Changes?
 

Check this out. Looks like drag Racing isn't the only venue that is searching for $$$. Notice it is all about "Fan Experience"
http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jou...rchandise.aspx

Please read carefully and don't put too much "Between the lines"

Re: Changes?
 

They assume they'll sell more merchandise with it on a rack or table instead of at a trailer... instead of working to reestablish a dynamic bond between the fan and the car/driver. If the fans don't care about the car/driver, they're not going to buy a shirt regardless of how it is displayed.

Re: Changes?
 

No one wants to give $20+ for a t-shirt, no matter who is on it. NHRA wants a huge cut off of everything sold. It's called greed. They take ALL the cream, and they wonder why no one wants to milk the damned cow for them any more.

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I hate to say it but this plague seems to be pretty much across all forms of Pro racing. The major sanctioning bodies trying to figure out how to keep the seats filled and money being brought into the venue to be spent. I went to a couple of major racing kart events here. Their attracting the local racing crowd with reasonable entry fees typically $10.00 gate. The racers gate fee is usually $75.00 to $140.00 which is workable. The higher fee usually brings a class winner $800.00 to 1,800.00 depending on the event. Yes. these guys are a very small type operation but they have people watching & can get racers in the gate to put on the show!!!!! Hummm!!!!! Just my .02

Pat Collins

Re: Changes?
 

Pat,
I think that is called Grass Roots support. That is what put all of these organizations on the map and there are signs all around that they have forgotten it. At one time the good old working man could afford to attend and have a good time with his family & friends without skipping his house payment. (OH! More Problems) Now he keeps his house and watches on a big screen then orders his souvenirs on line. No wonder the seats are empty.

Re: Changes?
 

Bill France Sr was interviewed by a well known automotive writer and I quote:" I don't care how much TV will offer us for our broadcasting rights, what we count on days in and days out are the fans sitting in our seats, we care about them, because they made us who we are."

Re: Changes?
 

If you believe that I have some beach side property in Orlando.

Re: Changes?
 

Since France Sr passed it has been a different game played. The focus has been lost in many racing venues. It is the seats being full at ALL events that lets you know you have the right mix. If not you need to re wobble things until you get the balance back. Like Adger mentioned Bubba has no reason to leave his Kumfy chair & Big Screen. You need to inspire them to leave the house and see things LIVE!!!!!!!!!! Like the King said tonight on TV Its The Noise & Smells of Racin that brings them home to the track. Gotta Luv Petty!!!

Pat Collins

Re: Changes?
 

You cannot charge people what NHRA and NASCAR want to charge. It simply won't work. The tickets are high, the concessions are high and they are not good, and the memorabilia is outrageous. They are not even close to being competitive for the entertainment dollar.

I dearly love this sport, to the point of doing fiscally stupid things to stay in it. But I won't pay what they charge just to spectate.

There is nothing wrong with profit, profit is a good thing, and it inspires businesses, and keeps them viable. But NHRA and NASCAR are killing motorsports with greed. They drive off the live spectators with price gouging, and then NHRA drives off the TV audience with their ESPN deal. All of which drives off sponsors. Half the pro fields are hanging on by their fingernails and going broke doing it.

Re: Changes?
 

Both NASCAR and NHRA have just plain forgotten the fans. Notice during TV coverage they hardly ever show the stands, which are hardly full for any event. The money comes from TV. Ten years ago there was a major increase in popularity, lot of 'newbie' fans, and of course ticket prices got raised. However, the economy went south, the fad passed, and attendance has dwindled. But ticket prices have not come down, and will not come down, a lot of the 'old' loyal fans can't afford the higher prices. The sanctioning bodies have no interest in having fans in the stands. Shame on them.

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Its the ECONOMY!! (or lack of it) I keep reading that Fans can't afford the NHRA prices - yet it's cheaper to attend a full day race than to attend a 3 hour Pro Football, Baseball Hockey or Basketball game. The working man (FAN) is still not recovering $ even if the Stock Market is at a high level. He is the guy who filled the seats several years ago. Until he starts making more money he can't spend it! On anything except food, gas and housing!! If you think NHRA prices are high - look at the F1 website - tickets range from $675 down to $100. with another $100 for parking! And they are SOLD OUT! I guess the Euro economy is a lot better than the USA!

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I'll have to disagree. While the economy is not great, people are spending more money on other forms of entertainment.

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In my opinion there is just too many ways to spend your entertainment dollars today. I have friends and grandkids who when ask have no desire to attend the races.Their dollars are better spent at amusement parks, local forms of gaming ,and certainly BETTER food at a lot less $$$.
If we do not get the kids interested in this sport it will die a slow death as us seniors also die a slow death.Part of it is money of course but its hard to deny with video games and computer junk for almost free ,how can we compete?
When most drag racing sites are full of people bitching and moaning about everything under the sun its hard to attract new fans. Don't take this wrong but how these new fans are handled at the races determines their perspective of the sport. Of course I could be wrong ,I frequently am.

Re: Changes?
 

I totally agree with this quote from Alan. "I'll have to disagree. While the economy is not great, people are spending more money on other forms of entertainment."
Drag racing has become a poor form of entertainment. In the 70's I was a track owner I saw the spectators drop with the introduction of Bracket Racing & the demise of local level Class Racing. Bracket racing is in place for the benefit of the racer, not the spectator. At Hallsville and I-20 we tried to slow that spectator loss by the introduction of our own "Street Modified" classes. Loosely based on Lbs per Cu in classes with minimal spots showing on the tree.
The Heads up S/G came about and was an instant hit with both racers and spectators. Then the sanctioning bodies got into the money grab with "allowed" electronics and the off the line "Dead Throttle" killed the heads up effect for the spectators. So as I see it we have done a real good job making Drag Racing rules for the racers benefit and running the spectators to other venues.

Re: Changes?
 

I think Adger nailed it. Bracket racing came along, and that is where the slower class racer guys went, instead of learning more and working harder. Down went the car counts.

Then we got this bogus-slow index deal. A sharp guy can make a legal street car run many of them. They need another half second or more whacked off where they are now. Who, sitting in the stands, wants to hear throttle wop wops & see brake lights? Who, sitting in the stands, wants to hear somebody lost because they went too fast? Makes no sense to most people. It's like watching bracket racing. People don't consider that racing. It has ruined Stock & Super Stock. IMHO, the CIC system would be much better than running too quick. It would racing. Being fast would mean something again. The AHFS could be adapted to work with that.

As it is, the stands empty when we are called up. Just my thoughts, but I'm old, so.....

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You took the words right out of my mouth. I am far from being cheap. But I don't like feeling like I am getting bent over. The last NHRA national event I went to I went into the Nitro mall to look around. t shirts were $25.00 make them $15.00 and more people will buy them.

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I live in NJ and for the last 20 years or more I have been going to the E town National event on Fri Sat and Sun. This year I only went on Sunday. and I got a free ticket from a friend of mine. I just could not see spending all that money for 3 days at the races. on top of the price of the ticket's the food and drink's are way out of hand. as long as the NHRA keep the bean counter's they have working for them thing's will keep going the way they are.

Re: Changes?
 

Then we got this bogus-slow index deal. A sharp guy can make a legal street car run many of them. They need another half second or more whacked off where they are now. Who, sitting in the stands, wants to hear throttle wop wops & see brake lights? Who, sitting in the stands, wants to hear somebody lost because they went too fast? Makes no sense to most people. It's like watching bracket racing. People don't consider that racing. It has ruined Stock & Super Stock. IMHO, the CIC system would be much better than running too quick. It would racing. Being fast would mean something again. The AHFS could be adapted to work with that.
,aybe we can just run everybody heads up and become Pro Stock lol oh wait that happened once jk I dont think people run out of the stands because of the format of S or S/s but I think they dont have a clue of whats going on or theyre completely hooked of flaming lawndarts and the fuel they burn. While walking the pits at the cavalcade(Div 3 race at Norwalk I saw plenty of folks walking the pits and crowding around the Stockers and asking ?s and just being interested in them and actually watching them pull wheelstands without hood scoopes and big tires the crowd seemed to love them even though it was techincally bracket racing...... I think if the National Event crowd were actually exposed to the Sportsman ranks instead of being ran at 8 in the morning parked in the back and when they are on the track announcers screaming go check out the nitro pits etc theyre would be more interest. I usually go to the Norwalk Nats on Sunday and usually theyres always a few folks that ask us hey when are the doorslammers coming out? and we say eventually and only 8 of em run they are usually disapointed and I think unfair exposure to the pros are why theyres not as much interest in class racing and If the powers at be wouldnt waste oppurtunities to expand the(REST) of the sport instead of pushing sponsors and sucking drag racing dry it would create more sportsman fans.I wish instead of running Class during the mid week at indy it would be run during primtime friday or saturday night and I also wish they would run class at a few more national and Divisional events. just my 2 cents that aint worth anything

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People come around and look at my car all the time. I don't kid myself into thinking it is even 1% of the people there.
I don't see how the CIC deal Comp runs under is anything like Pro Stock. That makes no sense.

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I wasnt being serious......LOL I didnt really wanna give my opinion but that would kill the smaller budget guys as it would make it a 100& performance based class and if you have a higher budget with more money to go faster you would win and eventually dominate and eventually kill off the little guy and as you see as much as I hate it comp numbers are dwindling down to nothing. I dont really see whats wrong with current format as if you like bracket racing you can focus on the bracket race and if you like heads up then running class fits you why do we need to change it whats not broke?and with the CIC the blown cars would have an incredible advantage ofer NA cars.

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I don't imagine "bracket racers" think there is anything wrong like it is. Any old thing will run under the index like it is now. You don't have to know anything to make one do it. They have really dumbed it down.

Years ago I won points races running a tenth off the national record. Everybody ran flat out all weekend. That looked like racing, and not surprisingly we put quit a few people in the stands. That made more money for the race tracks. Ever look in the stands at these LODRS shows now? About as many as come to watch bracket races. I don't think it has a thing to do with the spectators "understanding sportsman racing". I, and others, have explained dialing, and breaking out, to people. Most will tell you they think it is just dumb losing due to running too fast. To the vast majority of people, racing is trying to get there first. Nothing else makes sense to them. You can explain all you want, they don't "get it" or care to watch it.

You do understand the CIC index corrections, right? You can lower your index the rest of that race, or run far enough under it is your new index permanently.
You don't think everybody running harder would cause the new cars to have to run harder to win rounds and get some index & HP corrections?

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Yes I do understand it as I watch Competition Eliminator as much as I watch Stock and one of the few that understand it. Just as most folks are I am a little hesitant to change....

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I was at Daytona this weekend for the Coke Zero 400. I was amazed at the amount of construction taking place at the speedway. They are spending millions of dollars on the place adding a huge amount of seating, concessions and restrooms. Escalators to get to the upper seating. Its hard to believe that they adding more seats when they cant fill the seats they have now. I guess they are planning for the future when the economy picks up and we have more disposable cash. Nascar is crazy expensive for what you get in entertainment value. You can go to NHRA national event for the whole weekend for what it costs for an afternoon at the Nascar track.
Cost dictates everything in racing. If you make it more difficult it will only hurt the already dwindling car counts. we as racers need to do everything we can to help the new blood get excited about our sport.

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The people I've exposed to racing simply are not interested enough to ever get involved or interested enough to pay to attend an event. They have about a 2hr interest window and then there interest is gone. I've also done a good job of explaining classes and why the classes are run the way they are, and have exposed them to Pro, Sportsman, and Outlaw racing. They simply aren't hooked enough to attend any of those events. In addition, when I explain the costs involved to race at these events and then further discuss the costs of the trailers and rigs people haul with, they definitely can't validate that kind of expense. At the end of the day, racing really is not an average mans game anymore unless your bracket racing or racing 4-6 events a year like local outlaw racers.

Re: Changes?
 

You're more than welcome to go run Comp. Don't portend to destroy two eliminators for the sake of the "fans" who don't understand or care for Comp any more than S/SS.

I'm a bracket racer. I've advocated for a number of things over the years to put more emphasis on performance, but the majority of class racers don't want change. If you have no cars, you don't have a race.

That's great. NASCAR looked a lot different years ago, too. We cannot unlearn what has been learned. You don't have flat out racing even in a CIC format anymore.

Yes. The little guy wouldn't last long enough. You complain about the cost just to get to the race track, but want everyone else to compete in a cubic dollars format? Even looking at the Quick 32 CIC races at the Class Nationals, only a handful of the top 32 (let alone the dozens and dozens of slower qualified cars) realistically have any shot at winning. Making S/SS racing a CIC format would lose over half the field instantly, and many more would quickly dwindle away. You think it's a "factory race car" show *now*! No cars, no money, no race.

Re: Changes?
 

[quote=Michael Beard;437132]You're more than welcome to go run Comp. Don't portend to destroy two eliminators for the sake of the "fans" who don't understand or care for Comp any more than S/SS. [QUOTE]

If I could afford it, I would run Comp. I don't have that kind of money.
Super Stock is one eliminator. I have no interest in how Stock is run.


With CIC, first car to the finish line wins. Spectators understand that.

What is a "little guy" in SS? What is a "big guy"? I'm semi-retired 70+ year old guy, and build my own engines. I have no crew, most always by myself . I'm a "little guy", right?

Re: Changes?
 

I took a tour of Daytona Speedway last fall. They said they are going to close the back stretch seating and have seating only on the one side when completed.

It's all bang for your buck. They are pricing themselves out of peoples reach. From the local bracket race to a national event make the prices where a person can afford to go. Make it the most affordable entertainment there is.

Bracket racing isn't that hard to follow. Most of us aren't brain surgeons or rocket scientists and we understand how it works. Make it affordable and promote it through the media. Watching the NHRA on ESPN if it isn't nitro its no big deal.

Jeff

Re: Changes?
 

[QUOTE] Bracket racing isn't that hard to follow. Most of us aren't brain surgeons or rocket scientists and we understand how it works. Make it affordable and promote it through the media. Watching the NHRA on ESPN if it isn't nitro its no big deal.[QUOTE]

Jeff, it is not hard to understand, just boring to watch. Pretty much nobody cares to watch us. That makes it harder for track operators to make any money running us when they can't sell tickets to anybody to sit in the stands.

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I agree and running S and S/S before anyone gets there isnt helping the cause either...........

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I think the fans are not fleeced any worse than at other sporting events, hockey and football games and music concerts all gouge fans worse. But as car enthusiasts we may not be used to that. Most of the people responding to my parts ads on Craigslist seem to think all prices are still at 1960's levels and i'm sure would balk at $20 to get in to a race never mind $60.

Besides the ticket prices there is still everything else costing more to leave less spending money.

Re: Changes?
 

A couple years at Indy, my dad and I showed up at 8:00 AM on Wednesday, just before the 1st round of Stock qualifying. We were told that we had to wait until 9:00 or 10:00 AM (whenever it was that the gate was scheduled to open). :confused:

I was never really a Whit Bazemore fan, but he nailed it in that Comp Plus article from a few months back. When I was younger, people looked forward to Force/Hofmann, Force/Cruz, WJ/Geoffrion, etc....
These days, who really cares who wins or who's racing who?

The ticket prices aren't necessarily horrible, but for Friday/Saturday, you're paying $50-$60 just to watch QUALIFYING! And if it's a three day national event and you like S/SS, that means you're paying $50-$60 to watch them! That's not including a reserved seat, which you need to sit anywhere on the track, even though the stands are barely 2/3rds full even when the Nitro cars are running.

Re: Changes?
 

This is probably NASCARS first response to the Race Team Owners announcing recently they are "organizing". Forming a union like our "PRO" in NHRA. ( Now the turf (money) battles begin! ) - JB-