Starting problem
 

How to do use go about checking amps drawn at the starter ? My relay clicks away sometimes , running 1 12volt and alternator , charging between rounds , last thing I try before using another battery .

Re: Starting problem
 

Current draw would only be an issue if the starter was actually engaging and trying to turn the engine over .
The starter relay only clicking can be the result of several issues , the most common one I see is voltage drop across battery or starter cable connections , especially ground cables .
Start with fully charging your battery and having it load tested to confirm it is up to par .
Check for voltage drop at various points of both positive and negative sides , starting at the battery posts any working toward the starter .
You should test both at rest and while cranking .
Cable ends that have not been properly crimped and soldered are the worst culprits . Clamped or compression type lugs should be replaced with crimp and solder connections .

Re: Starting problem
 

All connections are new crimped and soldered , what would be an average drop in voltage when cranking at the starter ? Thanks

Re: Starting problem
 

Usually .1 volt or less on positive cable and .2 volt or less on negative side would be considered acceptable.None of course would be better. Bad Ignition switch or wiring connections can cause a start relay to click also.

Re: Starting problem
 

Both cylinder heads are grounded to the frame , I was told to ground them back to the battery ? Would 2 batteries solve the problem ? This car has just recently been re wired , but will check again . thanks

Re: Starting problem
 

If both heads are grounded to the frame, and the battery negative is grounded to the frame, you should be O.K. Two batteries are not required.

Re: Starting problem
 

Make sure the starter mounting to the block is clean and free of paint. That is the ground for the starter itself!

Re: Starting problem
 

Have you tried bypassing the neutral start switch?

Re: Starting problem
 

All good replies, have you checked voltage at the "S" terminal of the relay? Should have B+ there. As mentioned make sure the starter is grounded properly. BTW what is the battery voltage reading during your issue? Personally I've found voltage drop to be the cause with a slow crank, not normally for a no crank but it's worth checking. I like to have a ground from 1 starter bolt to the frame, just to be sure. Good luck. Joe

Re: Starting problem
 

Like Joe said ,check voltage at the S terminal for drop.
Also dont rule out the starter relay itself.
I've had a hot start problem ,and the volt drop across the solenoid was 3 volts when it got hot ! .
I cut it open to see what the problem and was shocked by how cheap it was .
This was an Echlin, but it was made in China.
I now use a AMETEK /Prestolite metal case solenoid with silver contacts.
The p/n is 15-108 , it can sustain 200 amps continuous ,and 600 amps intermittent.
the photo shows what most Chinese relays look like inside , pretty poorly built for our applications.

Re: Starting problem
 

As a side note, be sure to use plenty of solder when attaching lugs to cables. You don't wnat just enough to hold it together, you want enough to make all of the strands into one, effectively, making it harder for corrosion to intrude.

Re: Starting problem
 

Dave, also good advice. I will put the cable end in a vice test fit my cable then using a small torch I'll "fill" the cable end with solder about 1/4 way up then i'll push my cable into the solder and allow it to cool. Works great and you CANNOT pull the cable out,put a crimp in it a little shrink tube and you're set.

Re: Starting problem
 

Thanks for all the info , All my connections are good , Have a #1 from the battery to the Ford style relay which I was told are the best ? Then from there I go 2.5' with #2 to the starter , All grounds are on bare metal , Not sure what the voltage drops too when cranking , What should it drop too ? Car is charged bettween rounds and I run an alternator , The voltage is fine for the entire run , never has gone under 12.9 volts , Is it possible to have good voltage and low amperage ?

Re: Starting problem
 

9.6 would be the minimum allowed cranking voltage.Typically 10.8 or more is normal cranking voltage depending on starter amperage.It is possible for an alternator to have "normal " voltage and low amp output.Normal charging voltage would be approximately 13.8 to 14.2 volts.Have you tried disconnecting the alternator?

Re: Starting problem
 

Ok, have you done any testing yet? You really need some information to work with here, voltage drop testing is 1 sure fire way of finding your problem assuming your battery is up to the task. Kind of long winded to explain how to do it so if you like you can go to yellow bullet.com in the electrical section there is a pretty good explanation of how to do it and the results you'd expect to see. Give it a try and see what the results lead to. Good luck, Joe

Re: Starting problem
 

Boy, that brings back memories. From 1974 to 1981 I worked for Essex Wire/United Technologies and the department we worked in made that exact switch.. 8800 of them per shift,2 shifts a day. 125 women and 4 guys. ( The guys were... 2 maintenance men and 2 material handers. I was one of the maintenance guys.)There were 2 lines. The FORD line, and the Aftermarket line. Whenever we would get a new piece of equipment, a riveter or such, we would put it in the Ford line and take the old one over and put it in the aftermarket. Ford inspectors were always in looking over the parts that we were making .We had press rooms and so forth that made all the copper washers etc. If Ford rejected it, we just used it in the aftermarket line. Unless it was totally junk of course then we were forced to trash can it. They set the finished product "test sets" at a more forgiving voltage in the aftermarket line so as to not have to piss with that line as much. Anybody that says OEM and aftermarket are the same? Maybe they are now, but back then you got what you paid for....
On a side note, all the expensive cars like Lincoln ects, headlight switches and relays got pure silver contacts, where the Sable ects would get a copper contact w/a silver "tip" on it...But the switch from the outside LOOKED identical...Only way you could tell the difference was the part #.
And its been Oh so many years, but I'm thinking that across the 2 main contacts while engaged @ 12 volts the voltage had to be .2 volts or less for that switch to be considered good...

The entire plant picked up and went to Mexico in the early 90's. At its high point there was 1500 people working there. Thanks for jogging my memory Tom, I had some good times in that place....

Re: Starting problem
 

Tom, can you tell me where you find the AMETEK./ Prestolite metal case solenoids?
I have tried a coupe of the major chain Auto Parts houses and they are not able to find it.
I started to send this in a PM but thought others might want to know the answer also if you answered it in the forums.
Thanks
Rick Cates

Re: Starting problem
 

i agree ground or poor solenoid just had a similar issue on our Ford class A motorhome

these are the only starter solenoids we use on our cars and trucks or sell any more even the Motorcrafts are now made in China.



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