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-   -   Header Retention Rule Revision (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=51915)

Bob Gullett 02-19-2014 03:44 PM

Header Retention Rule Revision
 
As per NHRA in the latest rules update.
SECTION 20: GENERAL REGULATIONS, ENGINE: 1, 1:3 EXHAUST (Page 3) (2/18/2014) All cars vehicles must be equipped with exhaust collectors, headers, or stacks installed to direct exhaust out of car vehicle body to rear of car, away from driver and fuel tank. No part of the exhaust system may be routed through the driver’s compartment. Exhaust collectors/stacks system components must be securely fastened (i.e., metal connector straps, bolted, welded, etc.) to prevent loss of collector/stacks system components during competition. Effective Jan. 1, 2014, All removable multi-piece exhaust collectors/stacks must be securely fastened with either an NHRA-accepted header tether, or a minimum ½” (half-inch) stitch weld located on each primary tube or be permanently attached to the vehicle body or frame with positive fasteners (i.e. exhaust hangers, support brackets, bolts/nuts, etc.) such that they require tools for removal to prevent loss of collector/stacks during competition. A current list of NHRA-accepted header tethers is available on NHRARacer.com.

Ed Carpenter 02-19-2014 03:57 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
So my nuts and bolts are good now?

Bob Gullett 02-19-2014 03:59 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
The way I read it is all you need is a exhaust hangar and a muffler clamp per collector. Attach the hangar to the body or frame with a muffler clamp attached to the collector. $10-20 worth of parts.

buzzinhalfdozen 02-19-2014 05:07 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Oh heck....just welded as set for a Super Comp racer, thought I read 1 inch stitch welds. Oh well guess it will be twice as good. Though I'll follow the rule I still absolutely do not agree with it, I built my entire car, from bending the tubing, fitting it and welding it in...but I can't be trusted to make sure my collectors don't fall off. Don't make sense to this hillbilly. Sorta like wearing a belt and suspenders, either one will get the job done. Heck actually I've got over a half inch of weld involved in my tabs so does that count if I put tabs on all 3 tubes? I'm sure a lawyer could wear them out with the wording they used.

jmcarter 02-19-2014 05:16 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Wow, they just screwed the folks who developed tether systems that would meet NHRA's approval, now hangers will do. Some racers will save some $$ but was it all really worth all the angst over the last 4 months?

Rick Bailey 02-19-2014 06:00 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Seems like there's still the dragster owners to fleese !

Rick

Sean Marconette 02-19-2014 06:19 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
It looks like since our season here in the Midwest not starting for another 2 months has paid off, and waiting to see how this fiasco played out. I can fabricate something and not pay for something I could make myself. It's BS that those whose season started a couple of weeks ago had to endure this crap though.

Sean

Alex Denysenko 02-19-2014 06:43 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
fortunately we sat on our hands on this one as well :) After speaking with Bruce about it at PRI he himself didn't seem quite convinced either :rolleyes: Personally I hope that Lokar gets hung with several thousand of these things ;)

Greg Hill 02-19-2014 06:47 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Who thinks up this s#%t?

jmcarter 02-19-2014 07:01 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Summit and Jegs stocked up on a lot of them....they can't be too happy either. I especially hate it for guys like Keith Fulp, Mark Lelchook and other entrepreneurs who provided a service and were making modest profit. You know NHRA made them jump through hoops to gain approval. Now you buy NAPA approved and forego NHRA approved...go figure. Course I hate it for all us little guys who bit the bullet early, as it turns out they have "deluxe" retention.

Whole thing smells of NHRA's law department ran amok and then backtracked, or track operators voiced the concerns of thousands of bracket racers across the country.

jim powers 02-19-2014 07:08 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
This is complete bull-- does anyone at nhra corporate have even the slimmest idea of what the hell they are doing??? this is a genuine screw job to anyone that abided by the new rules and installed a set of tethers, these people do not have the least concern for the racers---they probably didnt get their payoff so they changed the rules---i really can't believe the gaul of nhra

Rick Bailey 02-19-2014 07:29 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Ponder this ! If one can now fab a muffler/exh/collector hanger and that will pass the rules, then why in the hell can't he make his own teather . !


NHRA has really blown this !

Rick

Mark Markow 02-19-2014 08:02 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
just like we all needed new window nets before , and they changed there mind. how many bought new nets for no reason.

Painter 02-19-2014 08:41 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
So we can build our own race cars. We can drive our race cars. We get the opportunity to pay the excess insurance charge at national events. We go thru tech inspection at every race, our seat belts and helmets are carefully checked to make certain they are in date. But somebody that does not have a clue in hell about racing decides we need teathers, no wait a minute maybe one half inch stitch weld, oh well maybe a muffler hanger will work. I am pretty certain when I first started racing my car had coat hanger wire holding the tailpipe up. It did require "a tool" to remove. So I hope that Calvin Elston does not mind coat hanger wire holding up that beautiful set of headers he built me.

Gary Smith 02-19-2014 10:17 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Just when I was thinking about workin' on the stocker again....:confused:

Dyno 02-19-2014 10:32 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
I just came in from the garage after installing my new tethers. turned on the computer and now read this. Jok's stuff worked well. Dyno

SStockDart 02-20-2014 12:01 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Deleted

Peter Ash 02-20-2014 12:40 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
My lowest priced tethers only sets me back about 2 dozen beers.

Pat Cook 02-20-2014 01:20 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Keystone cops....

Bret Kepner 02-20-2014 03:27 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
For all the controversy this topic has raised, I wonder if anybody asked Rod Boertman his opinion on the rule?

Didn't think so.

Mike Pearson 02-20-2014 08:59 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Markow (Post 421345)
just like we all needed new window nets before , and they changed there mind. how many bought new nets for no reason.

I have been stung on both of these issues. I really don't balk on any safety requirements. I work in the construction industry and this is nothing in comparison to OSHA.

farmco r/sa 02-20-2014 10:05 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deuces wild (Post 421290)
So my nuts and bolts are good now?

this seems nuts......

Randall Klein 02-20-2014 10:10 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Look Brett, I admire your history and passion for the sport, however I find your veiled historical snarky comments a little tiring....and not the Boertman comment alone either

At Topeka got ran over by a kid on a mini scooter, at Denver, in the restricted area under the tower, got a rock off a burnout just above the eye, and on and on over 25 years....stuff happens, and if you've been around for awhile there's plenty of danger at the strip

A nanny state tries to insulate all from any possible consequences....maybe those worried about any potential harm should take up curling...oh wait! There was an injury in curling...maybe just stay in bed

james schaechter 02-20-2014 10:30 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall Klein (Post 421431)
Look Brett, I admire your history and passion for the sport, however I find your veiled historical snarky comments a little tiring....and not the Boertman comment alone either

At Topeka got ran over by a kid on a mini scooter, at Denver, in the restricted area under the tower, got a rock off a burnout just above the eye, and on and on omver 25 years....stuff happens, and if you've been around for awhile there's plenty of danger at the strip

A nanny state tries to insulate all from any possible consequences....maybe those worried about any potential harm should take up curling...oh wait! There was an injury in curling...maybe just stay in bed

True enough.
I am glad NHRA finally opened their eyes to other acceptable solutions to reduce risk and improve safety. Hopefully, they will learn to take a more reasonable approach to this in the future. If you recall, NHRA was suppossed to be dedicated to safety. That does not mean that all risk is eliminated.
I am sure that top management did not want to perform the due diligence that would have landed them where they are now.
I have said it before. The upper management at NHRA should be facilitating the discussions with qualified experts that they could consult within NHRA, their membership, and others. When they stifle this kind of discussion, they are left with a very narrow range of solutions that carry unintended consequences.
It is a shame that NHRA has no regard for the investment in time and resources that some have put forth in making tethers, but that should not be a surprise.
I think the common sense revision is a good one, and I like it. I just hate the way they got there. It is the same process that affects much of their decision making. I love class racing, I really hope that some changes are made in key positions so that the direction of the association meets the needs of the racers and fans. Even though NHRA dominates now, it will ultimately be replaced in some fashion if they continue to miss the mark on every opportunity. Time for a gut check at the top. Maybe the brass will come out to talk at another National event like they did at Indy. Remember that one....

Chad Rhodes 02-20-2014 10:56 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
what a disaster

fredjohnston 02-20-2014 11:35 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think I would rather have a nice looking tether or a small weld on my header/collectors than drilling the body/frame and using a tail pipe hanger.

Just my opinion.

Dwight Southerland 02-20-2014 11:43 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes (Post 421439)
what a disaster

X100

I still do not understand why the tabs with nuts and bolts that hold the collector to the primary tubes is not enough. Jack Mullins used to hold his collectors on with a bent piece of coat hanger; his never fell off. I figure its a matter of statistical percentages: so .000017% of the number of passes have collector incidents under the old rules. Under the new rules, .000004% will have collector incidents. Wow, I feel so safe now! Totally out of control and reasonable dialog.

Ed Wright 02-20-2014 11:49 AM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 421447)
X100

I still do not understand why the tabs with nuts and bolts that hold the collector to the primary tubes is not enough. Jack Mullins used to hold his collectors on with a bent piece of coat hanger; his never fell off. I figure its a matter of statistical percentages: so .000017% of the number of passes have collector incidents under the old rules. Under the new rules, .000004% will have collector incidents. Wow, I feel so safe now! Totally out of control and reasonable dialog.



I agree. If guys would just use steel self locking nuts (not fiber locks<G>) and keep an eye on them and the welds on the tabs, there would be no problems. Just start to bar the guys that loose them from running any more events, they would pay more attention.
And, I bet Jack used a real good grade coat hanger. LOL

gsa612 02-20-2014 12:24 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Now there's a grey area in the definition of the clamp and hanger lol..I was thinking of using a 3 1/2" SS t-bolt clamp on the collector,with a piece of metal strapping to the clamp bolt,and the other side bolted/screwed to the floor.I wonder if that would be acceptable?.What a cluster**** NHRA!.

buzzinhalfdozen 02-20-2014 12:42 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Markow (Post 421345)
just like we all needed new window nets before , and they changed there mind. how many bought new nets for no reason.

Yes, when I stated my disapproval of that rule I was put in my place by a certain legend of drag racing from the East coast, whom shall remain nameless. While I've realized for a while now drag racing is expensive....why keep piling on? Common sense rules that address REAL issues are fine but you cannot make it risk free it's impossible. There have probably been more people injured on pit vehicles than by collectors falling off, a local man died a year or two ago at our local track in a pit vehicle accident, merely celebrating a win and everything went wrong, tragic yes preventable?......

Harry 6674 02-20-2014 12:56 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall Klein (Post 421431)
Look Brett, I admire your history and passion for the sport, however I find your veiled historical snarky comments a little tiring....and not the Boertman comment alone either

At Topeka got ran over by a kid on a mini scooter, at Denver, in the restricted area under the tower, got a rock off a burnout just above the eye, and on and on over 25 years....stuff happens, and if you've been around for awhile there's plenty of danger at the strip

A nanny state tries to insulate all from any possible consequences....maybe those worried about any potential harm should take up curling...oh wait! There was an injury in curling...maybe just stay in bed

I would bet more fans and racers have been injured by quads,scooters and golf carts in the pits one one year then injured by loose collectors since organized drag racing began.

Bob Bender 02-20-2014 01:05 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
My tubes and collectors have been bolted for 10 years now to the frame. Never an issue.

Chuck Garey 02-20-2014 01:42 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
I guess I am missing something, in the first part it is stated they must be securely fastened with bolts so IS my OEM tab/bolted connection good or not?

442OLDS 02-20-2014 01:53 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Gullett (Post 421291)
The way I read it is all you need is a exhaust hangar and a muffler clamp per collector. Attach the hangar to the body or frame with a muffler clamp attached to the collector. $10-20 worth of parts.

I kind of read it that way too,except there probably will be another rule amendment that the hangar and muffler clamp have to be NHRA accepted.The Napa version may not qualify.LOL

buzzinhalfdozen 02-20-2014 02:18 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Garey (Post 421471)
I guess I am missing something, in the first part it is stated they must be securely fastened with bolts so IS my OEM tab/bolted connection good or not?

Excellent question...I've wondered since they state half in stitch welds (but doesn't state welding collector to primary tubes) why doesn't a tab on each tube using fasteners qualify. You still have the minimum weld area and you're still using fasteners and it still requires "tools" to remove. Think I'll wait this out as long as possible and see what the FINAL decision is.

Chad Rhodes 02-20-2014 02:20 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
looks like that might be applying to cars with full exhaust only

Troy Henderson 02-20-2014 02:38 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 421449)
I agree. If guys would just use steel self locking nuts (not fiber locks<G>) and keep an eye on them and the welds on the tabs, there would be no problems. Just start to bar the guys that loose them from running any more events, they would pay more attention.
And, I bet Jack used a real good grade coat hanger. LOL

Or just use safety wire with drilled bolts? Seems like another easy solution.

Ed Wright 02-20-2014 02:56 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy Henderson (Post 421485)
Or just use safety wire with drilled bolts? Seems like another easy solution.

That too.

Stephen & Horace Johnson 02-20-2014 03:03 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes (Post 421483)
looks like that might be applying to cars with full exhaust only

Chad you are exactly right. . I got an email and I made a phone call...

Chad Rhodes 02-20-2014 03:22 PM

Re: Header Retention Rule Revision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen & Horace Johnson (Post 421490)
Chad you are exactly right. . I got an email and I made a phone call...

NHRA needs to hire a technical writer that a) knows what they are writing about, b) English is their first language, because that rule revision is very poorly worded


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