Divisional spectator attendance?
 

After returning from a 12 year hiatus from racing one thing stands out as very different. Almost no spectators in the stands. Literally a few dozen. Wow. I've been reading about how bad it is but didn't really hit me till I saw it. How are we going to get spectators in the stands? The top dragster/top sportsman classes didn't bring em. The nitro Harley's didn't bring em.

One place stands out... Norwalk. Whatever Bader is doing is working that's for sure. I'm concerned how much longer our sportsman venue is going to survive with essentially zero spectator revenue.

Are racer and crew entries alone enough to cover the costs for nhra divisionals??

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Nobody wants to watch bracket racing. That is all top sportsman and top dragster are doing also.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Big crowd here at New England for the divisional race. Probably around 5,000 in the stands and there were no free tickets. They are staying in the stands for Top Dragster and Top Sportsman. Also have jets, nostalgia funny cars and wheelstanders, plus fireworks.

Jim

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Lots of bored people in New England? LOL

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

WOW, 5,000 in the stands? Gotta be a worlds record for a Divisional. Hope it's accurate, most encouraging thing I've heard lately for Sportsman Racing!

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Jim that's good to hear. I'm sittin in the stands at Columbus right now and it's a ghost town. Maple grove had some folks, not too bad. Leb valley and Columbus are sad.

Not to mention Columbus looks a bit, shall we say.. long of tooth. Looks like they are cutting back on the facility maintenance budget that's for sure.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Tonight at New England Lucas Oil Series ...............

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Anyone who makes money by putting people in the stands will tell you you can't do a head count by looking at the stands from the front. Walk around back and look through the stands. That will show you all the daylight spaces vs body spaces.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

What gets me is the majority of the people who whine on internet boards about the high cost of national events (as spectators) and dealing with the nitro circus will not go across the street to see a divisional race. To me a divisional is the best bang for the buck anywhere.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

I agree

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Traditionally, drag racing has been all about fans watching the starting line action. With bracket, .90 index, and even class racing, the race is at the finish. Of course, it is still won and lost at the starting line but with a handicapped start how can a spectator tell except to look at a reaction time on the display? If the spectators were at the finish line and saw what .002 margin of victory looks like, it may be more exciting to them. (especially the slow stockers I like to watch)

How many tracks have stands at the finish line? Maybe just a frequent announcement by the track to encourage fans to move to the finish line area and they would see the close racing. Watching burnouts and wheelstands can get old as a spectator. Yeah, part of the show, but I think that is more for the TF/FC/PS teams.

There MAY be some insurance issues here, I don't know.

Just a different way to look at the issue. If drag racers want fans to pay for bigger purses, it has to be entertaining to the fans.

The only place I think it is worse is autocrossing, another form of class racing. NOBODY comes out to watch that, let alone pay to watch. .002 MOV in autox is completely undetectable and if the driver is really good and smooth, the car is boring to watch. Of course in autox, there is no pursuit of a purse, just pay your money, make your runs and see who wins at the end.

So, consider this. If the track didn't have to pay a purse, how much would your entry fee be? half, a third? Does that even matter compared to the other costs?

How many people are actually MAKING MONEY racing (not making money off racing)? I HAVE made money racing at a few events, but the total cost is nowhere close to breaking even. I race for the fun and the camaraderie. I guess I'm not a "serious" racer.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Several things are hurting attendance.

Sadly, this country no longer has a large car culture as it once had. You'd be surprised how many people working in the offices of major automotive corporations either use public transportation, or ride bicycles to work. That is a horrible thing for the car culture. The car is no longer the source of pride it once was, nor the object of affection. For most, it is merely a conveyance.

The economy has a large effect. One big part of this is how hard different forms of entertainment compete for business. There was a time when the average person could afford to go out to eat, go to a movie, and go watch a couple of days of racing, and not burn his entire paycheck. This is no longer the case.

Finally, much of the group that "leads" our sport, especially with regard to putting on a race and promoting it, are doing a poor job. Our sport is, in most cases, doing a terrible job of competing for the entertainment dollars of potential fans. From lack of promotion and advertising, to poor scheduling, and right down to putting on a weak show, they're doing nothing to give fans a reason to show up. There are a few exceptions, but as a rule, they're just not getting the job done.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Locally, more come to watch the "10.5 heads up " shows, than points races. Nobody watches the weekly bracket races.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Willing to bet that most of those fans at New England came for the Sat. Night show
.....and drove in with a car or truck NOT made by the original "Big-3" automakers...

Sadly...I think the only way you'll put people in the stands at Divisionals is to combine
with a bit of a show...like they did there.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Maple Grove had a fairly big crowd of spectators at the Division race in May.

$25 per car no matter how many people in it.

Alcohol cars and some pretty lame jet cars that were the worst I've ever seen.....and Fireworks after that.

Numidia also gets a lot of spectators for Fireworks.....but these are areas out in the countryside where there is not much going on.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

The cashier at the WaWa near Atco told me that when they held the Honda Show, there was a line to get into her store!!
The youngsters like the tuners
Its what they drive.


Mike
A114 P/SA

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

One of the things that could help.. When they get to the round robin portion of the show... Run a clock or something.. Having 15 or more minutes between runs grinds things to a halt... At least that is how it seemed today.. Not only myself, but some of my fellow photogs felt the same way.. slowing the show down, unless there is an obvious thing such as an accident or an oil down... Doesn't help keep peoples attention..

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

15 minutes between rounds is needed, you build a 20,000 dallar super stock engine and see if you can turn around any faster.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

What turns me off.......throttle stop cars.! A few of those get BORING quick !!
Comp isn't like it used to be....the diggers and altereds have given wat to "junior" pro stockers.......Now I might make one divisional a year and usually at Noble...

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Very well said Alan. It's bang for the buck and there are a lot of choices anymore.

Jeff

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

You and your fellow photographers evidently do not have a $30,000, 9,000 RPM big block Super Stock engine that requires cooling, fueling, and maintenance between rounds, not to mention charging the batteries.

Honestly, 15 minutes is not enough to even turn the stocker around.

A heads up run will take even longer.

It's about that hard for a fast Super class car as well.


Now, if you want to talk about a little better scheduling and organization, so that the classes can be separated a little and keep the time between passes down some, sure. But punishing expensive equipment is not a viable option.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

they defiantly need to do something to keep things moving.. again you cant account for accidents/oil downs whatever... spacing the classes would be nice for all.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

If they would spend a few extra bucks and bring in some match races with some fuel altereds and some jet cars to fill in sometime to allow everyone to get their equipment cooled down it would go along way...JMO

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

They already normally have Top Sportsman, Top Dragster, not to mention the slop alcohol drippers (yeah, there are a few Top Alcohol guys who consistently make clean passes, that comment was not directed at you), so they have some cars putting on a "show".

Asking track owners to buy in jet cars and other exhibition stuff is cutting into an already small budget. It's also an expensive band aid, not a real solution. Most people also prefer not to run behind the kerosene foggers. And as soon as the new wears off those exhibition cars, they'll have to buy in something else to take their place.

The solution is a better run show, which will draw both more racers and more spectators. Then promote it better.

Without buying in other acts, they can also put on gambler's races and combo races, they could have Top Stock and Top Super Stock as well.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Quote from above: Also have jets, nostalgia funny cars and wheelstanders, plus fireworks

There's your 5000 people right there. It is NO WAY from NHRA Sportsman racing believe me!

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

When I was younger (many moons ago), one thing everyone seemed to enjoy (and look forward to) was 'match racing.'

When Bill 'da Grump' Jenkins would come to my local track (Edgewater, Cincy, OH) to race Sox and Martin or when the 'Chi-Town Hustler' would show up to race the 'Blue Max' people would get to the track at 1:00pm in the afternoon, just to see these guys roll-in and set up. I know I did.

Has NHRA handcuffed the pros with so many national events, they can never 'match race' anymore? Would something like this spice-up a Divisional and attract fans?

I know I miss it. Just sayin'....

Don

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Alan you are correct on all three counts. This past weekend's LDRS Points Meet at Columbus was pitiful in it's execution, in the condition of the facility, and the so called "show" that drew about 5 people. It makes it all the more poignant after attending the recent LDRS at Norwalk. I admit Summit Motorsports Park is an anomaly among drag strip facilities. But that doesn't excuse the National Trails staff from grass not being mowed in the pit areas (that get used every year the points meet is held here), pot holes in the middle of return roads deep enough to bend a wheel, or just a general indifference to their CUSTOMERS. The prevailing attitude seems to be "we got the track surface in great shape, what else do you need?" As I said, pitiful.
I found this promo on Norwalk's Facebook page (I think) awhile back.. It speaks volumes of how these folks continue to successfully garner support for their track. Go to their website www.summitmotorsportspark.com and check out the updated version. Sounds like some folks over 55 with race cars are going to have a lot of fun September 27-28th in northern Ohio. Hell, perhaps all of us fossils with Stock/Superstockers should ask for our own eliminator at this race. What say you Mr. Bader? LOL

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

I love going to the Divisional 1 races, my suggestion since there is no fan except us old timers, why not make it free, charge $10 bucks for parking, and make it on you food and beer sales, where can you go and be entertained all day, see some great action for such a low cost. I was at a Camping KOA where they once had many full-time resident and now they have hardly anyone in their parks, same problem there, overcharging their full-time tenants at $3.500 for the season, instead of lowering their prices and having the place full bringing in income they're wondering what happened? Business 101 if your charge too much for your goods and no ones buys them, it means you're too expensive and not competitive. Why not allow tuners at Divisional's, they would bring a large crowd of young people to the stands, no reason not to have them at this level, just imagine the new blood coming into our sport, forget the Unleash program NHRA tried to institute, it was just window dressing. I talked to Div 1Director Lang about allowing a Showroom stock class at divisional(for new Cars) there's is no new idea coming from Glendora. Remember that Honda Civics are our Camaro's and 55,56,57 Chev of our times so make room for them or our sport will die with us Baby Boomers. Claude Ruel

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

I remember back when I was a drag racing official, we had over 15,000 people show up for our points meet, this was in the late 90's.
Darrell Zimmerman said no way, you'll maybe get a thousand people, if your luck. To have this it was $10,000 plus NHRA gets the gate fees, the drag racer fees...only money you make are from your food sale and gifts.
PS we got them back at there own game....we gave out over 10,000 free tickets, and if they buy a bottle water for a buck...$$$ for us.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

There is no need for more classes at LODRS races.

Have the facility, especially the track, in great shape.

Treat the racers and the spectators like you want to be treated, remember they are paying customers.

Run the program in a well organized, well thought out, orderly fashion.

Charge reasonable prices.

Do a decent job promoting and advertising.

That's it.

It isn't nuclear physics, or brain surgery, it is simply common sense and good business sense.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why people want to make this into something it isn't.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

The big crowds we drew in the 1960s was due in part to Top Fuel Dragsters, Top Gas Dragsters, Funny Cars when they came along, and Pro Stock ran at divisional points raced. Stock & Super Stock didn't have brake lights at the finish line, and Modified Eliminator was popular. It's just frighin bracket racing now, unless your lucky enough to get a heads up. Nobody wants to watch bracket racing.

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Because Alan, as Larry Morgan has said, "You can't fix stupid"

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

maybe some "rivalries" and promote the hell out of 'em would help.

this "PC" crap of not wanting to offend anyone due to sponsorship ain't working...
look at all the "reality" shows on TV..

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Why must we fix the lack of buts in the seats, because if the owner makes more money not having anyone at his track, he'll choose to close it. CR

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

everyone needs to be part of the promotion team.. the track, and the racers..

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

* Maybe the other track owners should go to the Bill Bader's system of Drag-Racing & see why he's So Successful ? He & his son keep doing it year after year, they have a system that work's .. Both Racer's & Fan's and Sponsor's Love his track and his approach to Drag-Racing ... They are very interested in what the Racer's think & want people coming back again ...
They are very good Business people, keep your Customer's & Fan's happy &
they will keep coming back . Screw them & they will find another place to spend their money ... I think that's why most Drag-Racing Track's & Group's
are suffering today & that's why People have Stopped coming ? The Prices are Up & Service + Satisfaction Value's are Down ... Sound's like a bad
Dream , but that's what happens in business everyday ? Time will tell & it makes Stock - S/S Combo Races look even better than before !!! This is why Racer's need to be more supportive to Races like Michael Beard put on this year . I think that's where we maybe headed in the future, think about it?

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

To put my thought in on this subject I think we definitely need to put more of an effort into promoting the sport on a divisional level. A few years back I sent off an e-mail to a very high-up in the divisional office. I volunteered my time since I was going to college for marketing to find ways to promote the divisional events using this as part of an internship. At the time we were going to about 5 D1 events a year (Missing VMP and LVD) and the spectator attendance was pitiful to say the least except Epping. At the time PC Richards and Sons has graciously stepped up and was giving away tickets at the local stores to these events so I went to a PC Richards store in my area to see about getting some. I didn't ask around I just figured that this would be something easily accessible, when I got there I searched high and low and could not find them anywhere. Now I worked in corporate life of restaurants for a long time and know how it is, you have soo much on your plate running a store the last thing you want to do is have to market a drag race also on top of that.

My idea to them was to have Gary, Pat, Paul and the boys and maybe a few other racers bring their cars out to a few locations before the divisional events within a 30 mile radius of the track and give away free carload passes and actually show people what they are going to see rather then just throwing something in a bag that more or less someone if just going to throw out because they are too excited to play with their new TV or PS4. Anyone knows if some little kids see a racecar more or less they want to sit in it or take a picture and will beg their Mom and Dad to go see the racecars on the weekend. Plus PC Richards has some very stock looking cars that run fast that could almost be just like your everyday daily driver that the parents could get into. Anyways my idea was pretty much shot down and was never brought up again but, to be honest it is quite sad to see some of these tracks and attendance. I'm not saying bring in Nitro Cars and Pro Stocks because once you add them unless 10,000 people are showing up you are losing cash right there for the track. To be honest anytime you add Alky & a Small Show you lose money because the crews get in free and I think the purse might be on the track (Don't hold me against that). I mean the free carload passes are cool but, I rarely ever hear about them being handed out. Jack will come on here and say he has a pile of them but, to be honest 90% of us are already going to the event. We need to his markets that people don't know about it. Atco does a great thing at the National Opens where they invite students from Penco Tech to come down and watch. I saw 4 school buses roll into an event that might draw 20 people if that for spectators and they had about 150 kids in the stands for an Open.

Just my thoughts

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

The track or division should do this. Instead of racers stacking at the track days ahead of time to get that "good" pit spot. The car show racers would get "Primo" pit spots. That way they would be easy to find. Right now it's "out of sight, out of mind". Stock/Super Stock is like a car show except they really run.

Jeff

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

I think alot depends on where the race is being held first of all.
Lets use Englishtown for an example. Alot of things to do in Nj/NY areas.
You have major league baseball, you have Great Adventure, Beaches, just to
name a few things to do.
It doesn't seem like the people that use to go to watch do not go anymore,
for whatever reason. Maybe people lost interest or just do other things now.
I know P.C. Richards gives away free tickets for the Englishtown Div. for Saturday
The place is never packed with spectators for this race, but loads of people
will go to Wed nite Night of Thrills show that they have there every year.

Just my 2 cents

Re: Divisional spectator attendance?
 

Example!!! I have offered to pay and host one or several of the sports writers for the 3rd largest newspaper in Illinois at any race divisional /open/weds nite test n tune/weekly bracket racing at Rt 66 raceway in Joliet, Ill.--- their reply (newspaper)is we (reporters) cannot accept any type of "gratuity" from anyone other than the stadium/team etc it causes all kinds of financial/legal problems-- I have tried to get Rt 66 to provide "free" passes to the reporters and I would/will meet the reporter at the track, "escort" the reporters around the pits,staging area and up around the starting line areas and try to explain what is going on how the race functions purpose of a burnout etc. the different types of cars (Comp/Stock/Super Stock/Bracket cars/ etc.) and the equipment or modifications to the different cars that put them into the classes they are in. My intention for doing this would be that just maybe the reporter will write a story about his/her experiences and why it might be a great form of entetainment for the readers. Guess what??? NO REPLY FROM RT 66 !!!!!!! Not a drop dead/not interested/go to hell nothing NO RESPONSE from the track whatsoever---Now if you can give a FREE pass that essentially costs you ZERO and you are going to get a newspaper article with pictures published in a paper that has a daily circulation of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of papers for FREE,you gotta be some kind of dummy not to do it ---You can't buy advertising space for that for less than SEVERAL thousands of dollars for that kind of space---I don't know what it takes I'm out of ideas!!!!! FED 387