If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

I'll leave the name out, but Drag Pak Tops Houston Field! Did anyone who read this article find anything striking, or should I say, just wrong??? OK, if not, here's what I read:

A 2008 Drag Pak Challenger with a 12 year old motor running SS/KA! Hmmmmmm! With tech at the races concentrating on making sure you're claiming the correct year car, fresh air/no fresh air engine and hood, etc. how did this slip by????

Super Stock is supposed to be same year engine combo as the car claimed! So how can you run Top Stock 12 years ago with the motor you're running in an 08 car in SS/KA?

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

Obviously you are talking about my car. The motor is indeed about 12 years old and it was my Top Stock motor which was the model for the 360 Drag Pak motor. It has been upgraded to 2009 DP Specs and has been down and I can assure you it is quite legal and belongs in the car. I also have one that came with the DP new, and the block is a 2007 Block, as are all the (3) 360 DP motors. What am I missing here? I am actually quite proud of my old piece. The heads have been replaced, the manifold (which Wilson made for me in 2005) has EFI bungs added (it is SS after all), and all the other stuff. But we have run the motor for 12 years, and in Top Stock configuration it ran a best of 9.52 @ 138 mph in my Duster. The Duster also ran the motor for a few years in GT/FA. I think it ran a best of 9.80's in that configuration. Last year we noticed that it was leaking oil out of both headers, so we gave it a set of pistons for the first time in 8 years. Anything else?

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

I was just quite curious how a 12 year old motor could be claimed as an 08 to run SS/KA? There seems to be an aweful lot of interest by NHRA to make sure everyone is claiming the correct years for the class they are running. Found it kind of amusing that a National Dragster article stated this. I just thought that they would check numbers on blocks/heads, etc. to make sure we were "legal."

This is Bryan, by the way. Tim left himself logged on!! LOL.

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

When I was researching my build the D6 tech told me the year of the block wasn't all that important as long as the specs were year correct. Heads were a different animal.

Dale

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

Blocks - no, Heads - yes

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

If you ran a 9.52 in ANYTHING stock , I'd love to see those incredibly "liberal" IHRA rules.

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

You run a 12 year old engine BLOCK in a 08 car the same way you run a bowtie block or ford or mopar perf block, does'nt matter what year block it is,it's what inside of it that matters,does'nt matter what year heads as long as right casting #
MIke Taylor 3601

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

Top Stock quickly evolved away from its original intent, and eventually went away. With everything that's allowed in Stock today, calling IHRA rules (particularly those for a specialty shootout class that doesn't even exist anymore) "liberal" is a little disingenuous.

If you haven't noticed, there are NHRA Stockers running 8.50's.

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

If memory serves me at all, the final rules in Top Stock for the 360 Mopar, which was a crate motor, was about 13 to 1 compression, .600 cam (still the cam we use) hydraulic rollers (which we still use), Edlebrock heads and we were allowed the runner volume for a Bow Tie, any cast manifold, an 850 race carb, any springs, 9 inch tires and we were about 2900 lbs with the driver. The DP motor uses the 847 Mopar heads (knock off of the Edlebrock), we lost the domes on the pistons (about 11 to one) , we have .490 lift in Stock, we now have roller rockers in stock, (still using the same ones), and of course much smaller runners than the Bow Tie heads, and the pistons are 100 grams heavier than Top Stock for Stock Eliminator, in Stock uses a stock M1 manifold which has been around for years). It's not as good as an Edlebrock. And of course EFI. There will be a test tomorrow on this, so study for it. One interesting thing on this whole mess, when the 360 specs were listed, we took the old motor, machined the domes off, sent the manifold back to Wilson for EFI bungs, changed the heads and made it a GT motor. Put the thing on the dyno, fair, so at the end we threw the 850 Quick Fuel back on the thing. Made about 15 more hp. Called Wilson, and found out the carb will peak higher because of the atomizing fuel in the venturi as opposed to the injector at the base of the manifold. When Nascar went to EFI, the injectors are just under the throttle body. Interesting.

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

NHRA does require block casting numbers from the OEM for Stock / SS replacement approval.

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

I'm well aware of the block not having to be same year, but the article says "motor,"not block!

Hey Jeff, just curious, what is the horsepower in Super Stock on the 12+ year old 360 combination? What are the differences in the "Old" engine and the 09 version?

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

alot of rust

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

With everything new in the DP spec motor, we got it up to 600. I think the new pistons helped a bunch. I think the TS version in it's day was about 615 circa 2005 or 2006. Funny story. The cam we took out was too rusty to use again, so we got a new one. Mickey must have been looking. Originally when we did the conversion in 2009 to get to Indy was about 580. We think loosing the compression was a bigger loss than the smaller runners. Of course sitting up for a few years wasn't real good.

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

Lol. I'll rephrase my question. What are the NHRA horsepower ratings of the two "different" combinations? I'm assuming the older 360 was a carb combo?

And I'm sure the hp it makes is more like 750-800 range!

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

If you think you can just crank up the boost on the blown cars to run an 8.50 you're kidding yourself and I've been around long enough to see how "untransparent" the rules are. Stock , running an 8.50 , yeah right.
And NO , I don't follow stock.
I don't really think the word "disingenuous" applies by its definition........perhaps you were looking for a noun like sarcasm.
BTW , the new Mustangs , Camaros and Challengers may impress you but they do nothing for me..........regardless of how or WHAT they do to interpret the rules to run what they do. Come back and cuss me , slam me , insult me all you want.....it falls on deaf ears.

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

What are you even talking about? :confused:

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

Simple. It's like NHRA rules, only they apply to everyone, in every division, no exceptions. And, Top Stock was simply A, B, C, and crate cars without the extra luggage and could run 9.5 anything.

And, am I right in thinking the block casting number still needs to be on the approval list??? After all, I could build a 289 with a Boss 302 block and visually it passes.

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

If you are talking about the 360 DP motor, there are none to my knowledge at 700. Get out the trusty Moroso slide rule. That thing still works better than most. I don't think there is a stock Gen III Hemi up there except maybe the 426 Shoot Out motor. You smokin that stuff again? I warned you about that.

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

Michael, I think he doesn't believe that any of the new cars are capable of running 8.50's. Having witnessed a stocker run 8.60's testing in so-so air and decent track, I know that atleast one is capable of running 8.50's. If one can do it, then the others are not far behind. He doesn't follow stock by his own admission, so he would have zero knowledge of what kind of power they make or what kinds of legal weight runs have ever been made. I can't speak about the Dodge', but I know a Ford that can do it. BTW, nice job at BG (5 large doesn't hurt much).

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

Oh , its not that I don't believe it , I'm sure the rules have been "bent" to achieve WHATEVER they are running...........but in the spirit of "stock" you can bet your fannys they are far removed from stock. Apparently the "rules" of stock have been biased for the NEW cars performance to escalate to levels totally unobtainable with a super tune and cam change..............like stock USED to be with traditional muscle cars that were doing well to run in the 11's let alone 10s. Now they have blowers and lots and lots of spaces between the lines to build contemporary engines with.
I mean crap , the Hemi cars in Super Stock are competitive with low 8's, now you want me to believe an 8.50 stocker is truely STOCK or some close fascimile to stock? LMAO:rolleyes:

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

Well, it's 2014, and this is what Stock is NOW!

And whether we like it or not, this is the arena we play in. If the OEM can submit and the sanctioning body can approve, after the fact, an engine combination that was never installed in a particular vehicle from the factory, then it's obvious that this is how things are NOW! My only hope is that one result of this "liberalizing" of the rules will be to allow some smart racers to take advantage of other interesting combinations that could be made available, all with just the stroke of a pen!

Re: If you read National Dragster, this is interesting S/SS!
 

Walking thru the pits Friday..@ RP I was ..shocked, shocked I tell you.. about the state of $tock eliminator..Going By the 8 sec NJ Mustang(s) and PC Richards' stunning Stocker and SS presentation, ATI's Camaro.. I would have to say that the TC and Blower rebuilders have a bright future.

I love modern technology and (most of all) The Innovative brains that challenge the Status Quo. and the Companies that participate and support the Skill and drive of modern drag racing.

(BTW..I think "Big" might fall in that category 55 years ago, and in a "electrifiable " world..Today. )