS combos. Frankly, I won't care who was in the other lane.......we dial, stage and race. First one to the end without being under is the winner..............kinda like that ugly "B" word. S/SS drivers need seat time. I would kill to have combos and club stuff as often as what y'all have in D1. And I would welcome the Nos S/SS cars with open arms.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

guarantee my car will be 100% NHRA legal.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Well put, Steve. Well put. Go out and have some fun and keep them old racecars running.
Danny Durham

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

In my opionion if there is no qualifying off the index and I assume no heads up. Then it is not a class race. It is a bracket race that only class cars are allowed to enter.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

already stated in post #28

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

You are really missing the point of these type races. They are a different format than the standard National or divisional meet. They are mostly the local racers from all of the different sanctions and usually a combo event. They are friendly and fun events that you don't have to travel far to attend. I can tell you that the racing is second to none at these events. Rounds happen very quickly so the action is non stop. I urge you to attend one of these type of races and your mind will change. We have several "Hardheaded" racers in our area that don't attend our association races. They don't know what they are missing.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

I guess I pretty much agree with the majority here..
As a promoter of S/SS races,,, you do what you gotta do to build up the purse.
First question I'm always asked it "What does it pay to win?"
I totally understand Mike's position.

I've raced with the N/SS guys...Nice cars ...good racing,.. but to me , it seems like there's something missing between the rounds...You can't go ask someone how they finesse a 2bbl combination to run in the summertime...or what low gear gives the best 60', etc.
But that's just me. I enjoy the technical, hands- on aspect of real S/SS racing.

On the other hand , Jacko is right about Lee Sherman..He hated the .90 cars
He said it was like giving professional baseball teams 4 outs in an inning..
What would happen to the quality of the teams?


Carry on....

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Didn't know they were running NSS on the 9th?

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Kev....I saw the flier but I didn't see anything about NSS. Any details?

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Not to argue but I don't think I did miss any point. I have no issue with combos. I have run some. Luckily the ones in my area have qualifying and heads up. Should I get my car back out I will be heading to the combos ever chance I get. I would rather go to those than any national. But in my opinion they should have to qualify and have heads up to be considered class races. Otherwise please explain what the difference is between this race and a bracket race.

Re: Hagerstown S-S/S Combo or Pro E T ? ? ?
 

Okay,lets say you got your car back out to actually race it.You head to a COMBO race and it turns out that there are so many cars in different classes there,you find out that you are the ONLY one racing in your class.

I assume you will then put it back on the trailer and go home because there is no chance for ever having a heads up race?