Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Hey Guys,
I'm trying to get my car finished up and I really need a new set of headers. I'm just wondering if there is any E.T. in going with SS?

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

I cannot see where there would be any ET in a material change from mild steel to stainless.

The ET in headers is purely design, tube diameter, and tube length.

Coating is worth as much as 2.5%.

The correct steps in tubing diameter can be worth as much as 2%.

In order to take full advantage of merge collectors, a cam change may be necessary.

In order to make a set of "tri-Y" or 4-2-1 headers work, as opposed to s set of 4 into 1 headers, you would probably also need a cam change.

Jere Stahl has closed his doors, the only thing he's shipping now is pre bent kits he had left over.

If you want 4 into 1, Kromer is building headers again, or Mark Lelchook.

For 4-2-1 stuff, you have Calvin Elston and Mark Lelchook.

I have friends running headers from all three of those shops, and all are happy.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

For a Ford you might give REF headers in Arizona a call 928-692-0111. I have had them on a Mustang and Torino and have been happy with the product and the service. They have the jigs and if you need a change they can do it over the phone. Like going from a auto to a stick.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

There is performance is stainless, just as coating
Helps ,stainless keeps heat in way better than
Mild steel. The heat retention of a stainless header
Is every bit as good or better than coated mild
Steel and they won't rust

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Save your money and just use the mild steel. Have them coated by a good company and they will last a long time. REF in AZ has all the jigs for your car also.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

No, the heat retention of stainless steel is no where near that of mild steel with a ceramic thermal barrier coating.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

The coefficient of thermal conductivity for mild
Steel is 26.98 stainless ls 9.3 and mild steel
Conducts 219 % more heat pr ft than stainless.
I have shot my header tubes with a infrared
Heat gun both coated and stainless and not
Once have I seen mild better. Ever see a pro
Stocker with coated headers, if they were better
I'm sure they would be using them!

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Larry Morgan ran NitroPlate coated headers for years. And said the coating worked.

Believe what you will, I'll not argue it further.

NitroPlate coats a lot of stainless headers, too.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Stainless headers are definitely more expensive, but well worth it. I bought a set about 8-10 yrs. ago and they still are like brand new. Another benefit is that they don't get rust build-up inside, which hurts performance and can get into your engine during cranking. Once you go stainless....you won't go back.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

A good set of properly coated mild steel headers are every bit as good as stainless and roughly half the price. Jim brings up a good point, stainless will last forever.
The question that I always ask a customer when they want to build stainless vs. mild steel is, how long are they going to run that combination and how much is their combination going to change over the years? A good set of coated mild steel headers will last 8-10 years. Will you have a different combination within that time? Will your combination have changed to the point of needing a different header in that time?
There's an awful lot of really expensive garage art hanging on racers walls out there!

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

I put a set of REF headers on my car just yesterday. They fit like a glove. The quality is great also. After years of fighting my old Hookers these REF's were a dream to install. Everyone I've talked to say they make good power too. I highly recommend them and have them coated.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

I'm sure if I were a pro stock guy, running stainless headers, and was looking for an advantage I'd get creative. Maybe I'd coat just the inside of my headers. The would gain me the thermal efficiency, without telling all my competitors what I up to. But that's just me, and what I would do. Go on believing what you will though

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Any thoughts about coating on a stainless header?
would there be any advantage there... other than that you would have to worry about the headers rusting from the inside out?

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

I've built lots of both ms & ss headers. In spite of price, ss is definitely the way to go, virtually indestructible. Having run both ss and ms headers on my own car, I can tell you that they hold heat way longer than ms, you can't get anywhere near them even 20 minutes after coming back from a run. Regarding tri Y's, don't consider them unless you are willing to commit the time to tuning things in, they are very unforgiving if you miss on the combination. In an ideal world, I would recommend ss headers and having them coated to at least keep the under hood heat radiation under control. The other negative to ss (besides the cost) is that the tubing tends to be 16 ga and that makes the overall weight higher, I have always prefered to use 18 ga on race headers just to keep the weight down. If money is really not an issue, consider the Nascar tri Y paper thin Inconell version, can't even imagine what those cost.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Approx $9000+/-

But they can be very brittle.

My Elston Stainless both sides together weighed less than one side of our old Heddman headers.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

I have been build headers for several years now ,steel and stainless , I always suggest the stainless ,, you don't have to coat them and no rust issues will offset how often you will have to coat steel and rust will build up in steel no matter the company who does them ,, also if your building new engines and dynoing them with coated ones you will burn the coating off the top bends , but ceramic coated headers do offer the heat being contained in side the tube ,, stainless doesn't offer any heat barrier , if your r&d ing with header sizes a lot then steel is the way to go gmonde


www.gmondeperformance.com

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

I talked with Kromer a few years ago and he needed the car on premises...do others mentioned here (Lelchook, REF, Elston etc) have that same requirement?

Kromer also requested spec sheet on port design, flow, etc.....others?

Thanks in advance for any opinions

I run my 1995 Jack Davis headers, it sounds like I may be giving something up, they are looking kind of rough

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

gmonde... Your site link shows a virus. My AVG caught it...

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

I worked with Kromerkraft from about 1995 to roughly 2005. I'm guessing we built 1 set of stainless for every 80-100 sets of mild steel headers during that period. A good ceramic coating will last several years. I can't remember any customers complaining about rust during this period. We never recommended SS during that period of time. After the first set, we tried to talk the handfull of customers out of SS.

And yes, he likes having the car on site to fit the headers. They are custom fit.
We had a fixture for Gary Russell LT1 F-bodies in that time. Gary sents numerous customers to us.

We never had a customer do a back to back test,....so I don;t know if there is a perf. benefit.

Generally the Tri-Y's help the mid range and peak torque and lose a little max power.
(based my experience and it varies from car to car if there is a benefit).

Thanks, Ron

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Randall at least for Mark Lelchook at Performance Welding he does have some cars he can use to build headers if the customers car is not there. I think his website may have more information. I don't think he will build headers out of anything but stainless anymore.
Bill

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

When I inquired gmonde wanted the car. I have a Chevy II so not your everyday deal.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

yeah I do need the car to do the work , this way your header fits your car ,just .250 in engine position can create lots of interference issues ,,, I have to look in the web virus deal
gmonde

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Had a set built on one of my cars by a builder mentioned here. They built while working on jack stands. When we put the car on the ground only had 1/2 inch ground clearance. Wanted me to try them first and if needed they would redo them. I had them redo them rather than make another trip and they Made me pay to have them redone to work on the track... Last trip to that shop...
Be careful....

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

My Elston Tri-Y's averaged *15 hp and +13 ft-lbs tq over Arnold Greene's best set.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

No problems here on the virus......

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

I agree with gmonde, building headers off of photos and dimensions without having the actual chassis is pretty much a guarantee for disaster. Interestingly, even on Stockers, the engines mysteriously seem to be reloceted from stock location so nothing can be assumed. I can't tell you how many times I have been asked to do what is explained to me as a simple rework on the bench that I end up doing three times before it fits correctly. Building headers is a pain in the *** under the best of conditions, doing it without the car is asking for trouble.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

I've had custom headers built several times by Dawson racing headers simply supplying him with a Hooker version for my car. They all fit like a glove. Tom Dawson was an exceptional header builder, but unfortunately he passed a couple of years ago.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Is there anyone that supplies stainless bends in 18, 20 or 22ga that don't cost a fortune?
The 16ga when you have 40" plus primary length is way too heavy.

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

Columbia River is where I bought my stainless bends.
http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/

Re: Stainless Steel Headers... worth it or no?
 

prices look good but according to the web site they only offer limited sizes in 18ga ,,most of the vendors that stock any 18 ga are on the west cost