Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

I need to pick a manifold to slip between a 600 cfm Holley (This Carb) and a 302 Ford in a 68 Mustang coupe. Holley and Weiland are from the same company, so I thought the Stealth would be a good match, but the Edelbrock Air Gap RPM is well reviewed, too. Both are about the same height, so fitment would be the same. It will be a 1/4 mile drag car that is street legal and must see about 40 miles of highway time to get to the track until I can afford a trailer.

Thanks.

Dale

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Dale…How much cam, convertor, rear end ratio? Based on your description, I'd go with the Edelbrock RPM. It has a broad RPM operating range and the respond well to carb spacers for additional plenum volume. They make excellent Torque being a dual plane. They work great out of the box. MB.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

we stock sell and use a lot of the Wieand 8020 Stealth 180* high rise intakes along with most of the other popular aftrmarket SBF intakes. FYI the Edelbrock Performer is a stone makes zero power over a stock cast iron FoMoCo 4V intake
We have found it to work the best for most mild street applications It is a virtual duplicate of the old Ford muscle parts C90X intake which was the best ever street intake for a SBF and very similar to the Shelby GT-350 high rise intake and it accomodates most any 4150 or 4160 Holley and Autolite/Motorcraft 4 barrel carb. Another plus is that even with a stock air cleaner they'll still fit under most any hood. 219-861-1214 Days OR monymkrssla@aol.com anytime

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Comp Cams Magnum solid roller
.586 lift
288/288 duration

TCI Streetfighter trans and converter +1500 stall

Ford 9 inch with 3.89 gears comes next Thursday from Strange

Alex: Good to hear from you. Do you mean the Weiland is comparable to the aluminum manifold Shelby used for the 68 recall that finally put a good carb on a 302?

Dale

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

RPM Air Gap

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

BTW: The heads are AFR 1399.

Dale

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Dale…RPM AirGap. Is your engine internally balanced? MB.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Yes. Eagle crank, Crower rods Keith Black dome pistons. Going to run bracket this year and switch to flat top pistons to get legal in GT for the future.

Dale

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Edelbrock Performer and Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap are 2 different intakes. Dale, your engine sounds like much more than a mild street application,, certainly wilder than the 302s built back in the day. With your setup designed for more rpm, cam wise and converter wise, I'd go with the Air-Gap,,, but its your choice, of course. Take care.
Danny Durham

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Stealth!!!

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Yes. Alex gets sidetracked sometimes. He meant to describe the Performer as a no-power adder. This I know. I have one in a box around here somewhere. Unless I sold it back to the guy I bought the car from when I sold the motor back to him which he then flipped on Craig's List which is where I got the car to begin with...

Coming soon to a red light near you...

Dale

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

I have ran all 3 and the victor jr intake on my SBF...in your application the air gap is what you need... if it was a stickshift id go with a victor jr

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

I've run the Victor Jr. on my 302s and 351s but I had a lot more converter. 1500 isn't much on a sbf, maybe more like 2500 - 3000 for a street/strip application with a big cooler. The air gap sounds like a good choice though.

Jeff

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Correction: Stall on the converter is 3000-3200

Dale

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

That sounds better.

Why the solid roller cam? A friend in Albuquerque runs a hydraulic roller in his low 11 sec. 347 Fox body. Much easier to maintain. Sets the valves at the start of the season then leaves it alone. Car is street legal too. I could get you the numbers if you'd like.

Jeff

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Dale…AirGap still, will work great with cam...MB.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

A solid roller was recommended by a friend who is a local points leader and Ford technical expert. I was looking for higher revs, too. I've seen too many SBF run down by Cameros in the traps.

Air Gap is more expensive than Stealth, but at this point in the build a hundred bucks is a drop in the bucket.

Can anyone verify that the Holley dash number carb 0-80540-1 (600 cfm) is the legal one in GT. It's specs match the one listed for the 68 Cougar in the blueprint thing. Accepted Products states "All Holley dash numbers are accepted unless otherwise noted"

Thanks for all the input.

Dale

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

I talked with my friend. He didn't give me a part number but said it was a custom grind from Comp Cams. Hydraulic roller with a little over a .600 lift. A lot less up keep than a solid roller and he's the points leader in Pro at Albuquerque Dragway.

Jeff

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

600 is max lift for the AFR 1399 heads. I'm at 586 or so and that's close enough for me with dome pistons. I have plenty of time to tweak my car so setting valve lash is no real chore.

Dale

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

A quick question to you; is this your first time racing in Super Stock GT?
Have you talked to any racers that run the class as regards to what is allowed or are you making your own interpretation of the rule book?

If you show up to race in Super Stock GT with the particular Holley carburetor you are referring to, you will be sent home before you even make your first run!

You either run the original OEM carb as shown in the spec sheet or run the approved carb shown in page 126 of the current NHRA accepted products list.

The accepted replacement carbs are shown in the link below:

http://www.nhra.com/userfiles/file/N...edProducts.pdf

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Which engine version you plan to run in GT class?
I notice you talk about dome pistons; in GT class you can only run a piston configuration as applicable to the engine make, model and year as shown in the NHRA spec. Not a piston configuration that fits the chamber of the aftermarket head.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

I think a lot of bracket racers think their stuff is closer to what we have to run, to be legal, than they actually are.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

I don't think you can go wrong with either the Stealth or the RPM AirGap.
THey are both good choices for an all around intake for SBF's.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

SSDiv6:
I ordered flat top pistons to begin with, but they were always backordered. I switched to the 1970 BOSS 302 which NHRA says has a 5.090 rod and ordered domed pistons. After receiving the pistons I realized that NHRA made a mistake and my build would be illegal. Short rods must run flat top pistons. Rather than try to rub the blueprint page in some techs face, I have opted to finish the engine with the pistons I have and bracket race this year, then switch to flat tops over the Winter and run GT using the 302/230 combo designated for the 68 Cougar. It lists the 600 cfm Holley carb offered on the GT350 that never made it into the blueprint lists. This puts me back where I started at probably GT/M or LA. Lot of nice competition in those classes.

Ed Wright:
As for bracket racers thinking they are more legal than they are, well, I’m not legal and I know it so I’m going bracket racing. I’ll class race when I can.

Personally, I think we should encourage bracket racers to see what changes they need to make to slip over into SS or GT. Some of these cars are a carb and hood scoop away from class racing.

Dale

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

You will not find a Stock or Super Stock eliminator piston on the shelf unless it is a Speed Pro type piston. So the dome pistons you ordered and ready to use, are they for a Boss 302 or an AFR combustion chamber? The AFR cylinder head is a 20 degree head while the Boss 302 is a canted valve, Cleveland series head. They are two different valve layouts.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

The other issue in regard to being SS legal is that I believe the AFR 1399 head comes with larger valves than are legal if you want to run them as a SS replacement head. That means that you will have to replace all of the seats and valves to be SS legal. The performance drawback is that there will be a big lip under the new smaller seat, without a bunch of welding or epoxy, I can imagine the flow will suck after the seat change.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

AFR 1399 heads on a Ford Racing BOSS block. The one listed in the guide as a replacement for small block Ford. It was less confusing when they just called it the Ford Racing Sportsman block. You can build a SS BOSS with AFR heads, but it sets the purists on fire.

The pistons are Keith Black with a modest dome, 2.6cc I think. The block is 4.000 bore, which makes it a little harder to find pistons. The SRS flat tops I wanted kept slipping month to month in shipping and I ran out of patience.

My rear axle assembly comes tomorrow and I should have it all together and broken in just in time to put it up for the Winter. At least there will be a hotrod in the garage instead of a pile of parts.

Dale

Jim: AFR makes 165 and 185cc SBF heads. The 165cc model number 1399 is listed as a bolt on legal SS replacement head. No valve voodoo needed.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Let me clarify a lot of confusion as regards to your interpretation of the rule book and the engine specifications.

The Ford Racing Boss 302 is a Windsor replacement block that can be used in any 260, 289 or 302 applications. It replaces the old Ford Motorsports R 302 block.

Although the AFR cylinder head comes with larger valves, you still have to meet the valve size specs and combustion chamber size as the original OEM cylinder head as shown in the NHRA spec just as Jim Caughlin has stated.

Your pistons also have to meet the dome configuration and dish/dome/valve relief sizes as shown in the engine spec.

NHRA Stock and Super Stock engines are no longer an off-the-shelf engine you can build. They have become high tech engines that require a lot of more work and finese that other engines.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Personally, I think we should encourage bracket racers to see what changes they need to make to slip over into SS or GT. Some of these cars are a carb and hood scoop away from class racing.

Dale[/QUOTE]

.....and an engine bay full of money.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

68 Cougar 302/230 stock heads
Intake: 1783
Exhaust: 1457
Head cc: 49.5
Rocker Ratio: 1.6

AFR 1399
Intake: 1900
Exhaust: 1600
Head cc: 58
Rocker Ratio: 1.6

Edelbrock 60217 heads (stamped NHRA Accepted)
Intake: 1900
Exhaust: 1600
Head cc: 60
Rocker Ratio: 1.6

If valves have to match stock +.005 like the rule book states, then neither of these heads listed as SS replacement heads in the Stock Car Classification Guide can be used without basically remanufacturing them down to factory specs. Why would NHRA approve heads that come either supplied or ready for valves that are too big?

Some posters on this forum make building for stock or super stock way too complicated. I refuse to be deterred.

Dale

Chris1529 I have so much money under my hood I can't fit my engine.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

You are correct and like I said before, there are no off-the-shelf bolt on parts for the class.

They approved the specific replacement heads because the rules allows you to replace the valve seats in both Stock and Super Stock classes. The rules are very clear that the cylinder heads must maintain stock head and stem size. The spec applies to the combustion chamber size too.

It's not complicated as long as you follow the rules and not subject to interpretation.

Re: Choosing a Manifold:SBF
 

Dale,

Don't give up and/or get discouraged. If it was me, I would put it together with the parts you have and start thrashing. It's usually a long and tedious battle to get the combination working so you have plenty to deal with for now. As you start getting within index range, bite the bullet and switch the components over to legal stuff. The 302 combination that you are looking at is as good as any Windsor out there so it's plenty viable. We don't have such a huge car count in SS that we don't want to discourage new cars being built. If you have questions about rules, Email to Dave Schaffel, he's a good guy and will help you clarify things.

Jim