Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Just got done installing a new braced up rear end housing in my Cuda and now I,m wondering if synthetic gear lube is worth the money and is there any Et in it. If so what brand , weight ect did you use??
Jeff Ross

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

more ET to be had in running less lube/oil than there is in type.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

My experience with synthetic oil in the rear end is that the first run of the day will not be slower than the second run all other things equal.

Bill

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Bill, that is about all I noticed.

As far as running less lube, I would not recommend that. I use Royal Purple 80wt in mine.
It holds almost two bottles. I was running one thinking about drag, or "windage". At Indy in 2011 James Lee rode up there with me. We were parked across from long time hero of mine Jimmy Bridges. He told James about testing he did on the bench with a rear end he rigged up with a clear back cover so he could watch the line at speed. I don't remember the speed he told James, but most of the lube goes out into the axle tubes. Low lube levels cause the gear set to run out of lube sooner, or at a lower speed.
After hearing that I dumped the other bottle of lube in my rear end. Ran my first MPH over 132. Wasn't sure if I could believe it until my MPH stayed about half a MPH for the rest of the year. My gear life is better to boot. With the lube going to the axle tubes, drag on the gears running in the lube becomes moot. If that info came from somebody other than Jimmy, I might have not been so quick to believe it. Jimmy tests about everything.
Hope this helps somebody else.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

The fact is many class racers and some bracket racers run less than "2 bottles." I haven't run more than 1 quart of Mobil 1 Synthetic gear lube in over 2 decades and the R&P on my Firebird failed after 700+ runs 60 footing low 20's to high teens and my 3880 lb. chevelle typically got 200 passes on a R&P 60 footing 30s and a best of 1.28.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Many people doing something does not make it correct.

I don't break rear ends, they just stay quieter longer. Less wear.

When it comes to listening to you or Jimmy Bridges, well....

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Ed, thats a no brainer LOL

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I typically make 250+ passes a season and you?

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

And I should care because?

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

the point is I as do most serious bracket racers, make far, far more passes in a season that you do who "don't break rear ends"

Nothing breaks when it's sitting in the trailer.;)

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Snore.....

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Ditto

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

From my sons dirt track car with a 9 inch ford, they make a seal that slides in the axle tube to keep lube in the center section don't know if they make them for any thing else.I have been told that most major nascar teams have a diff dyno to run there gears on. Was told that it takes 47 hp to get a 9 inch up to speed and then 3 hp to keep it at speed. With that being said any thing that we can do to make less drag in the diff, the car should go faster. Most of us run small motors 350s or less and what some 500 plus does not apply to us. Tom

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

At least on a 9 inch it's very easy to keep the oil in the gear area. Fitting and welding small "dams" in either side of the housing works good. For the most part 2 quarts in a 9inch is what I run, have tried the 1 quart deal but honestly saw no measurable difference. I'll put this one in the running 2-3 quarts of engine oil column, use at your own risk. Your results may vary I would think that if there were a gain to be had at least in drag racing....heating the oil would be of greatest benefit.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

I was surprised Jimmy had built , or saw, a rig like that run. I never thought about dams, or baffles in the housing. I'm old.

I've heard of guys running ATF for gear lube. Never tried that. I know a Pro Stocker that uses a heater in his 9.5" housing. The cord is tied to the left wheelie bar, so is easily plugged in. Thought about putting a heater in my 12 bolt rear cover. I have drain & filler plugs in it now. I carry some Dexron for that, I may try that if I have a heads-up that worries me enough.

If I just bracket raced I wouldn't have to worry about crap like that, would I? LOL

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Thanks for the input.My brother told me that there was no difference between the two in his SS/KA Challenger but I wanted some additional opinions.
Jeff Ross

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

My opinion ain't worth much, but, to me oil is cheap, parts aren't and never have had a problem with a rear that had the proper amount of oil in it since '81. There is a company called "Seals It" that makes all kinds of seals, including ones that designed to go into axle tubes like 9" Ford type rears to keep the oil in the center section and not go running into the axle tubes.John Kissel K242

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Very common in circle track cars.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Next time I have mine apart, I need to see if I can figure out something for my 12 bolt.

Thanks guys!

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Ed -
I'm not sure it's much of an issue in a 12 bolt drag car. Circle track cars try to control the inertia that wants to move the lube to the right rear axle tube.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Jimmy said the 9" Ford rear does it on the bench. My MPH going up immediately after adding lube (and that/this gear set not wearing) made me think he was correct. If Jimmy told me a pizz-ant could pull a freight train I would start trying to figure out how to hook that little sucker up. :-)

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

nothing trick here, many stock/super stock cars have this including mine.;)
again nothing that isn't being used in many stock/super stock cars/rear housings including mine.;)

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Jimmy told me this several times, and I'm pretty sure he is correct. I wish I had tried it before we had that 5.00 gear in the 12 bolt go away. Jimmy said it does affect the 12 bolt as well. He also said to use API GL-6 lube. I tend to listen to Jimmy, I've known him since about 1980 or so, and every time I've ignored his advice, it has cost me, one way or another.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Thanks Alan.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Question. If you put seals or baffles in the tubes to keep the lube at the gear do you need to worry about axle bearings?

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

If your axle bearings are sealed, I wouldn't know why.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

:o been a long day lol.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Quite a few years ago, I read an article in a MuscleCar magazine in which they did a back to back comparison of regular and synthetic lubes in a '69 Hemi Charger with an A-833 4-speed and a Dana 60. IIRC the total difference between dinosaur oils and synthetics in engine/trans and axle was 3 tenths. Car went from 13.00 to 12.70 doing nothing but changing to synthetic lubes.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

My p.o.s. didn't show anything when I switched.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Alan I had this conversation with mr. B about the gl6 lube but I have not been able to locate any , is it available in the Nashville area? Thanks .

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Richmond synthetic gear oil is API GL-6. I suspect that Royal Purple synthetic is also API GL-6, although they say to use it where GL-4 or GL-5 is required, it is not actually API rated. Torco and Redline both state their gear oil is GL-6.

The GL-6 designation is no longer required by any major OE, and as such is considered "obsolete". However, GL-6 is precisely what is required for drag racing, as it is the oil required for high hypoid, high pinion offset, extreme impact, extreme load applications.

You probably will not find a GL-6 lube on the shelf at a typical parts house.

Note that the looser you run your gears, the higher viscosity you need for severe impact protection.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

I must have missed the memo, because to the best of my knowledge the Mobil 1 Synthetic gear lube that I have been using for over 2 decades and over 5000 passes in 2 cars is GL-5 and by some miracle the R&P in my 9" housing under my Firebird in which I 60 foot quicker(1.17 best) and runs quicker than most posting here survived weekly racing for 4 years and over 700+ passes before the pinion gear started to fail.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

[QUOTE=1320racer;416413]I must have missed the memo, because to the best of my knowledge the Mobil 1 Synthetic gear lube that I have been using for over 2 decades and over 5000 passes in 2 cars is GL-5 and by some miracle the R&P in my 9" housing under my Firebird in which I 60 foot quicker(1.17 best) and runs quicker than most posting here survived weekly racing for 4 years and over 700+ passes before the pinion gear started to fail.[/QUOTE
Man some things never change....first off you never stated, pro or street gear. If it's a pro gear I'll have to disregard your posts as they will not survive that number of runs they are way too soft. After assembling hundreds of gears of all types, 10 bolts 12 bolts, 8.8 & 9inch for every thing from a 12 second bracket car to 6 second top sportsman rides, the trick to making them last is proper gear prep and assembly. From my personal experience a pro gear at it's best will go a few hundred runs, it will eventually merely wear out very few actually break, unless the warning signs were ignored. Street gears now many hundreds of runs can be made on them and most meet their demise in the same manner....broken R&P teeth. A properly set up gear set will survive most any lube you chose to use (within reason) however the original question I believe was is there a performance gain to be had from synthetic lubes. Looks like a few responded with their actual experiences with different lubes and 1 response merely referring to how he thinks it should be done. BTW the first question I ask someone wanting a gear set up is "what's it being used in" the final assembly is different car to car.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Richmond Pro Gear bolted to a MW aluminum spool in a MW "Pro Stock" 3rd member and it's a FACT, my gear set survived over 700 passes launching my 3144 lb. MPR built super stock car to low 1.20 60 foots and a best to date of 1.17 with 1 quart of Mobil 1 Synthetic gear lube in it's 9" housing and I expect the current gear set to do the same.

Making blanket statements like Alan and now you have are irresponsible at best, self serving at worst.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

I have a question, and it is about gear life, but more with the ratio's than the lubrication. Do the whole number ratio's have less life the the non whole numbers. For example a 5.0, certain pinion teeth only hit on certain teeth on the ring gear. While a 4.86 ratio, all the pinion teeth will eventually mate with the ring teeth. Does this promote longer gear life, when the teeth of the gears, are moving to different teeth each revolution. I believe, they call the gear sets hunting and non-hunting. I went to 4.86 instead of 5.0 for this reason. But don't know for sure
Steve "Willie" Williams from Indiana

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Common engineering is just like you describe for the consideration of wear. For the special usage of drag racing gears, it is not as much an issue since the gears will break or get retired before they wear out. Except in the case of 1320racer, since his stuff never breaks and he makes so many passes every year that he must commute to work in his race car.:D

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Dwight lets keep the discussion constructive and on topic.

That said, I've been racing nearly every weekend, 36 weekends a season, non stop for the past 22 years. Everything I have stated is true and 1st hand experience.

BTW, I hurt several engines, transmissions and rears during this time and all have been a learning experience.

Last I hurt my engine was on the last day of the 2012 season. Good news, it's been 9 years since I broke a transmission, thanks to Carl Rossler and I use synthetic oils/lubricants in my entire driveline and for most of the past 22 years.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

Ed, first I made no blanket statements, I posted my experience with my race car plus the many, many gear set' I've prepared for various racers. I stated I personally saw no measurable difference between the fluids, while stating that prep and set up is what leads to a long life from a gear set. please enlighten me as to exactly how many gear sets you've installed. A call to any reputable company will confirm that running an aluminum spool decreases gear life, this is "fact and truth" you're 2 favorite things, heavy cars, above 2800 lbs. according to Mark Williams they DO NOT recommend aluminum spools....why? Gear life is shortened. I'm sure with your higher education you can grasp the concept that an aluminum spool simply cannot resist deflection like it's steel counterpart. Now I've given pertinent info regarding the original question, not merely made unbelievable statements about how, FAST, GREAT, RELIABLE, PEPEATABLE, TICKET PRINTING my car is, so who's really making irresponsible and blanket statements? BTW I now know why your fellow racers call you "big head Ed" have a good one. Jeff, sorry for getting this post a bit sideways hope you got some good info out of the replies. Joe

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

This is a blanket statement...

and obviously NOT true based on my 1st hand experience with my race car!

Further, this statement...
infers that I am lying, which is not the case and is a personal attack.

Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but just maybe you aren't as good as you think you are being a gm "college" educated master technician and all. :rolleyes: Just because you haven't been able to achieve the same, you chose to turn a blind eye and turn a deaf ear!

Newsflash...when you come out of your self induced coma and open your eyes and ears, you'll find that there are countless stock and super stock racers as well as many other class racers in other venues, sucessfully running an aluminum spool in cars heavier than 2800 lbs. including yours truely without issue or concern. Further, those that build these cars are installing aluminum spools without concern or issue too!!

As to a manufacturer's disclaimer, they are what they are, written by lawyers who's job it is to protect their clients from frivolous law suits.

That said, I don't care what you believe nor do I care what you or anyone else does with their car. I am simply offering the op as well those following this thread, my first hand experience as to what has worked for me with my race cars for over 2 decades. It is not my concern that this experience proves your and Allan's blanket statements to be untrue! Meanwhile, I don't make decisions whether it be business, personal or about my race program by committee no mind based on what I read on an internet forum, so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing regardless who here finds my statements unbelievable.

BTW, I've installed and setup the R&P in the 12 bolt of my former Chevelle for many years and now do the same with the 9" in my Firebird.

Re: Are synthetic oils and lubricants any quicker
 

It wasn't my "blanket statement", Ed, it was a statement by the API, and by the OEM's, regarding their products.

But, of course, I'm sure you know more than the API, and all of the OE automotive manufacturers, combined.

In any event, I'll not waste any more of Kenny's bandwidth on responding to you. Have a nice rest of your legendary life.