NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

$1000.00 what exactly happened here?

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I just talked to Don on the phone. No fines have been levied against him. So wherever you got that info its incorrect.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

NHRAracer.com


http://www.nhraracer.com/content/gen...988&zoneid=175

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

That was nice of Nhra to post that before calling Don. I'm not surprised though.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

"The NHRA imposed a one thousand ($1,000) fine against Don Davidson for violating NHRA Rules, particularly Section 10A, page 2 of the 2014 NHRA Rulebook on Camshaft/Lifters and Carburetor. Tech inspectors discovered during the tear down process the intake valve lift and carburetor venturi exceeded NHRA specifications."

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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Anyone that knows Don,knows he would not knowingly do anything against the rules. I helped him with tear down and fully expected the car to pass. The carb was on the car when he bought it and had never measured the venturi's(how many of us have bought a carb and not measured it?) The lift on the intake was .007 ovr limit on the intake and .013 under on the exhaust. Don's main problem wound up being that he trusted the parts and work of others to be up to par. I think NHRA has way over done it in this case to a guy that just loves to race and supports the NHRA in every way. His car started running good because of good old fashion hard work from the front bumper to the rear,not a carb swap! A bunch of you guys know Don and know he is the kind of guy you want for a friend,honest and hard working.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I guess the question about this is the process as administered by NHRA. What then determined a need for a fine and if a fine is to be administered, what is the process to establish the amount?
If NHRA wants this to be a deterrent, why not spell it out? Unless the car had a dominator on it, it would seem that the punishment did not fit the crime here. The lift sure wasn't extreme.
Is this in the rulebook or amendments to the rulebook in a very specific way or is it written by a Chicago Politician?

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Exactly. If this is going to be the way NHRA is going to be, they should let everybody know prior to the administration. Executive order, I guess. If you are needing money, nothing is off the table.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Based on what I have read.....the crime does not warrant the fine....note: I have been DQ'd for a half CC in the combustion chamber....later recinded. In this case....7 thou on the cam lift does not seem like much, but 1 thou is too much, but 1 thou would not get a fine...IMO....so the real question is....How big was the problem with the Carb? I'm just saying...

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

The Venturi area around the booster was .017 over size. I am not even sure how you could enlarge that area.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I talked to Don 3 times today and he is sick over this. You will never meet a nicer human being. He would never do anything intentional. I feel bad for him. He will be back.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

When did they start levying fine over things like this? In the past I remember them giving 6 or 12 months off. I guess it's all monetary now. Jim

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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

:rolleyes: Now I understand NHRA's sudden love for sportsman racers. Because they work 'em like a southside Chicago pimp over his girls on a busy night.

I'd send back my credentials, membership papers and tell 'em what to do with that fine......:mad:

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Many of us have been in this situation and I agree the punishment doesn't fit the crime .My advise - ask for the hearing and I'm sure common sense will prevail .He'll have to put up the $1,000 to get his "day in court" but in the end they'll return it .

As for Don feeling bad - he shouldn't - it doesn't have the signs of an intentional cheat - a few thousandths of extra cam lift or venturi area isn't going to pick his car up any .

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

More sportsman racer abuse

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Makes me rethink setting any records. I know my car is OK just if there is an instrumentation issue at tech and a thou off could cost me a thou it might not be worth the chance. I hope he beats this. Quite overzealous on NHRAs part.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Out of curiosity, does NHRA have a requirement to calibrate their measurement devices on a periodic basis and provide documentation of such?
Having worked in Industry where precision measurement is required to determine part acceptability, procedures required calibration on a regular basis.
Additionally, utilization of such instruments require specific training and documentation of such training.
I'm new to stock racing and have not had the "teardown opportunity". But, if someone was to slap a $1k fine on me.....I'd be asking these questions as a part of an appeal.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Your statement makes complete sense. When the tool could make the difference between $1000 fine and disgrace or being a hero I'm afraid it only seems sensible to make sure the tools are correct and accurate. Jim

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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I failed a teardown at the gators several years ago. My exhaust valve was .001 below the low limit. Wesley told me if I could find a caliper or mic that would read the correct size he would let me pass. I checked that valve with several calipers and they all measured the same. Needless to say I got bounced. Fixed the heads for the next race with new valves and picked up .08 so not all infractions make you go faster.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Always knew you were a big time cheater! See ya Saturday! Jim

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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Here's a tip that most already know but I found out the hard way when I was running the Cadillac, never let them check your cam or heads when they are above ambient temperature! Cool them off as much as possible. After I set a record, the cam was checked right away as it was very easy in the Caddy, it checked +.002. No good. First thing the next morning it checked -.002! Same valve. A cool cam and rocker made .004 difference! Jim


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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

If a person has that luxury. They never asked me if it was OK to check it now or when it cools down.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Hey Jim. I wonder how much they would have charged me. When they tossed me for having to little compression?

Answer? Priceless LOL

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

FYI.......When I worked for IHRA I was employed by the Dept. of the Navy (yeah....a Govt. job for 18 years) in a calibration lab. We have to be certified each year by a higher lab with the Navy. Some equipment we were allowed to certify ourselves. Other things we had to send to Norfolk Navy base or up to the D.C. Navy yard to be certified. Our lab its self had to be certified to be at 40-42% humidity and 68 to 70 degrees. Different labs have similar ratings but some are different by a few % and degrees. I checked ALL of my tools I used before each race. The tools themselves used in teardowns have a tolerance figure of their own such as a dial indicator has + -- .001. It was NOT required to check our tools at that time but I did it just to be sure. Its still up to the racer to be sure of what he has. The electronic calipers used mostly today and back in the 1980's and 1990's I found to be mostly JUNK. Use a DIAL CALIPER. A lot of the elec. tools are crap. Check it with a gauge block or standard. The rule of thumb is to be at or under the spec. in most cases. Cylinder combustion chambers of course have to be over the spec. I always gave the racer time to cool cylinder heads. Besides who wants to handle HOT engine parts. Use a "CERTIFIED" Burette to check C.C's and not these cheap crappy ones that are sold by some mail order places. Fisher Scientific is a good brand but cost a little more.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Yes, it would be interesting to know how or even if NHRA documents the accuracy of their measurement instruments. In order to back up their findings at any given time they would need to provide documentation that their instruments have been certified by a lab that has ISO 17025 certification and that certification is current. The measuring equipment also should be required to be verified before use to a certified standard. This is all basic stuff contained in ISO TS 16949 which pertains to the automotive industry . And what about written procedures for their use of their equipment? All of this needs to be brought up if you contest a fine as I doubt they could back up any of their findings.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

You make a valid point.

In the cities of Medina and Bellevue, Washington, they passed a law called the "Bill Gates" law.

Bill Gates was known to always be speeding and getting tickets.
He will send his lawyer to court along with an electronics expert and the first thing they would question was the accuracy of the equipment, last time it was calibrated, the procedures for calibration and training for whomever perform the calibration.

When the police department could not provide the information, the judge had to throw away the ticket. After passing the law, other cities, county and State Patrol had to adopt the guidance. Therefore, when you get a speeding ticket, it will have the calibration information on the ticket.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

In the past this would be an infraction that would get you tossed from the event, but would have no further consequences. This fine is B.S. Such poor character folks running the show now. We all know this is not intended cheating and should be treated as such.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Dempsy Hardy learned the cylinder head in the cooler trick when he got tossed 40+ years ago for 1/2 a cc over on the heads of his Nationals class winning GTO Judge. They were legal when cooled off. Marty Snowball got tossed for class at the Nationals in the same era for ONE TRW pushrod accidently mixed in with the 15 Ford ones. Now theres a real performance advantage for you

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I guess I'll ask for a "Certified" tape measure (not from Harbor Freight) to find that 1/4 inch of wheelbase (Rt. side only) I got tossed for. It took about $300 worth of parts on the worn out /failing RT front suspension to correct the WB problem. Next time I better plan for NHRA's added diagnostic fees, too...

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I can only assume that this is a new policy being instituted by NHRA?
Well, IMHO, whoever is running the show had better figure out whether we are Professionals or Sportsmen. I don't see how the sanctioning body could levee a monetary fine against a Sportsmen racer, there's just not enough money to be made. Now if they're going to consider us Pros, then they had better start paying us accordingly!
I believe that Mr. Davidson would get NHRA laughed out of court.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Is there a posted schedule of fines? I can't imagine the cost of a more flagrant infraction

Can SRAC intervene or at least get some clarification when infractions jumped from DQ and time off to monetary fines?

Nees is right, this is not the way to treat amature Sportsman racers

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I don't get this. The oil down penalty is something like $1500. So if a FC blows an engine sky high, stalls the track for an hour and causes anything from a string of round losses in that lane due to traction problems or an accident when a squirrel of a ProMod hits that spot, it's $500 more than a Sportsman technical fine?

Dale

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Was there some kind of confrontation when told it failed?

There was mention of cooling the heads before measuring. Why not hook up your chiller before tearing it down? At least run cool water through it?
When I raced a '56 Chevy, it was so easy to work on, and I was about 45 years younger, I thought nothing of handing over a cylinder head too warm to comfortably handle. I was lucky enough to pass every tear down.
Today I would hook up my chiller before taking this thing I have now apart. It's hard enough to work on without being hot, especially for a very old guy.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I don't like the risk on cracking a head with sudden chilling....am I wrong?

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

what a friggin B.S. joke... to think of the funds & effort it cost people to race and get this slapped on them? nhra must need the money...

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Randall, people use chillers all the time. I wouldn't hit a hot engine with ice water. It's hard to get mine over 150 degrees. Maybe yours gets hotter. I can flip my fans & water on and drop it to 110/115 pretty quick. Hook up the chiller and drop it to 50 or so in a few minutes. It will be back to ambient by the time you get it off.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Where can a guy get/build a chiller?

Thanks in advance!

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Patterson Racing Engines sells them. I built mine from an ice chest Big Lots had on sale, the 12 volt bilge pump from Harbor freight (has garden hose fittings on both sides) and plastic hose/tubing from Ace Hardware, and hose fittings & quick disconnects from Lowes Home Center. Those garden hose quick disconnects allow the hoses to be unplugged to be stowed in the cooler when not in use. I bought the Jiffy Tite fittings and the piece that goes in the radiator hose from Patterson.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Thank you Ed. I just started on a new project.:D

Only being a sophomore racer this thread knocked me off my seat! I had no clue that a sportsman could be fined at that level for this type infraction.

But I guess as they say... "Ignorance is not a defence." :eek: I better do more homework.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Many cars (allI I ever raced) run quicker cool. If you have a tough heads up, many chill their engines at the back of the staging lanes. Mine likes to leave the starting line about 90 degrees. Class run offs at Indy, gets kinda wet back there. :-)

Some just ice the manifold. Just need to find what your car likes.